DownLoadStation rule should be modified

[crankwhistle]

The DownLoadStation rule should be modified for the sake of the Trainz community.

Re thread: Auran, "You" have a problem ...

So the comments were made that the content creators that upload to the Auran DLS are not looking for payment, and, are making there contribution to the Trainz community so that map creators can improve there layouts to a much higher level of quality and finish.

I admire all the people that have done this already, and all the people that will do it in the coming future. You have a creative talent that is certainly appreciated.

However, there is a problem when it comes to the uploading a layout creation for the community when it contains some of these community made objects which were downloaded and without them may very well render them ordinary.

So Auran recieves all these artistic objects from the creators for the Trainz community to incorporate into there layouts to make them more enjoyable and would give them pride if there object was used.

Problem: Auran 'stops' you from including these objects with your map upload saying you don't own them so you can't include them.

So what does that do !

It discourages the community from downloading a map with dependencies which really is a pain to make it complete the way it was intended.

The creators have already given permission to use them as Auran has said, but Auran has them now and appears to be playing policeman by making the proccess more difficult than it needs to be.

It would be in the best interest of the Trainz community if Auran DLS would simplify this by letting these dependencies be included instead of creating a roadblock where it is not neccessary, then we would be more willing to download other layouts and an oppertuneity to see some of these fine creative objects which Auran has been given for free.

Auran should improve this for all users and creators.

Don't be such a controller and allow these freely given objects to be utilized freely by the Trainz community without you stepping in telling us we can't include them as if they were Aurans property, the creators have already given there permission - remember - also your makeing it more difficult for there work to be seen - now that's a shame- stop giveing us an unneccessary workload silly. See the light

 

[norfolksouthern37]

is this serious? why would you upload a file that already exists on the DLS to begin with? if your layout contains items that are on the DLS then you just upload the layout, not every object used in your layout. i think you miss the whole point of the Download Station....

 

[pommie]

I can't see the problem, if you used content on the DLS then they are already there, if you used content from a third party site then the creators have their own reasons for not uploading them to the DLS, and you have no right to presume that you can upload them, the content is not yours and you must respect the wishes of the creator, even if you disagree with them.
All you have to do is include a "read me" in the cdp with the information on where to get the missing objects.

Aurans stand on this is correct,

only the original creators have the right to upload their content to the DLS.

Cheers David

 

[martinvk]

To be generous, perhaps the OP comes from other sims where each route package contains every object included in that route. That's not how it works here. Here each route only contains a reference to the object. If you already have all the objects on your PC, then all you need is the route files, nothing else to download. Only if you don't have them yet do you get them from the DLS or elsewhere if that is where the creator(s) have placed them.

If that is not what the OP meant then I have it totally wrong. Is it the payware that he finds missing and wants available? Is it items on 3rd party sites that he doesn't want to go looking for?

 

[crankwhistle]

suggestion details

Thanks for responding norfolksouthern37,pommie and martinvk.

Yes, you are right I should explain a bit more accurately.

When you are at a point where you want to improve your creation skills the
best way is to see what everyone else is doing so you can learn with the help of other community members that have been kind enough to share there creative talents ( good Karma to you members ). As a group you can advance together more rapidly and the increments of ideas multiply, something that cannot be achieved on your own.

So you go to the DLS to see what is available and you find the layout section
which has a selection from which to choose from and of course they all have
different names and a brief discription about what they are, but you have no
idea what they truely are until it unfolds in front of you. There usually are
dependencies which of course are a step forward from the basic content that
you are accustomed to, and that again is a bonus of learning.

Now if these dependencies come from other sites or payware then there is
nothing you can do but go and get them yourself, and that pretty well makes
sense as we do not have any control over them.

Now if the dependencies are available on the community DLS then we do have access to them since the creators have given them freely so that they can be enjoyed by all community members ( good Karma to you members ).

So now there is a big pot of great content to choose from which has been
entrusted to Auran to allow free access to for the members to incorporate into there Trainz layouts. Great, AURANS product is enhanced and the members layouts are enhanced, you can't beat that.
Now when a member has created a layout and feels that they want to put it out there for the community they use the content manager to do so.

Content manager checks it and lists all the content that it won't include in
the upload, the red x list.

Now if the content in the 'upload' is built in content then there is no need
to upload that content since everyone will already have that, right, that
makes sense doesn't it, agreed.

