Do ordinary content makers have a place in trainz?

I'm just a below average creator, but I enjoy creating and when I do it, it's something for me or something that someone has requested that I make for them. Uploading to the DLS is just a little extra bonus for my fellow trainzers. If they like it, they'll download it and if not, then won't. That's what's so wonderful about this game and this community. There are some really great creators out there and I really admire their skill and expertise. I wish that I had half of the talent that many of you creators out there have. My content was really bad when I first started, but it's gotten a little better over time. We all have different interests and as long as we create what interests us, then this game will survive, prosper and progress.
Scripting is what makes a lot of the wonderful interactive industries work and I wish that I had the talent to script, but it's just beyond me, so if my content isn't up to standards because of it, then I'll just remain a mediocre creator and be happy with that.
 
Trainz started years ago with people with varying skills in content creation.
Free content made for others of varying quality, with no financial rewards.
So do ordinary content makers of varying skills, and content quality, say without bump mapping, LOD, High definition textures, etc have a place in uploading to DS for 2009 onwards. Many newcomers will only have 2009 and cm2.

Reading the various posts over time I am beginning to think, this type of content no longer appreciated and possibly no longer required by many for 2009 onwards.
I am not referring to myself as unlikely to upload further content to DS anyway as I am one of the "rubbishy" content makers as takes me all my time to try and work out the changing configurations for my own simple content. However any content I make is usable in different simulators.


B

In short - yes.

-Most creators started out simple and worked their way up. Have a look at your favourite creator's first attempts - there's a fair chance it was a simple building or a paintshed re-skin. There's a few notable exceptions to this, but starting simple and working up your skills is the most common way to go. Setting the bar too high for new creators might mean we get very few items created at all.
-Not every item is needed or relevant to the foreground of a scene. If it's over 100m away from the camera, no-one can tell if it's got bump-mapping, hi-res textures or any of the other goodies TS2009 supports. Many route builders (myself included) will welcome TS2009's increased frame rates so they can create more complex and detailed scenes with low-impact scenery, and still get better frame rates than with earlier versions. Imagine the view across a broad harbour, with rows of buildings running down to the waterfront...
-There's still plenty of folks running older versions of Trainz. There's no reason they should be shut out of new content if the item doesn't justify all the '09 bells & whistles.

On a personal note, I've found a lot of your items useful in the past Barry, and I'm using a number on my current route. I for one would appreciate more nautical items for Trainz, and so long as they are made correctly for TRS04, they should be good for everything since...

Paul
 
Hi Barry, just had a look on the DLS at your content. Looks great to me,(not just saying that cause am from Liverpool & live next to the Leeds Liverpool canal) Just one problem, am now going to have to spend ages downloading it all:)
 
I'm no content creator because I don't have the time or the skill set, but I did reskin one of Magicland's locos and it now has over 6,900 downloads so go figure. Even the worst of the worst makes something people like every now and then. :)

Cheers

AJ
 
Hi Barry, just had a look on the DLS at your content. Looks great to me,(not just saying that cause am from Liverpool & live next to the Leeds Liverpool canal) Just one problem, am now going to have to spend ages downloading it all:)

Hi Paul I remember swimming across the canal as a youngster but over 50 years ago now. The textures on some of the items I made are the actual items. hump backed bridge at Melling and wooden swingbridge (static). ............ Wooden swingbridge only just replaced with metal type recently in real life .................... Never did learn animation in gmax and my horses pulling the barges are all stiff legged.... Probably several of my routes no longer work as c2004 and continual changes in trainz tend to scupper invisible default track etc for the various boats, etc........ Will be interesting to see what works and doesn't in 2009 I suppose.... Thanks Barry -------------------------------- It turned into an interesting thread and thanks all. Must remember to enabable java script in firefox so no smilies and no paragraphs (double smile)
 
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My 2 bits

I will not say I am a great creator, and there is alot of difference in what I did in the beginning from the last few items I have made. I try to make everything look and work as best as the game limitations will allow, yet everytime I look again, I see little mistakes after it gets to the DLS. I do not understand the hipe about 09, what I understand is all content is good for any version after the one you make it for, is why I always do as 2.0... tell me what is the difference in content for 04 and 09. Why make things if they are not usable in later versions. I learn more everytime I make something and now have moved into making designs for the real world, starting with my new apartment under constructon. I make things because I want them, but also for others to enjoy. There is a saying- "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". New windows that don't work as well as before [Vista]; new trainz that need another change every year; all just money out yout pocket for what?
 
I just wish that if I downloaded someones loco that didn't have something like incremental breaking, I could edit a file and just copy and paste the required script/programming code into the file so the loco does have that functionality. Or if a loco I downloaded doesn't have the ability to change it's running numbers like the in game loco's do or how other content creaters loco's do, I can edit the file so it will be able too.

I'm not looking to steal or redistribute anyones creations, I just want to make them work as they should.

