Yes, great fun is it not. You learn by experience, in other words, the hard way.
Cheers,
Bill69
Changing Safety Valve Volume Level
- Thread starter c38nsw
- Start date
Yes, great fun is it not. You learn by experience, in other words, the hard way.
Cheers,
Bill69
The person that should be "learning by experience" is the person that thought it would be a good idea to include out of date information on a searchable Wiki. Doing that just creating needless problems and confusion which benefits absolutely no one.
It's a Wiki, that's searchable, which empowers users to quickly and easily find the information they seek. So yes, one should assume that the more experienced Wiki users will use the search feature (and in this case, find out of date info).
If there is some compelling reason to include outdated info, at the very least, put something noticeable at the top of the page pointing out the fact that it's bogus information.
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The approach you're using seems to the best suggestion so far for a method of obtaining accurate values. The only problem I can think of is the fact that's it's difficult to impossible to find reliable data on U.S. locomotives regarding their (true) "working weight". One of the factors that determined how much U.S. engine crews were paid was engine weight, so the railroads usually "low balled" the working weight figures as much as possible. If the working weight of a given locomotive was published during the era, it was problem inaccurate.
I did come across some data for the Milwaukee Road 4-8-4 Class S-3 locomotives, which I'll mention...
The S-3's boiler hold 5,000 gallons of water at 2/3 glass. So, with that data in hand, it's easy to figure out the rest -- 5,000 US gallons (liquid) = 18.927 m³.
The S-3 is a fairly large U.S. locomotive, with a boiler larger than a USRA 4-8-2 or 2-10-2. I thought it'd be interesting to compare this real-world measurement to the boiler-volume values used in some the engineconfig files on the DLS.
The values used in these would seem to be about too high:
e-spec TS09/10 2-10-2 USRA Light Santa Fe; boiler-volume 25.826
e-spec TS09/10 4-8-2 USRA Light Mountain; boiler-volume 24.5
(Both of these should be somewhat less-than 18.927 m³, since the boilers are physically smaller than the S-3's.)
The values used in these would seem to be too low.
USRA Light 2-10-2 E-spec TS12; boiler-volume 12.77
USRA light 4-8-2 e-spec TS12; boiler-volume 11.78
Now, let's look at another enginespec, for the N&W Class J 4-8-4.
N&W Class J 4-8-4; boiler-volume 17.56
It's interesting that the value used for the J is lower than the for the 4-8-2 or 2-10-2, because in the real-world the J's boiler a good bit bigger than either the 4-8-2 or the 2-10-2 boilers. But despite it being "off" from the 4-8-2/2-10-2 value sequence it probably is pretty close to being accurate, albeit a little on the low side.
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I think what also might be happening with boiler volumes is the spread sheet Billegulla released back in the TS2009 days, I used the sheet myself to create a quick e-spec just so I could get locomotives to actually run without it acting weird, Billegulla uses rather strange values, take the cylinders for example, he has the sheet set to reduce stroke volume with larger driving wheels and increase stroke volume with smaller driving, the same is with the boiler, he has it set to horse power, lower the horse power the smaller the boiler and the larger the horse power the larger the boiler.
For a 18in x 26in I use Piston-Min 0.001641736957, Piston-Max 0.110061987110 and that's with a 0.5in cylinder clearance
For the Spread sheet I get Piston-Min 0.003669, Piston-Max 0.077042
These days everything in my steam e-specs are my own values based on the real loco, if I don't have that data I make a guess using a similar design loco, of cause you won't find any steams I've created on DLS as there in Beta on Victrainz.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8488/8244821428_510283ecf9.jpg
Another thing for boiler volumes is heating surface, mainly tubes, the image above was a common boiler on all Kitson Design locos from 1887 to 1892 such as 'D Class 4-4-0 branchline, A Class 4-4-0 Mainline, R Class 0-6-0 branchline, Y Class 0-6-0 mainline, EE Class 0-6-2 Shunters and E Class 2-4-2 Suburban Tanks', they also have different capacity due to less heating surface or more heating surface, the loco in above image had more tubes and a larger firebox so it's boiler was smaller volume compared to boilers with less tubes, smaller firebox which where higher volume (mainly 0.4m3 to 0.6m3 difference) this is how I ended up using the loco loaded weight to make the boilers.
Cheers.
