amtrak2041864
High Speed Rail!!
I want to know if it is possible to drop elevation of a route from 135 meter I beleve to 0. And what methods would have to be used? Thank you for your time
DEM Help
- Thread starter amtrak2041864
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cascaderailroad
New member
Very Doubtfull.
Shortline2
Joined: 28th Oct. 2002
Hi,
Yes, it is possible, easy solution is a Payware program called TranzDEM, which can help raise or lower the ground. It is mainly for generating new routes, but it is not that hard to do it on a excising route, done it my self. It was not a fully finished route so I might speak ahead of my self, but pretty sure it will work on a fully route too.
The other option is way more cumbersome, but is the one needed to be done when one wants to rotate a route.
It involves in actually create a new blank route same size as the one needed to be change, and the merge it with the other, and the use the copy & paste method to move the old route over to the new baseboards, as I said, cumbersome, but it can be done, harder if needed rotating as doing it in section is not that easy, but, it can be done if really needed...
For lowering of raising, I go with TranzDEM any day, but then I have license on it so it is easy for me.
Linda
Yes, it is possible, easy solution is a Payware program called TranzDEM, which can help raise or lower the ground. It is mainly for generating new routes, but it is not that hard to do it on a excising route, done it my self. It was not a fully finished route so I might speak ahead of my self, but pretty sure it will work on a fully route too.
The other option is way more cumbersome, but is the one needed to be done when one wants to rotate a route.
It involves in actually create a new blank route same size as the one needed to be change, and the merge it with the other, and the use the copy & paste method to move the old route over to the new baseboards, as I said, cumbersome, but it can be done, harder if needed rotating as doing it in section is not that easy, but, it can be done if really needed...
For lowering of raising, I go with TranzDEM any day, but then I have license on it so it is easy for me.
Linda
amtrak2041864
High Speed Rail!!
That sounds great but I dont have TrainzDEM
Shortline2
Joined: 28th Oct. 2002
If it is important to you, and the route is not to large I might be able to help you. I need the route folder and should be able to run it through TransDEM even without any of the other assets.
Mail me linda@cripplecreekrailroads.com if you want. And mark is Trainz something, as I am riddled with SPAM on that address.
Linda
Mail me linda@cripplecreekrailroads.com if you want. And mark is Trainz something, as I am riddled with SPAM on that address.
Linda
Linda,
> The other option is way more cumbersome, but is the one needed to be done when one wants to rotate a route.
>
> It involves in actually create a new blank route same size as the one needed to be change, and the merge it
> with the other, and the use the copy & paste method to move the old route over to the new baseboards,
> as I said, cumbersome, but it can be done, harder if needed rotating as doing it in section is not that
> easy, but, it can be done if really needed...
Would you explain this in a bit more detail, please especially as regards rotating a route?
Peter.
> The other option is way more cumbersome, but is the one needed to be done when one wants to rotate a route.
>
> It involves in actually create a new blank route same size as the one needed to be change, and the merge it
> with the other, and the use the copy & paste method to move the old route over to the new baseboards,
> as I said, cumbersome, but it can be done, harder if needed rotating as doing it in section is not that
> easy, but, it can be done if really needed...
Would you explain this in a bit more detail, please especially as regards rotating a route?
Peter.
Shortline2
Joined: 28th Oct. 2002
Hi Peter,
I never done the copy & paste part my self, so this is more from the idea it should be possible and from reading it somewhere in this Forum that it can be done.
As newer Trainz has support for copy splines, objects, textures and ground, and one can rotate the part copied in 90 degree turns, I seen it mention it an be used to turn a route.
For me I imagine that means to add in a blank route with as many baseboards as the route needed to be turned, in the direction it is needed to be turned, and then using the selection mark and copy pieces of the original route into this new baseboards turned the direction one needs copying all the splines, objects, textures, ground.
If the route is small I imagine it should be possible to take it all in one big selection, but, the larger the selection, the harder it is to place it down on the new spot so there are limitations in practically.
All the splines would need to be reconnected where the various pieces has been pasted down as it would be broken at the edge of the selection to the nearest splinepoint inside the selection field. This would also affect all the trackside items like junctions, signals and other stuff that connects to a track, as they might shift also or plain disappear due to being on a piece of track that is clipped from a selection due to not both splinepoints being inside the selection.
Hence, the cumbersome mention in my post.
I also realize it probably is not the best option to lower a route, the copy and paste, but it could be done by using relative heigh, and just lower the baseboards to be pasted on to with the amount one need to change the height, then paste using realtive heights unto them from the source.
Sorry the long winded text, its easy hot morning here in Norway...
Hoping this helps some?
Best regards
Linda
I never done the copy & paste part my self, so this is more from the idea it should be possible and from reading it somewhere in this Forum that it can be done.
As newer Trainz has support for copy splines, objects, textures and ground, and one can rotate the part copied in 90 degree turns, I seen it mention it an be used to turn a route.
