Detailed Google Earth Image as Ground Texture (image slightly over 800x600)

[ModelerMJ]

I notice an absence of geophil-posts in this thread....he is there however...

The application of GE .kml will always appear blurry applied to the baseboards. Your applying a 3D map to a 2D visual object. TransDEM was not designed to do that, and Trainz does not support that.

Your collection of .kml maps is the old way of doing it. Using Map Tile Server, you can download large sections of .kml quickly by learning the tutorial on Map Tiles Servers (MTS)...I ignored this until the latest version of TransDEM, because you can only get Topo maps through Web Mapping Servers (WMS).

TransDEM allows creation of UTM-Map Tiles for the purpose of displaying a 3D map perfectly.

The creation of the "Mini-map" is different from the display on baseboards, because the Mini-Map can project a 3D image. The creation of UTM-Tiles brings this into Surveyor, on height adjustable objects that can be imported to open just below the baseboard, in grid-view. That is useful for scenery objects that are needed to re-create the feel of the area.

I use Topo maps for the baseboard, because it gives the actual location of the track & roads (it is a surveyor based map). If the Topo does not have the track added after 1991, as in the BNSF Dutch Subdivision, Orin Subdivision or Sand Hills Subdivision, I create UTM-Tiles. They must be viewed directly overhead for accurate placement of assets.

Your homework: Read the information in the Help file for UTM-Map Tiles to learn how to apply .kml apps using TransDEM; exporting Map Tiles into Trainz.

Provide screenshots here for critique and questions.

I'm moving everything into TS12 for the reason that Surveyor now allows you to back off the map into the Sattelite view. This removes the need to use the mini-map in Surveyor.

Remember that updates for Google Earth, USGS elevation maps (you should be able to find 1/3-arcsec maps for all of the Continental US-America), Topo maps, TransDEM, etc are always subject to happen, so check for updates regularly.

Hi backyard,

I'm not sure I get the point of your post. First, Dr. Ziegler reviewed my tutorial and he is the one hosting the files (as I noted earlier), so I'd say that qualifies as him being aware of this process. Second, at the start of this thread I did say very clearly that I tried UTM tiles and basemaps and it was my personal opinion that they did not meet my expectations. Also, I am apply a 2D 'image' (JPG) which is basically a screen capture from Google Earth, not a KML file - so there is no 3D involved here. All I'm doing is laying an aerial photo on the DEM terrain, which is (I think) exactly like laying a topo map on the DEM terrain.

I'm glad that UTM tiles and other methods work well for you and wish you nothing but the best in your route construction efforts. I am aware of the tile mapping service but even so I still prefer to use Google Earth as it allows me to manipulate the images in more ways than I can with just e.g. Google Maps, and I am comfortable with the work flow involved even though it takes more time and effort.

I don't believe I have said that my process is a be-all/end-all nor am I saying to anyone that they must use it. Anyone who likes may try my process, and if it doesn't work for them or they find another reason to dislike it then they are free to go in any other direction they choose.

Regards,
-Mike

 

[backyard]

...waves of miss-understanding....

O.K..

 

[ModelerMJ]

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

By "manipulate in other ways" I mean that I have access to Historical imagery in GE that is often much clearer in my area of interest than the present-day images, which are all you get from Google Maps. For example I can look at an area in winter, and be able to see tracks and other features that are totally obscured by foliage in 'summertime' views. Also I like the ability to turn on or off the various layers in GE, many of which, again, are not available in Google Maps.

I won't debate your wisdom on the subject any further as your points are entirely valid. In my case it's a matter of personal choice as to which way I go about gathering my images, and also which way I go about using those images once I have gathered them. Odd as it may seem, I very much enjoy doing this manually -- to me, it is every bit as much 'part of building the route' as anything else.

Regards,
-Mike

 

[Jerker]

G'day ModelerMJ,

I finally got the chance to download and read through your excellent tutorial over this last weekend, Mike and I really must congratulate you on an excellent tome. I had actually been thinking of this process myself for some years now but the 'work' involved in creating the Custom Texture Set would always 'put me off' when the 'project' popped into my head. You have my admiration for doing that part of the process, alone...