For a 18in x 26in I use Piston-Min 0.001641736957, Piston-Max 0.110061987110 and that's with a 0.5in cylinder clearance
For the Spread sheet I get Piston-Min 0.003669, Piston-Max 0.077042
These days everything in my steam e-specs are my own values based on the real loco, if I don't have that data I make a guess using a similar design loco, of cause you won't find any steams I've created on DLS as there in Beta on Victrainz.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8488/8244821428_510283ecf9.jpg
Another thing for boiler volumes is heating surface, mainly tubes, the image above was a common boiler on all Kitson Design locos from 1887 to 1892 such as 'D Class 4-4-0 branchline, A Class 4-4-0 Mainline, R Class 0-6-0 branchline, Y Class 0-6-0 mainline, EE Class 0-6-2 Shunters and E Class 2-4-2 Suburban Tanks', they also have different capacity due to less heating surface or more heating surface, the loco in above image had more tubes and a larger firebox so it's boiler was smaller volume compared to boilers with less tubes, smaller firebox which where higher volume (mainly 0.4m3 to 0.6m3 difference) this is how I ended up using the loco loaded weight to make the boilers.
Cheers.
Well after playing around with this yesterday, here are some conclusions I have come to:
1. The steam pressure that these locos operate at is almost exactly the same as the safety valve trigger pressure, within a pound or so, unless the engine is under a heavy load. This is usually the starting pressure when you start a session which almost guarantees that the valve will immediately go off at session start.
2. The pressure reduction when the valve triggers is maybe a pound or so, so the valve monetarily closes and within a few seconds has to open again because the pressure builds right back up to the trigger point again. Hence the Phht...Phhhtt ...Phhht constant noise. I would imagine if this were happening in a real steam loco situation, that the engineer would push the fireman off the loco at the first opportunity.
3. Adding water to the boiler, has zero effect on pressure. ( seems totally unrealistic)
4. Letting coal run down to around 30% minimizes the build up of steam pressure as quickly
5. Running at low speed, or on a flat, pretty much guarantees that the safety valve will be triggering constantly until the coal level burns way down.
6. Running with the train brake constantly dragging for miles , will load up the engine, and help lower the pressure. Somehow, I doubt if railroads use this as an operation procedure, but correct me if I am wrong.
All of this of course, seems to be cured, by editing the the engine spec for the loco, that I have posted in this thread. The loco starts at a lower pressure, so no immediate valve actuation occurs, the buildup of the steam pressure is much slower, and the loco runs 10 15 pounds under the trigger point of the safety valve, which to me seems pretty realistic ( but I am not an expert in steam loco operations, by any means). Anyway, I have now replaced another one of my favorite locos, the FEF locos with this modified Engine Spec, and for the first time they run properly too, including the ones on my route under AI control. http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?95761-RRMODS-UP-FEF-Steam-Locomotive-Release
If I can get one or two more locos to work properly with this new engine spec, and not have to listen to this safety valve screaming at me, at all, during a run, I will be a very happy engineer.
1. The steam pressure that these locos operate at is almost exactly the same as the safety valve trigger pressure, within a pound or so, unless the engine is under a heavy load. This is usually the starting pressure when you start a session which almost guarantees that the valve will immediately go off at session start.
2. The pressure reduction when the valve triggers is maybe a pound or so, so the valve monetarily closes and within a few seconds has to open again because the pressure builds right back up to the trigger point again. Hence the Phht...Phhhtt ...Phhht constant noise. I would imagine if this were happening in a real steam loco situation, that the engineer would push the fireman off the loco at the first opportunity.
3. Adding water to the boiler, has zero effect on pressure. ( seems totally unrealistic)
4. Letting coal run down to around 30% minimizes the build up of steam pressure as quickly
5. Running at low speed, or on a flat, pretty much guarantees that the safety valve will be triggering constantly until the coal level burns way down.
6. Running with the train brake constantly dragging for miles , will load up the engine, and help lower the pressure. Somehow, I doubt if railroads use this as an operation procedure, but correct me if I am wrong.
All of this of course, seems to be cured, by editing the the engine spec for the loco, that I have posted in this thread. The loco starts at a lower pressure, so no immediate valve actuation occurs, the buildup of the steam pressure is much slower, and the loco runs 10 15 pounds under the trigger point of the safety valve, which to me seems pretty realistic ( but I am not an expert in steam loco operations, by any means). Anyway, I have now replaced another one of my favorite locos, the FEF locos with this modified Engine Spec, and for the first time they run properly too, including the ones on my route under AI control. http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?95761-RRMODS-UP-FEF-Steam-Locomotive-Release
If I can get one or two more locos to work properly with this new engine spec, and not have to listen to this safety valve screaming at me, at all, during a run, I will be a very happy engineer.