Now if the content in the 'upload' is on the DLS and is in the big pot of
content that the creators have given freely for all members to use then it
would make more sense to include them in the 'upload' since chances are most members will not have them.

What are the 'disadvantages' by including them.
------------------------------------------------
It will make the CDP 'upload' larger in size, granted that obviously is true,
agreed.
How much larger would it be ? Depends on how 'many' dependencies and how large they would be individually.

Lets say the basic upload CDP is 20MB which 'does not' include basic built in
content or content from the members content creations in the big pot which is entrusted to AURAN to distribute to the members. Would that be a fair example. 20 MB would probably be quite a large Map.

Now lets go to extremes.

Basic CDP layout 20 MB Plus additional content from the big pot 50 MB.total 70 MB
So in the example I have allowed for 50 MB of members content creations from the big pot and it has ended up making the file size larger.So this would be the only disadvantage, would you agree ?

no wait,one more,it would take longer to download, how long would it take, how would it impact the network. nowadays a 70 MB file should not take very long, would you agree.

no wait,one more, it would take up more storage, true, but with hard drives
being in the tera bytes would that be an issue.

What are the 'Advantages' by including them.
------------------------------------------------
One stop shopping, you choose it, you download it, you import it and it is all
there to view in it's entireity, now how easy was that.
You are no longer on the network, you have accomplished your objective in one foul swoop and there you are examineing the complete work of art which creates a whole set of new ideas that gets your mind rolling in new creative
directions. The existing method wears you down, wasting time searching for more downloads which really isn't neccessary. By the time you get it all your
pooped, not to mention the addition traffic that impacts the network.

The existing method is like going to art gallery and picking a basic picture,
then going to the checkout, the person at the checkout says to complete the picture you need this tree, there you go, you need this man fishing, there you go, this continues on and on till you finally get the picture. You may not like that analogy but it is the best I can do at this time.

Now what is in it for AURAN ?

You have a library of complete works of art to supply to anyone that buys your products to gain access to, and would be a model for other sites to envy, and when word gets out how easy you have made it for the user to enjoy, attracting others has just got easier.
You will inevidabley be KING in the training world.

 

[WindWalkr]

Hi crankwhistle,

I think you're missing martinvk's point above. If the user downloaded a particular asset from the DLS, then they have no need to upload it again- it's already on the DLS. They can upload just their route and everyone is happy.

Unlike certain other sims, a downloaded route does not include any other content. It may depend on other content, in which case Trainz will automatically download those items for you as required.

kind regards,

chris

 

[narrowgauge]

You haven't mentioned what version you have. If it is anything from TRS2006 up, the CMP/CM3.2 will find and download all the content.

When a route is uploaded, any content that is not on the DLS generates an email to the creator advising him/her that the content has been used, and would he/she kindly upload it to the DLS. Of course that is where it breaks down if the creator decides to ignore the email. Normally I post a comment in the announcement thread advising where the missing content can be obtained.

This only happens on an upload, and has no effect on existing routes. I think that a better way would be for the DLS to generate a list of missing items together with the KUID and the email addresses so that the downloader can do his own searching. This list could be attached to the downloaded route.

Peter

 

[ColPrice2002]

Hi,

I think that a better way would be for the DLS to generate a list of missing items together with the KUID and the email addresses

Unfotunately, the DLS is not psychic - if an asset isn't on the DLS how can it know where it is?

I also find it fascinating that this thread started from someone "bumping" the "Auran you have a problem" thread (from 2007) with a problem about his PC not running Trainz...
It's one reason I dislke thread bumping..

Cheers,

Colin

 

[crankwhistle]

