CCP Do faults really exist?

[Barry]

Getting very puzzled when I read the posts of people that mention if faults in an item throw the content off the DS.

EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE IS REQUIRED considering all the many 1000s of hour that must have been spent and when made had non of the "so called problems".

I have made drivable boats for 2004 which ran perfectly with no problems.
Nor were there any errors in them.

OK somebody downloads my content and then tries to update it in say the current TC3 which is what i am using, and we find missing engine, missing horn sound, mesh doesn't load, texture 512 size incorrect etc, and many more plus the the batch of text entries of license, website, etc (but only takes a few minutes to delete this type).

Do NOT try and update it.
Load the boat, lay the invisible track and away she goes "sailing" happily along without a care in the world..

I don't know where it is finding the files from as they don't exist according to CCP, and not in Surveyor, etc so they must be stored somewhere.

This bring us to version 2009/20010 which aims to make much of previous content workable in those versions perhaps by auto updating?

Very puzzling is Trainz at present.
Any new content I make I have to make using TC3, according to TC3 requirements I know, but content from previous editions works quite happily (at least much of it will whatever CCP says ).
Only hope that 2009 edition is the line drawn where content stays compatible for a good few years.

Barry

 

[wreeder]

Hi Barry,

I'm a little confused. CCP is the subprogram for creating config.txt files for assets from within CMP which is the program for managing the Trainz Asset Database.

If I'm reading you right you have discover the fact that CMP seems to "heal" faulty content and allow it to work even though it still complains about it beng faulty. That is true and in most cases the assets run fine in the game as you have experienced. I tend to fix the little problems myself but that is just me.

The complaints about CCP in TRS2006 was that the configs it created prevented the assets from being used in earlier versions. The way it handles bogies is a prime example. So many creators went back to the old method of using an exisiting and working config for new content and just making the changes needed for the new asset. This allowed it to work in all versions but didn't always make use of all the new features of later versions. An asset packaged in CMP could be back dated by just changing the trainz build version. CCP had other problems too and even Auran seemed disappointed in the first release. The newest version seems better though I've only used it to create configs for a couple of ground textures so far.

William

 

[Euphod]

This bring us to version 2009/20010 which aims to make much of previous content workable in those versions perhaps by auto updating?

I don't know Barry, but I reckon if Auran doesn't get it right by 2009, surely they will by 20010?:wave:

 

[Quiebus]

I don't know Barry, but I reckon if Auran doesn't get it right by 2009, surely they will by 20010?:wave:

I bet the extra zero in 20010 is not a typo.

 

[Barry]

Hi Barry,

I'm a little confused. CCP is the subprogram for creating config.txt files for assets from within CMP which is the program for managing the Trainz Asset Database.

If I'm reading you right you have discover the fact that CMP seems to "heal" faulty content and allow it to work even though it still complains about it beng faulty. That is true and in most cases the assets run fine in the game as you have experienced. I tend to fix the little problems myself but that is just me.

The complaints about CCP in TRS2006 was that the configs it created prevented the assets from being used in earlier versions. The way it handles bogies is a prime example. So many creators went back to the old method of using an exisiting and working config for new content and just making the changes needed for the new asset. This allowed it to work in all versions but didn't always make use of all the new features of later versions. An asset packaged in CMP could be back dated by just changing the trainz build version. CCP had other problems too and even Auran seemed disappointed in the first release. The newest version seems better though I've only used it to create configs for a couple of ground textures so far.

William

Hi not used cmp/ccp before as used 2004.
Using classics 3 and CMP show faulty.
If I "heal" faults in CCP on my drivable boats, etc or try to, to make it "compatible to tc3, it brings up errors, 512 image wrong size, bogey missing, no horn sound, etc, etc, etc.

However if do nothing and leave all the faults it sails with no problems complete with horn sound, etc and leave it showing faulty.
These I think I aliased from other items but I made engine config which I loaded but even that it says can't find.
Point being what does faulty mean if it all is working prefectly and in 2009 Auran mention making previous earlier content compatible or most of it.

I understand of course if some items don't work at all etc they would need fixing but worth testing first to see what ccp says are all the errors and do nothing (except maybe fix the minor items like text "faults", etc if you wish) and see how it works.

My faulty boat by doing nothing with the missing horn sound and umpteen errors runs perfectly complete with horn sound, etc...and don't do anything. just retried it now as I type.

I think maybe best to wait until 2009 version comes out to see what the bottom line is for "fixing" items, as that seems to be the start of the "new" trainz world....maybe.

Barry

Would'nt know how to start fixing some of the so called errors anyway now as us pensioners are getting puffed, with many years pondering about trainz.

 

[ianwoodmore]

CMP faults assets that work in game

In most cases it is spurious or incorrect entries in the config.txt that cause these problems. The cursed double quotes that using Word as the text editor cause a major share of these problems. But people not reading the CCG before creating also is a major factor. Some of our best and most prolific creators are the worst offenders. Unfortunately, lesser mortals copy their config.txt warts and all and so the errors spread like a virus.

As you rightly point out, in many cases the asset works fine in the game.

However, I have noticed that sometimes the mesh calls for a file from a folder that was probably on the creators computer but is not a default folder in a user's computer. Sometimes creators also leave data in the config file that they then rem out with an incorrect character such as \ or \\.

I have fixed some 17,000 assets to keep CMP quiet. The majority of these faults are in UTC and TRS2004 as you would expect as there are many more assets built in those versions than in later versions of Trainz. I hope later this year to resurrect the TARL project but that is about two years solid slog to include all the fixes.

As the Trainz versions progress the testing for compliance with the CCG has got tighter. Another 1,700 popped up when TC1/2 was installed. Note that initially CMP hides these faults. It is only when you open for edit and then commit that the true status according to CMP is shown. But most of the UTC and nearly all TRS2004 assets can be made to work in later versions, albeit they don't have the later functionality. The earlier scenarios are a thorn. But only 5 rogue assets crash the CMP and can't be cured. Of course there are a few meshes with attachment problems too.

The biggest problem I find is missing dependents and that includes TRS2006 builtins that were not retained in TC1/2. I hope to have overcome that by merging TRS2006/TC including TC3. As soon as I get my main computer back from updating memory and hard drive capacity I can continue on with the fixing to the latest standard but retaining backwards compatability wherever possible.

Of more concern to me at the moment is that the DLS and its ftp counterpart tell you that assets exist and can be downloaded but in fact are missing. (over 300). In other cases they don't show on the DLS unless you use the history hyperlink and I mean the latest version. Then, of course, there are the assets that can only be found on external websites with no indication of where to find them.

 

[Barry]

Hello Ian thanks for the detailed description. Certainly become complex with the updates to the trainz versions.......... Probably beyond me trying to fix my drivable boat faults but not too concerned about that as have similar blend files made with Blender as as textured meshes............................. I may continue just making new content using Blender and the beta trainz exporter.... Got three of my recently made Blender castles OK into tc3 as scenery items and it makes the config as version 2.7 as using an old sceenry config from 2004......also tried it with new config which it makes as 2.8 version The problem is in CCP it says delete auto-create 1. and I corrected the other faults.... However when I delete that line it no longer loads into surveyor. Maybe that will be fixed in the Blender exporter by Torsten eventually or possibly to do with ccp. Bit of a mystery that one at present...................... Once I solve that may look up the ccg for the recent version for drivable items and at least they should then be compatible to version 2009 when it arrives........... Thanks................ Barry

 

[johnwhelan]

I think you used to do a lot of art folder stuff that Traniz can manage without and some of your errors are in there.

So deleting chunks might well make some stock error free.

Cheerio John