Bill69,
I modified the steam section of your N&W J class e-spec TS12 enginespec and I've posted a copy the modified section below. I'm sure your enginespec works great for cab driver aficionados, but I'm as Ie mentioned, I prefer AI or DCC operation and don't do cabs. With your original enginespec I could not get the N&W J out of the Bluefield yard limits on the Appalachian Coal route. The loco would start popping off and wouldn't stop. Now, after making some changes, I'm pleased to say that I can run the J through the yard and all the way downhill to Glen Lyn without it popping off a single time.
Since I haven't (cab) driven it, I thought I'd post it and see if you might have a chance to try it out. I'd be interested to see what is does. For my (AI driven) purposes, "it's a keeper", since I no longer have to listen to the safety valves screaming in my ears.
I modified the steam section of your N&W J class e-spec TS12 enginespec and I've posted a copy the modified section below. I'm sure your enginespec works great for cab driver aficionados, but I'm as Ie mentioned, I prefer AI or DCC operation and don't do cabs. With your original enginespec I could not get the N&W J out of the Bluefield yard limits on the Appalachian Coal route. The loco would start popping off and wouldn't stop. Now, after making some changes, I'm pleased to say that I can run the J through the yard and all the way downhill to Glen Lyn without it popping off a single time.
Since I haven't (cab) driven it, I thought I'd post it and see if you might have a chance to try it out. I'd be interested to see what is does. For my (AI driven) purposes, "it's a keeper", since I no longer have to listen to the safety valves screaming in my ears.
Code:
steam
{
number-cylinders 2
number-power-strokes 2
firebox-heating-surface-area 33.698
firebox-thermal-conductivity 17
boiler-volume 18.56
steam-chest-volume 0.4419
steam-chest-max-flow 192.72
super-heating-constant 125
max-fire-temperature 725.6
min-fire-temperature 505.5
initial-boiler-temperature 468.6
firebox-efficiency 1
max-coal-mass 2400
ideal-coal-mass 1814
shovel-coal-mass 6
safety-valve-low-pressure 2165
safety-valve-low-flow 10
safety-valve-high-pressure 2179
safety-valve-high-flow 20
water-injector-rate 6
piston-volume-min 0.016
piston-volume-max 0.177307
piston-area 0.36939
piston-angular-offsets 0.1,1.6708
valve-lap-percent 0.1
blower-effect 0.1
blower-max-flow 0.092
burn-rate-idle 0.00919
burn-rate 0.8
speed 19.09
cutoff 0.55
boiler-efficency 0.87
boiler-efficency-min 0.87
boiler-efficency-idle 0.87
hand-brake-max-force 2
}
ZecMurphy
Community Assistant
Hi All
I should point out that in my previous reply, I was only looking at the CAB mode aspects, not DCC. I did admit that the safety valve issue with DCC is something that is an issue, since it's a one or the other option.
As to old information on the Wiki, we did not put this on there. This information was entered onto the wiki by members of the community, so as to allow some of the information in the old CCG format to be available (I know I still reference it from time to time). If the URL has 'CCG' in it, then it is old information, and you should cross check it with the newer information on the wiki.
Bob, could you give a loco a test run for me? I do understand that you are more interested in US locos, however I know the loco quite well (being the creator, and Azervich having made the enginespec). Namely, kuid:103475:1 ( VR F Class 2-4-2t-SB-C ). From my own personal use, the safety valves should be fairly tame (if they go off, it'll be a longer steadier blow off, rather than lots of short bursts).
Regards
I should point out that in my previous reply, I was only looking at the CAB mode aspects, not DCC. I did admit that the safety valve issue with DCC is something that is an issue, since it's a one or the other option.
As to old information on the Wiki, we did not put this on there. This information was entered onto the wiki by members of the community, so as to allow some of the information in the old CCG format to be available (I know I still reference it from time to time). If the URL has 'CCG' in it, then it is old information, and you should cross check it with the newer information on the wiki.