Thank you for your response. WindWalkr,narrowgauge
A little bit of my background.
I got started with your Sandbox Demo which was generous and smart. That certainly reeled me in which led me to purchasing TRS2006 which I found locally on the shelf, the product is certainly worth supporting, it supplied me with enough material to keep me busy for a while. Not to long ago I saw RailwayZ at Futureshop and felt I must have that. I did not find that the content was much different than the TRS2006 but the functionality appeared to be an improvement from the previous TRS2006 so something had been gained.
The Modular City I believe it was called was not the direction I was going at that time and I know it takes a long time to create this, and it is very well done. We tend to follow the current hunger that we have until it is fulfilled, I may very well find myself back there at a later date.
The layout has kept me busy, and has come to a grinding halt although it is by no meens finished to my satisfaction. I have returned to Futureshop actually looking for 2010 version but it has not materialized as of yet. I do not have the desire to make finacial transactions over the internet for obvious reasons even though there is software that is supposed to safeguard that, I am sure I am not alone regarding that subject. Unfortunately for people like me, and there is probably many of us, you will have to put stock on the shelves locally. I live in Surrey,British Columbia, if you want to direct me somewhere that would be a win/win for both of us.
Anyway now I am at your website hungry to see what others have accomplished to revitalize myself with there ideas and to assess wheather or not I should purchase a First Class Ticket, bearing in mind that if the internet must be used for payment then that would be a problem, I realize that there is PayPal but I have not been entised to research that avenue. I thought I would begin by downloading an object, I believe it was trees, the time was after midnight not sure exactly, the download was painful 4 or 5k speed and I
have high speed access. If I do a speed test on the internet I can get over a 20 MB test result on download. I went to the DLS yesterday and was reviewing what was available and clicked on details of a map that I was looking at only 10 minutes previously and you could see at the bottom of the screen that the page load was incrementing ever so slowly,the response was coming to a grinding halt, I returned to the forms and found other people having trouble signing in so I submited a short blurp so you would know that more of us were having problems. I returned today and my entry was not there, not really important, not sure what occured.

Yes I did get of topic here but I felt collectively it may be useful to you, I hope it is. As far as this topic goes I do not know what to say at this time.

As time goes on I find that my pursuit to advance is becoming less and less important. I send you this information so that it may be used constructively, I mean you no harm.

 

[narrowgauge]

Unfotunately, the DLS is not psychic - if an asset isn't on the DLS how can it know where it is?

It does not know where it is, but it does know who made it.

You forget that the DLS does know who made the content. It knows the creator KUID from the config file of the route therefore using Aurans records it knows the email address. That does work because I have had the advisory emails. Therefore it would be possible to create a list of KUIDs and addresses and including the name of the creator. Given that list the missing content could be found by contacting the creator.

I can see that the problem would be that some people dislike releasing their email address.

Peter

 

[ColPrice2002]

Hi Peter,

The DLS won't aways know - for example there have been some creators who have removed all their assets from the DLS - and their profiles.

Some creators have just paused their activities - the email's only as good as the last edit.

I do see your view - personally I'd much rather have one centralised source (downloads or info) than hunt the internet...

Cheers,

Colin

 

[martinvk]

This frantic hunt only happens when a route is downloaded that contains objects not on the DLS. If they are all on the DLS or built-in, there is no problem. Wasn't there an initiative to label routes that were 100% DLS or built-in? A drastic solution would be to ban a route from the DLS unless all of its content was also on the DLS or built-in. A reasonable solution would be for the route creator to include a readme file detailing the source of each object that is not on the DLS or built-in. As it is, everyone who downloads is left with a game of hind and seek.

 

[danny5]

DownLoadStation rule should be

I don't understand why everyone that has free ware don't upload there creation to the DLS.(now that the last three games has CMP to fine dependencies)
If they did that we would not need to look hi/low for dependencies they would all be on DLS.
Danny5

 

[sparky15]

Some people prefer to keep full control of their content. Putting content on the DLS they would loose control of it to some degree. Come September this all may get worse.

As far as how things are, I prefer it. When I download a route, I only download the map, textures and track. If it looks like something I would enjoy I go back and only download what I feel the route needs through the FTP. Trees I replace with Trunda or JVC, you get the idea. Got into this habit being on a dial up connection and never saw the real use of having 30GB of content, most of which I would never use for my own routes. No offense to any creators, that is just what I prefer to do.

The kuid system is a pain but it does have plenty of benefits. It keeps file sizes down by not requiring a re-download of everything. Why download a horn twelve times when you only need one instance of it for example.

Dave....

 

[4ndylloyd]

All,

There is a big point being missed here....server space costs money and if every route was uploaded with all of its dependancies included in the upload then we would end up with huge multiples of the same asset(s) on the DLS which just takes up server space un-necessarily.

Auran are already talking about removing older content so why would we want to make matters worse by taking even more of their servers than we need?