Discrepancy between route and session layers

[nicky9499]

Hello guys,

There's this little problem with my route at the moment, probably caused by the layers system screwing things up again. Here's what's happening:

1. Route is edited - in Session2 but on the Route layer - to tear up and re-lay and industrial siding and it's switch.

2. Open up Session1 to find that splines in this area a completely messed up, flying tens of miles away.

3. Temporarily saved the edited version and re-import the old version, overwriting. Open up Session 1 to find everything is alright.

This sequence of events suggest to me that there is something on Session1's Session layer that is conflicting with the new track I laid on the edited version's Route layer. However, there are no splines or object in this area that are on the Session1's Session layer - note how old version's Session layer is hidden and everything remains in place. I have also individually checked each track spline's Properties box to verify that they are all in Route layer.
The only difference between edited version and old version is this siding and new trigger radius settings for the turnout frogs.

Can someone help me figure out what's the cause of this please?

 

[norfolksouthern37]

you dont have SP1.

 

[nicky9499]

Hi Justin, could you kindly elaborate on how that may have caused a problem please? Both the route and session were made in 49922 and neither have ever touched SP1.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

i know but what i am saying is, you are not using SP1, which has addressed a lot of the layer bugs that have been found since your version.

 

[stagecoach]

Sessions are linked closely to the map which created them. Any alterations to the route only can cause the session to get confused because certain things have been moved. That is why you don't edit a route that has sessions unless you do so through edit session and only that session will still be linked to the route. Any other session linked to it may have a problem.

 

[nicky9499]

I see.

Justin, thank you for your suggestion. However I won't be upgrading the main install in the forseeable future as it has a huge amount of content for me to choose from when route-building and SP1 will probably break the majority of them. Should the route be upgraded someday, it will be through a separate standalone install where isolated cases of SP1-broken assets are fixed or replaced.

Stagecoach, that is a plausible explanation although this is the first time I am seeing such things. Is there any way to progress under such circumstances? That siding will have to be ripped out one way or another. If I were to lose the changes and revert to the old version, how can I replace the siding and switch or would such an action be impossible? Losing the session is out of the question, as it is completed after huge amount of effort put in.

Cheerio,
Nicholas

 

[stagecoach]

I always do my edit of any route via the edit session, then I know the session will work with the route. If I do other sessions for the same route then you need to be careful what items on the route you edit. Most scenery items that don't get named can be altered but things connected to track and rolling stock can cause a session to throw a tantrum.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

if you alter a route by removing tracks and displacing IDs of such tracks in the route then other sessions are likely to give problems. you can add to the trackwork most of the time, but if it involves say, splitting one track into two parts and adding a junction, and that track has specific session items attached to it, there will be confusion when the session attempts to connect with that track that you have modified. that is really the simple way of explaining it. if the above is a true layers issue, then odds are something was worked out in the SP1 builds that prevents the changes in the first place, and surveyor will let you know when this is happening, what the outcome is, and what to do next.

 

[nicky9499]

Thanks guys. I guess the only obvious way forward at the moment would be to lose the changes, start from the old version and somehow try to fudge the siding by moving spline points instead of re-laying the track. Sigh, more time wasted. If anyone else has a better idea please do share.

 

[stagecoach]

Select route and then select the session and edit session. You can relay track etc and when finished just save. This will overwrite the route and session or you can save as and create a new route and session name. As long as the track etc is altered from within edit session, the session will continue to work fine as it is still linked to the route.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Morning Nicky9499

ANY changes made to ANY object in the Route Layer will force the route itself to be edited. Hence any session that uses the route will see those changes. Unless you build that entire area in a 'base' session (and then rebuild all other sessions to include the desired variants of this area), what you are trying to achieve is not possible in TS12 preSP1...

TS12 SP1 includes a function that allows you to assign an object in the route-layers (or the session-layers I guess) to a session-layer (or any other layer essentially), and then 'hide' that layer. This will in turn hide the object(s) that are assigned to the layer, without actually editing the route. You can then build, in your session layer, the extra items required (e.g. rebuild fences, place alternate trees, etc). However, this functionality has only been introduced in SP1.

Regards

 

[nicky9499]

I Zec, thank you for your advice.

At this point however, I think it would be appropriate to clarify that the change I am making is intended for the route layer as the change was meant to affect the route and not an individual session. Therefore I am puzzled (and thus this thread) why even after ensuring that all splines in the area are on the route layer, the changes still fail to propagate and instead mess up sessions. However I have found that editing the Base session allows a change to the route be reflected across the subsequent sessions (at least when adding a spline point at the affected area, I'm not wasting more of my time being adventurous). However, since the Base session is essentially just another session like any other, I do not see the significance in this.

Cheerio,
Nicholas

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Afternoon Nicholas
When you edit the route, please try using the 'edit route' option then. Or, if you do use the 'edit session' option, please ensure that you have actually selected the route-layer before editing the route. The route layer won't be automatically selected, so if the tracks are disappearing, then you might need to ensure that they are actually being placed into the route layer.

One method I've used for quite a while now (since TS2010) to prevent accidentally adding stuff to the session layer is simply to lock the session layers. That way you'll get a reminder message telling you that you have tried to add something to a locked layer.

Regards

 

[nicky9499]

Hi Zec, I carry out and have even advised others of the best practices which you mention, including checking and locking layers before placing splines and objects. Again, I've checked the area and all the splines there are definitely on the route layer. Nevertheless in future I will use the Edit Route instead of modifying the route layer from Edit Session. Thank you for your advice.

Cheerio,
Nicholas