Bob, could you give a loco a test run for me? I do understand that you are more interested in US locos, however I know the loco quite well (being the creator, and Azervich having made the enginespec). Namely, kuid:103475:1 ( VR F Class 2-4-2t-SB-C ). From my own personal use, the safety valves should be fairly tame (if they go off, it'll be a longer steadier blow off, rather than lots of short bursts).
Regards
Tried this kuid. kuid:103475:1 ( VR F Class 2-4-2t-SB-C ) Went about 1/4 mile at most and the safety valved started and stayed on, and on , and on. PSI triggered the valve at 160PSI. It quit sound off at 156 which took a long time, then within a extremely short time, it went back up to 160 PSI to start the sequence all over again. I rode it about 1 mile and gave up. Now either my TS12 is different from other TS12, or you have to have the same result when you drive this loco that I am getting.
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Bill69,
I modified the steam section of your N&W J class e-spec TS12 enginespec and I've posted a copy the modified section below. I'm sure your enginespec works great for cab driver aficionados, but I'm as Ie mentioned, I prefer AI or DCC operation and don't do cabs. With your original enginespec I could not get the N&W J out of the Bluefield yard limits on the Appalachian Coal route. The loco would start popping off and wouldn't stop. Now, after making some changes, I'm pleased to say that I can run the J through the yard and all the way downhill to Glen Lyn without it popping off a single time.
Since I haven't (cab) driven it, I thought I'd post it and see if you might have a chance to try it out. I'd be interested to see what is does. For my (AI driven) purposes, "it's a keeper", since I no longer have to listen to the safety valves screaming in my ears.
Code:steam { number-cylinders 2 number-power-strokes 2 firebox-heating-surface-area 33.698 firebox-thermal-conductivity 17 boiler-volume 18.56 steam-chest-volume 0.4419 steam-chest-max-flow 192.72 super-heating-constant 125 max-fire-temperature 725.6 min-fire-temperature 505.5 initial-boiler-temperature 468.6 firebox-efficiency 1 max-coal-mass 2400 ideal-coal-mass 1814 shovel-coal-mass 6 safety-valve-low-pressure 2165 safety-valve-low-flow 10 safety-valve-high-pressure 2179 safety-valve-high-flow 20 water-injector-rate 6 piston-volume-min 0.016 piston-volume-max 0.177307 piston-area 0.36939 piston-angular-offsets 0.1,1.6708 valve-lap-percent 0.1 blower-effect 0.1 blower-max-flow 0.092 burn-rate-idle 0.00919 burn-rate 0.8 speed 19.09 cutoff 0.55 boiler-efficency 0.87 boiler-efficency-min 0.87 boiler-efficency-idle 0.87 hand-brake-max-force 2 }
Hi wva-usa,
Tried your engine mods just now, It's not too bad but a bit under powered, with eight N&W passenger coaches it took almost 10 miles to get to 60mph. I have not tried it on a steep incline yet and with the performance it has I don't think I'd want to. I see you have increased the firebox-heating-surface -area quite a bit and increased the boiler volume, that should not make much of a difference but you have also increased the max-coal-mass, the ideal-coal-mass and reduced the shovel-coal-mass to 6. This means I need to press the space bar between 6 and 8 times to get the coal mass up 1% in the fire box, you would not get many firemen to work for you at that setting. The steam pressure also drops quite a bit when starting off and requires the blower to get it back anywhere near proper operating pressure, (should be 275lbs/sqin) Your safety-valve-low-pressure setting of 2165 would allow the boiler pressure to climb to 296.3 lbs/sqin. if your fireman can shovel coal fast enough. The efficency setting near the bottom, I have now settled on boiler-efficency 1,
boiler-efficency-idle 0.85 and boiler efficency-min 0.85, this allows steam to be generated easier when the loco is working and slows down when idle.
Generally the asiest way to get more power is to increase the steam-chest-max-flow but you have to remember a change in one tag will affect other parameters too.
Cheers,
Bill69
What is the formula you use to convert the steam pressure reading you quoted to PSI? i.e> 2165 would allow the boiler pressure to climb to 296.3 lbs/sqin.
Also, what is the difference between the safety valve low pressure and safety valve high pressure settings?