...despite this and in conjugation with the information that I have read above, I am wondering if it wouldn't be easier if you suggested to people to use the "Google Earth" setting of the Map Tile Server to automatically obtain the Google Earth Orthophoto-imagery instead of doing it 'manually'. I suspect a 'Zoom' setting of around 15,16 or 17 should reproduce the required degree of 'resolution' for an 'eye altitude' of about 5 Km...

...it has also occurred to me that it wouldn't do any harm to use your new Texture Set for 'placing' regular Colour Topographic Maps onto the terrain - the 'additional' colours would give a much 'closer' reproduction of the original maps - something I have noticed in my own 'travels' with the standard Texture Set. Toward this end, I was wondering if you (and Dr. Ziegler, I guess) would mind if I 'hosted' the *.cdp Texture Set file on the Victrainz Forum website, so that I may direct people to it's download (directly - I can always link to your original *.zip download if you prefer, of course), for those occasions where I might use the texture set in my own TransDEM creations (and for those who use them who don't have the Texture Set installed on their system)...

Jerker {}

 

[mattm]

@Matt: Very nice! Thanks for posting and showing your results; seeing that it is in fact working for others makes it entirely worth the time & effort.

Regards,
-Mike

No problems, Mike.

Your tutorial was a big part in the ease in which I was able to understand the process, so thanks again for that.

As noted, this process is not a 'be all, end all' process, and there may well be better ways to do things, but it suits my purpose just fine. It's quicker, and it helps a big way in texturing routes, an area where I always struggle.

Matt.

 

[mrscsi]

G'day ModelerMJ,

I finally got the chance to download and read through your excellent tutorial over this last weekend, Mike and I really must congratulate you on an excellent tome. I had actually been thinking of this process myself for some years now but the 'work' involved in creating the Custom Texture Set would always 'put me off' when the 'project' popped into my head. You have my admiration for doing that part of the process, alone...

...despite this and in conjugation with the information that I have read above, I am wondering if it wouldn't be easier if you suggested to people to use the "Google Earth" setting of the Map Tile Server to automatically obtain the Google Earth Orthophoto-imagery instead of doing it 'manually'. I suspect a 'Zoom' setting of around 15,16 or 17 should reproduce the required degree of 'resolution' for an 'eye altitude' of about 5 Km...

...it has also occurred to me that it wouldn't do any harm to use your new Texture Set for 'placing' regular Colour Topographic Maps onto the terrain - the 'additional' colours would give a much 'closer' reproduction of the original maps - something I have noticed in my own 'travels' with the standard Texture Set. Toward this end, I was wondering if you (and Dr. Ziegler, I guess) would mind if I 'hosted' the *.cdp Texture Set file on the Victrainz Forum website, so that I may direct people to it's download (directly - I can always link to your original *.zip download if you prefer, of course), for those occasions where I might use the texture set in my own TransDEM creations (and for those who use them who don't have the Texture Set installed on their system)...

Jerker {}

Exactly what I was thinking, using Mike's textures I can actually get a pretty close representation of the desert Southwest that probably would not require a whole lot of touch up for distant objects such as the mountains for example. Now for trackside that's a whole different issue, but I can see it really being a timesaver for distant objects. It doesn't take long to pull the WMS maps and it does a very good job for my routes anyway.

 

[ModelerMJ]

G'day ModelerMJ,

I finally got the chance to download and read through your excellent tutorial over this last weekend, Mike and I really must congratulate you on an excellent tome. I had actually been thinking of this process myself for some years now but the 'work' involved in creating the Custom Texture Set would always 'put me off' when the 'project' popped into my head. You have my admiration for doing that part of the process, alone...

...despite this and in conjugation with the information that I have read above, I am wondering if it wouldn't be easier if you suggested to people to use the "Google Earth" setting of the Map Tile Server to automatically obtain the Google Earth Orthophoto-imagery instead of doing it 'manually'. I suspect a 'Zoom' setting of around 15,16 or 17 should reproduce the required degree of 'resolution' for an 'eye altitude' of about 5 Km...

...it has also occurred to me that it wouldn't do any harm to use your new Texture Set for 'placing' regular Colour Topographic Maps onto the terrain - the 'additional' colours would give a much 'closer' reproduction of the original maps - something I have noticed in my own 'travels' with the standard Texture Set. Toward this end, I was wondering if you (and Dr. Ziegler, I guess) would mind if I 'hosted' the *.cdp Texture Set file on the Victrainz Forum website, so that I may direct people to it's download (directly - I can always link to your original *.zip download if you prefer, of course), for those occasions where I might use the texture set in my own TransDEM creations (and for those who use them who don't have the Texture Set installed on their system)...

