First time protoype route building - Observations and Questions

ctclark1

Member
(I know it doesn't show up, so let me just specify first, this is in TRS2006)

I apologize for my novel, just recounting what I've managed to pull off in the course of 12 hours sitting in front of Trainz...

So I've built a couple routes for kicks in the past but I always ended up going overboard and somehow ending up very unrealistic despite my best attempts, so I finally decided to bite the bullet and try a proto route instead. I figured I'd try something small first, even if the finished product wouldn't be very "exciting", so I'm building the Arcade & Attica, a shortline nearby where I grew up. My first hurdle was getting the DEM/TIGER into Trainz.

I found two tutorials, one at Virtual Railroader (http://www.virtualrailroader.com/DEM-Trainz.pdf) and the Wewain tutorial (http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.ance...rrainGeneration/Computer-generatedTerrain.htm)
They were both very helpful in conjunction with each other, but there were things I wouldn't have known from just reading one. (VR only mentions HOG, nothing about getting it, WW only shows 2004, etc...)
After a little searching I was able to find the three DEM maps I needed on GIS Data Depot and get them merged and exported (exported the entire image per WW, no cropping as VR showed). Then, after about an hour of searching and pulling my hair out trying to get the TIGER data into an image for export, I finally figured out that you need to "rebuild" the TIGER database in MicroDEM in order to get newly download data to show up (using the new MicroDEM, not one of the older versions where it was apparently easier).

That part done, it was fairly easy going about using HOG to get the ground file and then using CMP to replace the file on the route. Opening up the route again in Trainz, First thing I noticed was that the tiger data was only showing up on the minimap, not on the actual baseboards. No biggie I think to myself, I can make this work.

So I set about removing some of the extra baseboards (HOG's "filter" picked up a second railroad off to the side that is unrelated, and actually not there anymore, but that's not what counts)... Oops, with every baseboard I delete, a board's worth of TIGER image disappears elsewhere... Oh shoot, there's the autosave, so I close, replace the ground file with the other copy that I fortunately I had left backed up in the HOG folder, and reopen. OK, try this again, I start by laying down the railroad splines first. A bit rough, since there was only imagery on the minimap... Zoom way in on the minimap - Right click in map to center on a line, click to set a track spline, right click a little farther on the map, set another spline point, repeat... Some things need a little smoothing out, but I wanted to get them down. Done. Same with the roads, done. I'm beginning to understand Carpel Tunnel.

Then I decided to start painting the areas where the water is according to the TIGER data... No go, painting the ground has the same effect - my minimap's tiger imagery starts disappearing. Oops, fortunately it was in an area away from the RR... use a water spline instead just to get it down before I lose anymore imagery.

So that's roughly where I'm at right now before I decided it was time to let go of them mouse and get some food.

Hopefully some of these observations are still helpful to people nowadays that 2006 is slowly going away...

Couple questions too:
  1. Was there something I should've done differently to get the baseboards to show the TIGER data?
  2. Obviously TIGER and DEM data isn't perfect, so there are some very odd rises and dips in my current trackage. Some of them are easily explained by underpasses and bridges over water... How do you experienced surveyors go about determining proper grading of the track along the proto route?
  3. Is there data available for MicroDEM that I can use in the future if I can get the baseboards to show that is more along the lines of satellite imagery for building placement, etc? (I know there's a method on DLS that has 9 baseboards, but my understanding is that take a lot of time, I'm not that patient. ;))
If I can come up with the money I may consider getting 2010 soon, my biggest holdout other than the money is the uncertainty of how it will run on my computer (would that help with the ground files? Is that still possible in 2010?)
 
You need to install the HOG textures into Trainz. this would then "draw" them on the terrain.

I can't remember where they come from originally so please Bing or google them to find them.

Once they're installed, you'll be good to go from here.

Now on deleting tiles...

That annoying problem of clicking on the wrong one really ruins the map. I've done that more than once. I suggest saving many times as you click and successfully remove the correct tiles. Now I have found that if you click with your right mouse first, in the mini-map on the tile you want to remove, then use the left-button to erase the board, it seems to ensure the right baseboard is removed.

There are problems with the old TIGER information, as you've found out already. The maps are not accurate and can be off by quite some meters. You probably saw water running up the side of mountains, and rail line running in riverbeds. In cases like this, I suggest looking at aerial photos to get an idea where things are for real.

Now an even better way to handle the DEM maps is to use TransDEM. One of our very own Trainz users, Geophil, has created this very nifty program. It is not freeware, like the method you are using now, but instead it is a payware at a very low cost. The program may cost around $35.00 or $38.00 at the most these days. It's in Europe, so the price is in Euros and gets converted to US dollars when you purchase.

http://www.rolandziegler.de/StreckeUndLandschaft/startseiteEngl.htm

When you use this really awesome program, you can import the downloaded DEMs right off of the national mapping server, lay your track splines over an overlayed image, and you have things pretty much in place and quite accurately so. The track may need a bit of tweaking, but it's good enough to get you in the right places. You can also trim the route before you import it, so there's not a lot of extra board trimming in Trainz Surveyor. This really saves a lot of time, and eliminates the risk of chopping the wrong baseboard.

Roland Ziegler (Geophil here), has some awesome tutorials and a nice forum setup for his program.

You will find that using this program will save you a ton of time with your project.

John
 
I'll second John's suggestion about using TransDEM - it will give you so close to 100% accuracy that it just doesn't matter.

That said though there are plenty of good routes still being built on HOG/TIGER bases. How happy you will be using that data though depends a bit on your temperament. I use HOG/TIGER data for USA routes, but my route building philosophy is that so long as the route WORKS like the real thing I'm happy with lots of compromise. I don't really care if I have a 1.2% grade where the prototype has a 1% grade, I don't care if the tracks a 50 meters - or 100 meters - south of where they should be. On my current route I just built a freeway/railroad overpass where there should be an underpass because it looked better upside-down the way the terrain worked out - I suspect the freeway was drawn on the TIGER data a couple of hundred meters from where it should be. If that sort of thing doesn't worry you either stick with HOG. If that sorta thing is gonna drive you nutz, get TransDEM...

Andy
 
I had researched TransDEM, but I wasn't sure how much into proto building I'd want to go if it was worth the $30+ for it...

As for deleting the tiles it wasn't that I was deleting the wrong tiles, I was deleting the ones I wanted to, but lets set an example, we'll say the south-west-most tile is tile (0,0)... If I deleted tile (20,10) suddenly the minimap overlay for tiles (11,12) (11,13) and (12,12) would disappear... The tiles were still there but suddenly I had no references on the minimap anymore. And it would just keep continuing with every tile deleted, or like I said when I tried painting the ground the minimap overlay would go bye bye... When I did finally clear the extra tiles after getting my splines laid down, the overlays disappeared faster than I was deleting tiles (I'd delete one tile and 2 or 3 overlays completely unrelated to the deleted tile would disappear)...

I'll see what I can find on the HOG textures, thanks. If I get fed up enough I'll support Geophil, but that'll delay my upgrade to 2010 (money's not exactly flowing freely here.)
 
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