Hi Robert,
I created the e-spec for Zec's F class, however when I made the e-spec my TS12 had the safetyvalve bug and it wasn't till half a year later Zec linked me to a update, I started re-working the e-spec and got close to finishing it, however Zec released the F before I could get that last e-spec done, however I think Victorian Railways is much different to the rest of the world, U.S.A and other counties have massive locomotives, the largest boiler for a locomotive on the Victorian Railways is 11m3 which is the H Class 4-8-4 3 Cylinder, second largest boiler is 10m3 which is the S Class 4-6-2 3 Cylinder, most common volume for boilers is 5m3 to 1.8m3 so the safeties always had to be on or the loco would drop too quickly, the C Class 2-8-0 built in 1918 was a locomotive under boilered volume was about 4m3 ish, that loco needed 2 fireman's as they would constantly shove coal just to keep boiler pressure up, this was later solved when they changed to oil burning in 1940s.
Try this out and let me know how the safeties are http://tinyurl.com/VR-Y-Class-1889-1895-Beta-cdp
EDIT:
The difference on low pressure and high pressure is to protect the boiler, Low Pressure goes off at Working Pressure, 175PSI WP = 175PSI Low Pressure Valve, high pressure goes off when the boiler keeps rising and it's in risk of blowing up so the High pressure is set to release large amounts of steam, for the low pressure you'll have it to a very low flow with high pressure at a high flow as the low pressure is meant to keep the boiler at working pressure and isn't suppose to drop the boiler, however N3V put a 6 PSI drop in the valves so when they go off a 175PSI WP boiler is really a 169PSI WP Boiler because the safeties try to drop pressure and not hold pressure.
Cheers.
I created the e-spec for Zec's F class, however when I made the e-spec my TS12 had the safetyvalve bug and it wasn't till half a year later Zec linked me to a update, I started re-working the e-spec and got close to finishing it, however Zec released the F before I could get that last e-spec done, however I think Victorian Railways is much different to the rest of the world, U.S.A and other counties have massive locomotives, the largest boiler for a locomotive on the Victorian Railways is 11m3 which is the H Class 4-8-4 3 Cylinder, second largest boiler is 10m3 which is the S Class 4-6-2 3 Cylinder, most common volume for boilers is 5m3 to 1.8m3 so the safeties always had to be on or the loco would drop too quickly, the C Class 2-8-0 built in 1918 was a locomotive under boilered volume was about 4m3 ish, that loco needed 2 fireman's as they would constantly shove coal just to keep boiler pressure up, this was later solved when they changed to oil burning in 1940s.
Try this out and let me know how the safeties are http://tinyurl.com/VR-Y-Class-1889-1895-Beta-cdp
EDIT:
The difference on low pressure and high pressure is to protect the boiler, Low Pressure goes off at Working Pressure, 175PSI WP = 175PSI Low Pressure Valve, high pressure goes off when the boiler keeps rising and it's in risk of blowing up so the High pressure is set to release large amounts of steam, for the low pressure you'll have it to a very low flow with high pressure at a high flow as the low pressure is meant to keep the boiler at working pressure and isn't suppose to drop the boiler, however N3V put a 6 PSI drop in the valves so when they go off a 175PSI WP boiler is really a 169PSI WP Boiler because the safeties try to drop pressure and not hold pressure.
Cheers.
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I actually used a conversion table but the formula for the low pressure safety valve is 275+14.7 because it is gauge pressure, times 1.01 because it is under inceasing pressure times 6.8932 to convert it to Kilopascals.
The difference in Trainz can be anything you like but in real locos it is usually 10 to 15 PSI.
Cheers,
Bill
The J Class locos were originally built with boilers @ 275 psi but the N&W's Roanoke Shops raised all of the J locomotives' boilers to 300psi (300 lbf/in²).
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Yep, it was designed for "pop off free" AI operation (which works fine, now), not winning races.
The ideal-coal-mass is based on real-world data, specific to a Milwaukee road S-3 4-8-4, which "ideally" holds 5-inches of coal in its firebox, weighting 4,000 lbs. The boiler-volume is also based on the real-world volume of the Milwaukee road S-3 4-8-4's boiler, reduced by ~5%.
Firebox-heating-surface was a guesstimation, e.g. if the little VR S loco's = 21, I'd think the N&W J's would be at least 33.
The shovel-coal-mass was reduced to 6, which is another value from the real-world, in this case, from the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health & Safety, which recommends, "The load lifted should be adjusted according to the shovelling rate. For a high rate of shovelling (about 15 scoops per minute) the total weight (weight of a shovel plus a shovel load) should not exceed 5 to 7 kg (about 10 to 15 lb)."