Jerker {}

Thanks for the kind words. As far as you providing access to the files from your site, I'm perfectly fine with that, but I think it would be best if you discussed that directly with Dr. Ziegler to see how he would like to handle it, as he was the one that offered to host them for me in the first place.

In regards to using the map tile servers vs gathering images manually... I have received that 'suggestion' several times now (a few times not quite so politely as you put it), and certainly that is a valid method of getting images to use with my process. Since there is explicitly no copyright attached to my tutorial, I would absolutely encourage anyone with the proper knowledge to update it to address the map tile server method - and/or other methods, and/or other types of images - so that it benefits as many people as possible.

Regards,
-Mike

 

[geophil]

As some people have already noted, even with the texture set which better matches colour distribution of aerial images than the standard TransDEM textures, we still encounter rather blurred terrain. Usually, applying an aerial image as a ground texture will give an even less sharp result than any cartographic map of the same scale. But that's the nature of aerial image vs. cartographic map.

The essential point, however, is the internal terrain data structure in Trainz and how Trainz uses ground textures. We have no practical means of increasing the limited resolution of 1 pixel per 5m. This leaves us with a maximum scale of 1:25,000 for a map and something similar but probably lower for an aerial image.

A more detailed aerial image, i.e an image at a larger scale, still needs to go to UTM tiles. Maximum texture size in TransDEM for UTM tiles is 4096. On a 500 m tile this will resolve the image with 12 cm per pixel. Compare that to the 5m per pixel with the ground texture.

This also the reason for the informational message in TransDEM "1 pixel per 2.5m". It's not an error as such. It simply tells you that the ground textures on the Trainz will not be able to resolve all the details of the image. Using the standard approach with Google Earth you should raise "eye altitude" to avoid the message. With aerial images acquired via Map Tile services, use a lower zoom level.

 

[Jerker]

G'day ModellerMJ,

Michael, I thought you might like to see the results of using your Webcolours texture set (and 5 meter Grid 'method') in use with a standard (albeit of the historical variety) OS map from the UK. Here's one I have just finished...

...exactly as I predicted. Hmmm, I wonder if we could convince "the Good Doctor" to make your texture Set the "Standard" for all future versions of TransDEM?

Jerker {}

 

[geophil]

The TransDEM user should feel free to apply the ground texture set he prefers. That's the reason why support for custom texture mapping has been there from the beginning. Kudos for this feature go to HOG anyway.

For upcoming TransDEM 2.2 I have done a bit of cosmetic tweaking about this feature to make it more user friendly. You will no longer need to restart TransDEM when changing the texture set. And the texture removal function will provide feedback.

Now, what about TransDEM's own texture set? As you may know, the number of ground textures in a Trainz route is limited. It used to be 250 for the entire route and is now 250 per baseboard since TS2009 (2nd patch IIRC). I always wanted to leave as many textures available as possible for route building proper.

Cartographic maps, on the other hand, only use a handful of distinctive colours for the print job. Of course, the colours in use are slightly different for each mapping authority. What I did was to take typical samples of a dozen or so topographic maps, issued by different institutions, and applied a colour quantisation algorithm to the lot. One suitable algorithm and the one I used is the Octree.

I went for a reduction to 16 colours in total from the Octree. This was the lowest reasonable value. I then manually added four additional colours: full black, white, magenta and cyan. All in all these 20 colours allow for a good reproduction of most cartographic maps. And they leave room to the route builder for 230 proper ground textures.

 

[ModelerMJ]

@Jerker: Thanks for the the update. Your map looks awesome and I'm glad my method and texture set is working out so well for you.

Dr. Ziegler is correct, of course, in saying that everyone should use whatever they think works best for them. Although not all 140 of the textures in the expanded color set might be used in any given circumstance, my method does still 'eat up' more of the available 'texture bandwidth', so to speak, so like anything else it's something of a trade-off.

Regards,
-Mike

 

[jeffmorris]

Here's my process, which works perfectly for me.