For me I imagine that means to add in a blank route with as many baseboards as the route needed to be turned, in the direction it is needed to be turned, and then using the selection mark and copy pieces of the original route into this new baseboards turned the direction one needs copying all the splines, objects, textures, ground.
If the route is small I imagine it should be possible to take it all in one big selection, but, the larger the selection, the harder it is to place it down on the new spot so there are limitations in practically.
All the splines would need to be reconnected where the various pieces has been pasted down as it would be broken at the edge of the selection to the nearest splinepoint inside the selection field. This would also affect all the trackside items like junctions, signals and other stuff that connects to a track, as they might shift also or plain disappear due to being on a piece of track that is clipped from a selection due to not both splinepoints being inside the selection.
Hence, the cumbersome mention in my post.
I also realize it probably is not the best option to lower a route, the copy and paste, but it could be done by using relative heigh, and just lower the baseboards to be pasted on to with the amount one need to change the height, then paste using realtive heights unto them from the source.
Sorry the long winded text, its easy hot morning here in Norway...
Hoping this helps some?
Best regards
Linda
Rotation, Raising and a Blue Comet Route
Linda, ('Glad to hear it's hot in Norway - seems like you've stolen the North Atlantic Drift
- it's overcast, rainy and cold in a northerly wind - from Iceland and Greenland - in Ireland!)
Ken,
If this copy and paste can't accurately rotate all parts of a route [elevation,. textures, structures (single and splines), track, trackside, trackmarks, cameras ...], at least board by board it's useless for the complex route that I have in mind.
I originally looked at this thread for information on changing elevation (raising an entire board then board-by-board a whole route), specifically information on how to use:
and whether that would be of use for this application. Linda? Ken? Anyone?
By the way, Ken, would your interest in Pennsylvania (DEM and steam) extend eastwards to the CNJ in Blue Comet days? Auran's beautiful Blue Comet loco and coaches deserve an authentic CNJ route to run over and jrfolco has a basic DEM route "Jersey City to Atlantic City" <kuid:73500:100405> on the DLS which might be used as a start. Would you or someone you know consider making a full CNJ route (or even a detailed part of it) or do you know someone who is? I only know about Britain and Ireland and couldn't even consider working on a US route. I was considering starting a thread on this. Please PM/email me.
Peter.
Linda, ('Glad to hear it's hot in Norway - seems like you've stolen the North Atlantic Drift
- it's overcast, rainy and cold in a northerly wind - from Iceland and Greenland - in Ireland!)Ken,
If this copy and paste can't accurately rotate all parts of a route [elevation,. textures, structures (single and splines), track, trackside, trackmarks, cameras ...], at least board by board it's useless for the complex route that I have in mind.
I originally looked at this thread for information on changing elevation (raising an entire board then board-by-board a whole route), specifically information on how to use:
Raise <kuid2:401543:1023:1> auran - "An empty displacement map. Handy for use with the Height Up/Down/Adjust tools to easily raise/lower square section of terrain."
and whether that would be of use for this application. Linda? Ken? Anyone?
By the way, Ken, would your interest in Pennsylvania (DEM and steam) extend eastwards to the CNJ in Blue Comet days? Auran's beautiful Blue Comet loco and coaches deserve an authentic CNJ route to run over and jrfolco has a basic DEM route "Jersey City to Atlantic City" <kuid:73500:100405> on the DLS which might be used as a start. Would you or someone you know consider making a full CNJ route (or even a detailed part of it) or do you know someone who is? I only know about Britain and Ireland and couldn't even consider working on a US route. I was considering starting a thread on this. Please PM/email me.
Peter.
nugget2225
Well-known member
can someone explain to me how to get the dem kuid's out of a layout i created, i tried the config file and also tried content creator plus, the missing dependencies dissapear, but as soon as i start the route and start working on it again and exit train the dem files show up as missing.
Shortline2
Joined: 28th Oct. 2002
Hi nugget2225,
That sounds strange, as you can't miss DEM files as DEM is what was once used to make the ground you see in Trainz, and if that was missing, you had no map..
But, I think you mean the coloring of a DEM map, the textures used, and for that, my mind is not working right, right now that is
, so I leave that part to others to say, but one way would be use the Delete Missing Assets button under the choices in upper left when loading a map in surveyor, do something to the map and save it - the missing stuff should be gone...
At Peter;
Sorry to hear we stole the heat. Just glad we not having snow anymore.
I can't tell how to use the kuid you mention, as I am not familiar with it, but I assume it is used in newer Trainz, like TS12 where one can use a displacement map with the raise/lower terrain button.
In terms of raising a whole map, I did it for the original poster but then it was a blank map so was fairly easy, on a map with lot of stuff to it, it might not fully work, if I remember correct stuff like objects has a tendency to get stuck in the air if lowering a map or sunk if raising, but, will snap to the ground either at next save, or a small change to the ground nearby or something like that.
It been some years since I done it so I can't fully remember how it was.
Hope it helps some?