But I suppose its true that the Trainz "simulation" (of firing a locomotive boiler) to actually work you have to use a non-real-world value for shovel-coal-mass. Frankly, I think the Trainz shoveling coal concept is rather absurd. In the real-world it took two firemen to shovel enough coal for even the smaller Mallets and every modern, large locomotives, such as the J, had a stokers because one man couldn't shovel enough coal to keep the locomotives working at full steam.
Although the Js were originally built @ 275,they all were soon changed to 300 psi (which increased tractive effort from 77,899to 80,000 pounds).
See above. The J's boilers were 300 psi boilers. Every book, article, and website that has info on the Js usually mentions that fact.
And no, the fireman on the real Js didn't shovel very much coal or have to worry about "shoveling coal fast enough", since the stoker took can of that... much more efficiently than any human could have.
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I tried your Beta. The safety was quiet for about 1/4 mile and then was triggered. The only way I could get it to stop was to put the cutoff back to +75%. If I ran the loco at that setting, the safety would stop hissing. If I tried to reduce the cutoff below 75% to say 65%, the safety would start again and wouldn't continue to release steam non-stop. The max speed with 4 empty coal hoppers at +75% is 28 mph, so I don't think this is a realistic setup. The release pressure for the boiler is 140 PSI. Changing the cutoff to +75% immediately reduces the pressure to around 125 PSI within a few seconds.
Hi Robert,
That's rather interesting as it doesn't pop the safeties much for me when I'm working a heavy train the boiler drops to 125-120 PSI in cut-off 40% and regulator 100%, safeties should only pop on while coasting or shunting, as to the speed, these where not very fast locomotives, on a pass train they would reach 37/40mph when they did race specials, however these where heavy main line goods engines and would only run at 20 to 25mph, in surveyor use the properties button and click on the loco as I have a html set up, it lists the amount of weight they pulled.
http://victorianrailways.net/photogallery/suburb/sub05/willyold.jpg
How far back did you pull the cut-off too? it should be 75% 1-6mph, 70% 6-9mph, 65% 9-15mph, 60% 15-19 mph, 55% 19-25mph, 50% 25-31mph, 45% 30-36mph, 40% 36-40mph, Max Permitted Speed for these where about 40/41mph, I only pull the cut-off to 37% when I need the safeties to go on for the next hill, these are estimate, however I use these cut-off settings also do you have the blower on? it's also set up so the blower uses steam too just like the real ones, I think I have it set to use 1.7kg/s.
Hey all,
I've spent most of the day uploading videos to youtube about safety valves, not sure how the rest of the world run there locos, but we seem to like our safeties on, lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo4ly1IV_Yg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KthDWddxK-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwmIxnesT-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlrT8wMp9wg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwZwLpyRJn4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8HfN1-DbRw
I uploaded a total of 17 videos, these are just a selected few, these are not tourist railways, these are every day operation during the 1940s/50s/60s.
The first video listed is my favourite out of the list
Cheers.
That's rather interesting as it doesn't pop the safeties much for me when I'm working a heavy train the boiler drops to 125-120 PSI in cut-off 40% and regulator 100%, safeties should only pop on while coasting or shunting, as to the speed, these where not very fast locomotives, on a pass train they would reach 37/40mph when they did race specials, however these where heavy main line goods engines and would only run at 20 to 25mph, in surveyor use the properties button and click on the loco as I have a html set up, it lists the amount of weight they pulled.
http://victorianrailways.net/photogallery/suburb/sub05/willyold.jpg
How far back did you pull the cut-off too? it should be 75% 1-6mph, 70% 6-9mph, 65% 9-15mph, 60% 15-19 mph, 55% 19-25mph, 50% 25-31mph, 45% 30-36mph, 40% 36-40mph, Max Permitted Speed for these where about 40/41mph, I only pull the cut-off to 37% when I need the safeties to go on for the next hill, these are estimate, however I use these cut-off settings also do you have the blower on? it's also set up so the blower uses steam too just like the real ones, I think I have it set to use 1.7kg/s.
Hey all,
I've spent most of the day uploading videos to youtube about safety valves, not sure how the rest of the world run there locos, but we seem to like our safeties on, lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo4ly1IV_Yg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KthDWddxK-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwmIxnesT-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlrT8wMp9wg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwZwLpyRJn4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8HfN1-DbRw
I uploaded a total of 17 videos, these are just a selected few, these are not tourist railways, these are every day operation during the 1940s/50s/60s.