1. In Google Earth, double-check your settings. Then go to the location you want to work with (I just did this process with a location of Binghamton, NY).
2. Zoom in to an eye altitude of 5.0 km (hold RMB and move mouse up/down). Notice this is 5 kilometers - not 5 meters, not 50 meters, not 500 meters... all of which are far too close. It's 5000 meters, which shows in Google Earth as '5.00 km' in the Status Bar.
3. Press the 'R' key to reset any rotation or tilt.
4. Add a placemark, giving it a name like 'Test5000-001'.
5. Save the placemark as a KMZ file (right-click the placemark and select Save).
6. Be sure not to disturb the Google Earth display.
7. Save the image (File -> Save Image), calling it 'Test5000-001.jpg'.
8. Close Google Earth and open TransDEM.
9. Open the Google Earth .jpg Image (Raster Map -> Open Raster Map).
10. Georeference the image (Raster Map -> Georeference Google Earth Image).
11. Convert the image to UTM (Raster Map -> Convert to UTM).
12. Save the georeferenced/UTM-converted image (Raster Map -> Save georef. raster map).
13. Close the raster map.
14. Open your DEM.
15. Re-open the Google Earth raster map (Raster Map -> Open georef. raster map).
16. Use the zoom tool to zoom in on the area where the Google Earth image appears.
17. Draw a selection rectangle around the Google Earth image.
18. On the Trainz menu, select 'Export & Create: DEM & Ground Textures'.
19. The Trainz export dialog should appear with no warnings.

I just did this exact series of steps and had no issues at all. If this sequence does not work for you, then I'm afraid I'm at a loss as to what other advice to offer. Having said that, even if you get the warning you can always go ahead and let TransDEM create the route anyway, and see what it looks like in Surveyor.

Regards,
-Mike

I went through the above steps using a DEM file created by MicroDEM. When I try to load the DEM file into TransDEM, I get "DEM data not in UTM coordinates!" message. How can I fix this problem?

 

[geophil]

I went through the above steps using a DEM file created by MicroDEM. When I try to load the DEM file into TransDEM, I get "DEM data not in UTM coordinates!" message. How can I fix this problem?

Using TransDEM, you normally process your DEMs without the need for MicroDEM.

TransDEM converts to UTM on the fly, when opening the DEM. Some DEMs come in a Plate Carrée pseudo-projection (basically a lat/ling grid). The MicroDEM .dem format allows to store the DEM as lat/long but TransDEM will complain.

Either you convert the DEM to UTM in MicroDEM or you open the original DEM in TransDEM directly - provided the original DEM file is in a format supported by TransDEM, of course.

 

[jeffmorris]

How do I convert the DEM to UTM in MicroDEM?

 

[belgian46]

G'day ModellerMJ,

Michael, I thought you might like to see the results of using your Webcolours texture set (and 5 meter Grid 'method') in use with a standard (albeit of the historical variety) OS map from the UK. Here's one I have just finished...

...exactly as I predicted. Hmmm, I wonder if we could convince "the Good Doctor" to make your texture Set the "Standard" for all future versions of TransDEM?

Jerker {}

Hello Jerker,

How did you achieve this result?

Did you start from scratch or did you use your settings on a already made route?

Thank you

Best regards

Kurt :wave:

 

[Jerker]

G'day Belgian46,

Kurt, I received your PM (my apologies for the delayed response) and you have a reply via that 'process'...

Jerker {}

 

[belgian46]

Hello Jerker,

Thank you for your reply.

Best regards

Kurt :wave:

 

[belgian46]

PM To Jerker -

Hello Jerker,

Unable to send you any other PM, due to the following :

Jerker has exceeded their stored private messages quota and can not accept further messages until they clear some space.

Best regards

Kurt :wave:

 

[misterchugg]

hi mates

i have a problem that maybe you can help me with.

i have the many colors that are now available for transdem, but the problem is that once they are down,
i cannot see the utm tile undermeath it properly

please see screens below

i have tried to put the actual GE tile in, but i mucked it up

how do i know where to plate the GE tile so that i can have it in the right area to marks roads, tracks and houses?

any help would be greatly appreciated

thanks
ron

 

[geophil]

I still recommend to use a cartographic map for ground textures. A map will have distinctive roads, railways or rivers. Remember that resolution of ground textures is limited to 1 pixel per 5 or 10m, depending on the terrain grid option in Trainz.

When using an aerial image for UTM tiles, make sure that you zoom in sufficiently to benefit from additional details not resolvable by the ground texture.