I've downloaded peoples Amtrak rolling stock where they made passenger cars, diner cars, etc but they don't actually work to where you can pick up passengers when you pull up to a station, so they are just for looks and really not usable. I finally did find Amtrak rolling stock that someone made where they did take the extra effort and make the cars work as they should.

I play this game as if I'm a real engineer driving a real train traveling from industry to industry picking up and delivering goods. That's a main part of what this game is about and why it's called a 'simulator'. When content creaters make content, that should be a main focus in what they create. For people who just wanna play, and play with content that gives that simulation experience.

In crude terms there are four basic bits to the models, the mesh or .im file, the texture file, the script if it exists and the config.txt file. If you look at a passenger active rolling stock config.txt file you'll see a product queue, cut and paste that into one you want to be passenger active and you should now have a second passenger active coach. Clone the item first, put -showkuids in your Trainzoptions.txt file.

Locos, I've been known to copy the .im file and texture files from something that doesn't work as I'd like it to into a clone of something that does. Change the reference to the .im file to the new name and you now have something that looks like the first loco but behaves like the second one.

Scripts are even more fun, generally speaking I use other peoples, this is a common computer programming technique, if some one else has some thing that works and has been debugged why invent the wheel. So I just copy in a script that works and change the references. Dale takes another approach he adds bits to the scripts to add smoke and sound when unloading etc.

You don't need to build everything from scratch in fact practically all my models incorporate other people's work. Trainz is very flexible and on the freeware side its quite common to reuse meshes etc with permission.

Cheerio John
 
I like to think of the DLS as a giant swap meet (anyone here ever been to Quartzsite, Arizona?). Sure, 80% of the contents are rubbish--to person A. A different 80% may be rubbish to person B. But stuff which for one person is junk to another may be just what they needed. Nobody has to use everything, and if you're too lazy to prowl through the new uploads to find the ones suitable for you then you're the one losing out. For me, stumbling across a new US signal or finely crafted switchstand is as big a thrill as another's UP Big Boy might be. So whether or not you think you're an expert, if you've done something you're proud of please go ahead and upload it!

--Lamont
 
I just wish that if I downloaded someones loco that didn't have something like incremental breaking, I could edit a file and just copy and paste the required script/programming code into the file so the loco does have that functionality. Or if a loco I downloaded doesn't have the ability to change it's running numbers like the in game loco's do or how other content creaters loco's do, I can edit the file so it will be able too.

I'm not looking to steal or redistribute anyones creations, I just want to make them work as they should.

Braking is partly controlled by the enginespec. If you are that interested in getting engines to work, first try talking to creators to see how they did enginespecs used. Enginespecs would almost be one of the easiest content items to make, all they are is a config file set up with information to make the engine work. I looked into this, I only lacked figuring out how to get the throttle and brake information needed. There's also testing to do in Trainz to insure the engine works as desired. So there are content areas where you don't need to learn reskinning or mesh creation or manipulate sound files, you just need information and know how to setup the config file. Another example is regions, nothing but a config file.
I wouldn't say edit enginespecs, just clone them and change information. Just make sure to read how they work, last I knew some lines were listed as "Don't change this line" or "Not used in Trainz" no point working with those lines.
As to changing running numbers, some locomotives allow this but the result is all of them look the same, same weathering, same paint, etc. This happens when 1 mesh is setup for running numbers, advantage is less FPS hit since you keep using the same item over and over but they all look the same except for the numbers. Those who don't put running number ability sometimes they choose to do it this way because then every locomotive looks different, different weathering, paint, details, etc. To the creator, this approach is more realistic because not every locomotive has the same weathering, details, etc.
So it comes down to a choice and thus you need to make one. Do you want the locomotives that all look the same (not too realistic) with different numbers or realism with different weathering too.
For more comparisons, you can go to places like VMD's North American freeware page. Get the CP GP38-2 pack, each of the three has different paint but no ability to change numbers. Compare to the GP40-2s, you use the same locomotive mesh that auto-assigns the number but they all have the same look. There's other places with models too. You have to know and choose this beforehand and know that the two methods are both used for justifiable reasons.
 
Barry: Do ordinary content makers have a place in trainz? - Always!

As a non-creator - rather an end-user, making semi-proto routes and driving them. I do appreciate different quality assets. Many times, low quality assets blends in far better in the landscape. To fancy assets sometimes looks totally malplaced. Best to use an even quality of assets, spanning from half-rubbish to half-excellent. Don't forget, this is a model-railroad-sim.

My 2cents on the original question...
 
Well just ran your Liverpool tram & docks layout, Barry. A couple of missing dependences but it ran ok inTRS06, am sure it can be made to run in TRS09. It has inspired me to try & to do the overhead railway when i get 09. If you ever do get back to making Trainz content, the old Litherland lift bridge would be nice, or even the old pylons that straddled the canal through Litherland & Bootle.
 
Well just ran your Liverpool tram & docks layout, Barry. A couple of missing dependences but it ran ok inTRS06, am sure it can be made to run in TRS09. It has inspired me to try & to do the overhead railway when i get 09. If you ever do get back to making Trainz content, the old Litherland lift bridge would be nice, or even the old pylons that straddled the canal through Litherland.