The first video listed is my favourite out of the list
Cheers.
Hi Robert,
That's rather interesting as it doesn't pop the safeties much for me when I'm working a heavy train the boiler drops to 125-120 PSI in cut-off 40% and regulator 100%, safeties should only pop on while coasting or shunting, as to the speed, these where not very fast locomotives, on a pass train they would reach 37/40mph when they did race specials, however these where heavy main line goods engines and would only run at 20 to 25mph, in surveyor use the properties button and click on the loco as I have a html set up, it lists the amount of weight they pulled.
http://victorianrailways.net/photogallery/suburb/sub05/willyold.jpg
How far back did you pull the cut-off too? it should be 75% 1-6mph, 70% 6-9mph, 65% 9-15mph, 60% 15-19 mph, 55% 19-25mph, 50% 25-31mph, 45% 30-36mph, 40% 36-40mph, Max Permitted Speed for these where about 40/41mph, I only pull the cut-off to 37% when I need the safeties to go on for the next hill, these are estimate, however I use these cut-off settings also do you have the blower on? it's also set up so the blower uses steam too just like the real ones, I think I have it set to use 1.7kg/s.
Hey all,
I've spent most of the day uploading videos to youtube about safety valves, not sure how the rest of the world run there locos, but we seem to like our safeties on, lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo4ly1IV_Yg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KthDWddxK-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwmIxnesT-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlrT8wMp9wg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwZwLpyRJn4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8HfN1-DbRw
I uploaded a total of 17 videos, these are just a selected few, these are not tourist railways, these are every day operation during the 1940s/50s/60s.
The first video listed is my favourite out of the list
Cheers.
Well as I stated, I put a pretty light load on the train, 4 empty coal cars. It looks like, from your data, that I probably pulled the cutoff back to far , too soon trying to get some more speed. It seemed to be happiest with the load I was pulling at 70-75%, at around 25 mph. I will play with it some more and watch the videos that you posted. Lots to learn, it appears.
Bill69,
Try this variation on your theme (below) for the N&W Class J, if you would. It works well under AI for me -- pops off once when the game is 1st loaded, never pops off afterwards. Since the other one was too underpowered for your tastes, this one is capable of moving a 10 car passenger train out of Radford Station and hitting 60MPH before Walton Wye (about 2.3 miles) on the Appalachian Coal route. Cab driving "ain't my thing", but even I can get it up to 100+ MPH but the cars in tow leave the track at much beyond 100 MPH. I did set it up so I don't have to do a lot of shoveling of coal, however...
Try this variation on your theme (below) for the N&W Class J, if you would. It works well under AI for me -- pops off once when the game is 1st loaded, never pops off afterwards. Since the other one was too underpowered for your tastes, this one is capable of moving a 10 car passenger train out of Radford Station and hitting 60MPH before Walton Wye (about 2.3 miles) on the Appalachian Coal route. Cab driving "ain't my thing", but even I can get it up to 100+ MPH but the cars in tow leave the track at much beyond 100 MPH. I did set it up so I don't have to do a lot of shoveling of coal, however...
Code:
steam
{
number-cylinders 2
number-power-strokes 2
firebox-heating-surface-area 53.7
firebox-thermal-conductivity 17
boiler-volume 30
steam-chest-volume 0.4419
steam-chest-max-flow 192.72
super-heating-constant 125
max-fire-temperature 650
min-fire-temperature 485
initial-boiler-temperature 485
firebox-efficiency 1
max-coal-mass 2200
ideal-coal-mass 1800
shovel-coal-mass 48
safety-valve-low-pressure 2166
safety-valve-low-flow 10
safety-valve-high-pressure 2180
safety-valve-high-flow 20
water-injector-rate 12
piston-volume-min 0.016
piston-volume-max 0.177307
piston-area 0.36939
piston-angular-offsets 0.1,1.6708
valve-lap-percent 0.1
blower-effect 0.1
blower-max-flow 0.2
burn-rate-idle 0.00919
burn-rate "1e-005"
speed 19.09
cutoff 0.55
boiler-efficency 1
boiler-efficency-min 1
boiler-efficency-idle 1
hand-brake-max-force 2
}
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