Best wishes
Linda
That sounds strange, as you can't miss DEM files as DEM is what was once used to make the ground you see in Trainz, and if that was missing, you had no map..
But, I think you mean the coloring of a DEM map, the textures used, and for that, my mind is not working right, right now that is
, so I leave that part to others to say, but one way would be use the Delete Missing Assets button under the choices in upper left when loading a map in surveyor, do something to the map and save it - the missing stuff should be gone...At Peter;
Sorry to hear we stole the heat.
Just glad we not having snow anymore. I can't tell how to use the kuid you mention, as I am not familiar with it, but I assume it is used in newer Trainz, like TS12 where one can use a displacement map with the raise/lower terrain button.
In terms of raising a whole map, I did it for the original poster but then it was a blank map so was fairly easy, on a map with lot of stuff to it, it might not fully work, if I remember correct stuff like objects has a tendency to get stuck in the air if lowering a map or sunk if raising, but, will snap to the ground either at next save, or a small change to the ground nearby or something like that.
It been some years since I done it so I can't fully remember how it was.
Hope it helps some?
Best wishes
Linda
Internally Trainz uses a three-dimensional metric coordinate system, called Trainz World Coordinates (TWC). The first two principal axes are x and y direction, the third is z or elevation/height. What TransDEM does when raising or lowering a Trainz route is to go through all of the route files and change the the value of the 3rd axis in all TWC instances. You will find TWC everywhere where a position is needed. In the gnd file ("ground") it's the terrain vertices, in the obs file (objects) the placement of assets, in the trk file (track) the control point positions of all splines. The relatively new tcs file (train consists?) places rolling stock and the bmk file (bookmarks) defines view points. TS12 SP1 also introduces the rlr file (rulers) which used to be part of the ground file. Rulers also have positions as TWC.
We can change z = height/elevation without affecting the horizontal position. If we would change x or y by shifting or rotating we would compromise the entire baseboard structure. The implications would be severe, since we can only add or subtract entire baseboards. Think of editing a photograph which we want to rotate slightly. Suddenly we have black triangles in the corners. If we cut them off we will also lose some parts of our image. And we don't even have a static baseboard raster there.
We can change z = height/elevation without affecting the horizontal position. If we would change x or y by shifting or rotating we would compromise the entire baseboard structure. The implications would be severe, since we can only add or subtract entire baseboards. Think of editing a photograph which we want to rotate slightly. Suddenly we have black triangles in the corners. If we cut them off we will also lose some parts of our image. And we don't even have a static baseboard raster there.
Linda, ('Glad to hear it's hot in Norway - seems like you've stolen the North Atlantic Drift
Ken,
If this copy and paste can't accurately rotate all parts of a route [elevation,. textures, structures (single and splines), track, trackside, trackmarks, cameras ...], at least board by board it's useless for the complex route that I have in mind.
I originally looked at this thread for information on changing elevation (raising an entire board then board-by-board a whole route), specifically information on how to use:
Raise <kuid2:401543:1023:1> auran - "An empty displacement map. Handy for use with the Height Up/Down/Adjust tools to easily raise/lower square section of terrain."
and whether that would be of use for this application. Linda? Ken? Anyone?
By the way, Ken, would your interest in Pennsylvania (DEM and steam) extend eastwards to the CNJ in Blue Comet days? Auran's beautiful Blue Comet loco and coaches deserve an authentic CNJ route to run over and jrfolco has a basic DEM route "Jersey City to Atlantic City" <kuid:73500:100405> on the DLS which might be used as a start. Would you or someone you know consider making a full CNJ route (or even a detailed part of it) or do you know someone who is? I only know about Britain and Ireland and couldn't even consider working on a US route. I was considering starting a thread on this. Please PM/email me.
Peter.
Right now I am working on a DEM from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. I do not have much interest in CNJ but I do agree it is a nice looking train. I grew up with PRR (and the Reading) being from the Phildelpohia area, always liked going to see my grand parents because I got to go past 30th street station when it was a sea of tucan red varnish.
cascaderailroad
New member
Thats gonna be a pretty big DEM !
@ 1,000,000 baseboards ?
I thought my 5 county 10,000 baseboard DEM was big
Yeah, I don't think I am going to keep it that long as it takes 5 minuites to display and I have not put any objects on it yet. I am thinking about spliting it into 2 pieces and iPortaling between the two. It may inprove when GeoPhil adds support for TS12 SP1... time will tell.
jhuravitch
ProRailz...
I was watching one of the video tutorials on the TransDEM website and was wondering if anyone knew of any websites that have vector data for the U.S. like the website used in the video? (Second tutorial video on TransDEM forums page.) Would be a big help, thanks.
You can find the railways of the world here: http://www.mapswithoutborders.eu/data/ Scroll down to worldwide railways and download the file railways_osm_0.1.zip. This file can be opened and sections cropped in the old Microdem program.
I am now not sure if it was Microdem that I used to crop the data.