Hi Paul I set that one in about 1910 I think and the earlier docks route was for about 1830 based on dock plans. I have dock plans for 1801 so next scenery trainz or sailing sim set in 1785 about. Blend file as mentioned I use or have used in different simulators.

Litherland I read is going to get a new lift bridge to replace road.

Animation Would be Beyond me. the 1835 scenery includes the canal docks at Ellesmere Port.
Not sure If I tried to include the Overhead Railway (basic) in one of the routes as a few years since made.

Thank

Barry
 
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There are vertical lift bridges on the dls, but non like that at litherland. The overhead is on your docks layout. Just needs stations & to extend to Seaforth & Dingle, where the overhead went underground (only in Liverpool did you have to go underground to travel on a ''overhead'' railway):hehe:
 
Do ordinary content makers have a place in trainz?

Definitely, as has been pointed out several times here, you DO NOT need normal mapped and high polygon content for TRS. Perhaps for the latest version of TRS-TRS09 but as in life, nothing ever remains the same and gets updated, upgraded, improved etc. and one has to go with the times if one wants to.

Having said that, not everyone is using the latest TRS version nor has the latest high specced computer, hence there is still a place what I would call the normal content we created so far. Even Tony Hilliam said to a question from one creator re creating "old" versus "new" content, why not make items for both versions, meaning TRS04/06/TC and TRS09.

I classify myself as just an average content creator but my opinion is, if one creates what I call the "old" content and does the best one can do in creating it, others who download this items will be the judge of it whether it is good, bad or ugly. One can see then if an uploaded route's creator prefers to use your created item in his route or someone else's similar item instead. Then seeing your own created content's d/load number increasing somewhat over time is reward enough (for me at least) to justify creating this item in the first place. Beside, I love to create, either for myself only or for others to use as well.

Then if you are very good at it, you would be smiling like, say, David Drake must be with his wonderful creations one finds on the DLS (Hi Dave :wave: ). Just to single out one creator but there are many more creators out there with their excellent DLS content.

So, to answer your question, YES, DEFINITELY there is a place for you, me or others still doing content what I call the old way but even an old dog like me can still learn new tricks :hehe:

My opinion or if you prefer, my 2 cents worth.

VinnyBarb
 
There are vertical lift bridges on the dls, but non like that at litherland. The overhead is on your docks layout. Just needs stations & to extend to Seaforth & Dingle, where the overhead went underground (only in Liverpool did you have to go underground to travel on a ''overhead'' railway):hehe:

I remember when I made it I couldn't find stations to suit and was struggling with gmax.
Don't forget the horse drawn wagons on the roads loaded with bales of cotton, etc for the docks.;)
I think a few more old trams have been created since I made the route, if including trams in the scenery.

Barry

:)
 
Hi just depends what cm2 decides to do or not do. Unusable for me in tc1/2 which meant the program had to be restarted if clicking on the cmp in opening window. worked OK in tc3. On dial up and don't use it for download as use ftp.

We will see.. but either way not too concerned these days as will only be using the blender content I make and have made for around 1785, To be used in Stentec sail simulator when the next version eventually arrives and also dependant on the xml exporter for Blender which is being made but worked Ok to put my blend files of 1.5 miles of docks into tc3. Also used the blend files for similar scseneries I made in Virtual Sailor.

So will just leave the options open for whatever suits or whether worth the effort.

Thanks

Barry

:)

Hi Barry, I wouldn't worry too much about CM2 (that is if it worries you :) ), do what I did. I created/upgraded some of my uploaded scenery items from version TRS04, left them configured for TRS04 (in the config.txt) with normal maps and other improvements so they also will work for TRS09 in compatibility mode, checked its content (cdp) in TRS04 and when working there alright, loaded the same cdp into the last 2 TRS09 betas to see them happily appearing there too in all their normal mapped glory. These items are NOT on the DLS yet but will be soon (tm).

I do not have my ordered DVD of TRS09 yet but as the last TRS09 Beta2 showed me, this above mentioned content of mine placed side by side with my old identical TRS04 items already on the DLS showed me what TRS09 is all about and I love it :Y:

Mind you, so did my old trusty TRS04 but I think with all the "new" advertised improvements in TRS09 (after SP1 or SPX of course) will definitely switch me over to TRS09 or TRS-WBE in due course.

Cheers

VinnyBarb
 
I think there are 2 sides to my questions on this thread.

What I am interested in is it worth the effort trying to put content onto the DS.
This will be ONLY using cm2 as all past editions of trainz I have cleared out as will just be using 2009? Perhaps set to 2.8 version to upload to trs2009?

The way I read the various reports Auran are gradually trying to replace ALL content for trs2009 eventually with the current new methods?

Doesn't really matter though as probably won't be uploading further content. I think that ended at about 2004 version.


Barry
 
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