Authors - Notice of Intent on Project TARM

[skidmark22]

I would like to interject my feeling on this. It appears that one of the major problems is over the years, trainz has evolved and now there are too many uncompatible versions that are trying to be lumped together into one DLS. I know that it is not possible now but maybe starting with TRS 2009, there should have been a separate and different DLS with only items that work with 2009+ versions. That way, creators who don't want their creations made for earlier version ending up in TRS 2009 or 2010 and being modified to work there would not have anything to worry about. There is absolutely no way of knowing (to my knowledge)what items on the DLS will work in 2009 (without modification) and which will not. My 2009 CM2 is loaded with items that do not work properly. I am slowly but surely working to delete all of them. For sure it is taking me a lot longer to find and delete them than it did to download them. Believe me, if I have known before I bought 2009 WBE that I would have to be spending my days and nights learning to modify and edit things to work in it, I would never have bought it.
I strongly feel that the evolution of trainz is rapidly nearing an end if a solution is not soon found. There is a powerful need for a second DLS with item that are compatible with later versions and with items that creators don't mind being edited to make them compatible. Keep separated the old and the new or the evolution is coming to a screeching halt.

 

[ianwoodmore]

Skidmark22

All but a 1000 or so assets (0.5%) can be fixed and can be used in TS2009/10 even in native mode.

Having a separate DLS is not practical nor necessary. That's what you have search filters for in CM.

Sirgibby's Murchison 2 TS2009 add-on has had rave reviews.

It is trainzbuild 3.1 and a fine example of extending an original design to the latest Trainz versions.

Of the 2,159 assets used:

a. only 21 are TB 2.9 or newer.
b. 2,129 are SP3, UTC and TRS2004.

And I've repaired quite a few of the assets that Michael has used.

Quite spectacular in TS2010 native mode using nvidia 3D stereoscopic vision on a wide screen too.

Sure there are a few trees that have alpha plane problems and some of the vintage NG locos could do with a makeover. But without those legacy assets that you suggest dumping or separating Murchison 2 would not be viable. Presumably Michael will still need those legacy assets when he extends it in his proposed Murchison 3. It is no different for any other route/session that you want to use in TS2009/2010.

Trainz assets are global and know no boundaries, neither international nor by trainzbuild versions. Some just need repairs. I have 104,000 that have no current errors or warnings.

MartinVK

Shadows are missing for nearly all early assets. If PMs were originally used, as was the case with most assets before TRS2004, then the lack of a shadow causes a red flag and prevents the asset being used in TS2009/10 native mode.
In conjunction with mesh-tables and using PEV's tools it is a trivial task, albeit semi-manual, to provide a shadow in compliance with the CCG specifications and Auran's original and current intent. It does require inclusion of a mesh-table in the config file to make it work This in international law is known as interoperability I believe, and as such I do not think it flouts copyright. I believe there were some problems with gmax or 3DSmax at the time that prevented shadows being included.

There are also provisions within the law, including Australian, to fix errors under certain conditions without contravening copyright.

Does anyone have the latest Auran software license agreement, or the Auran Content Creation and Distribution Policy? I can't find them on any Auran website. The conditions in those documents may throw further light on this murky subject.

 

[kevin_m_jones]

bin\cpmdata\license in 9 and 10

Auran Content Creation and Distribution Policy

Table of contents
General terms
1 Consideration
2 Auran's rights
2.1 Grant of license
2.2 No conveyance
2.3 Rights to remove
3 Warranties
4 Indemnity
5 Limitation of liability
6 General
6.1 No partnership
6.2 Inconsistent law
6.3 Governing law
7 Interpretation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
General terms
This is a legally binding license agreement ("license") between you, the uploader of New Works to the Auran Download Station and Auran Games Pty Limited (ABN 73 081 393 311) ("Auran") in relation to Auran's rights to your copyrighted works. This license governs Auran's and, where applicable, its Representatives and Related Entities use of your works. By uploading New Works to the Auran Download Station, or otherwise using the Auran Download Station, you are deemed to consent to, become bound by, and become a party to all the terms and conditions of this license. If you do not agree to all of the terms and conditions of this agreement, do not upload works to or otherwise use the Auran Download Station. Your continued use of the Auran Download Station is taken as your continued agreement to this license.

1. Consideration
In addition to the other obligations in this agreement, the parties enter this agreement in consideration of:
(a) Auran providing you the Auran Download Station service (for such time as it decides in its absolute discretion); and
(b) you granting Auran those rights set out below.

2. Auran's rights
2.1 Grant of license
With regard to all your New Works uploaded to the Auran Download Station, you grant to Auran a personal, transferable but non-exclusive license to those New Works in order that Auran can redistribute the New Works to third parties:
(a) by making the New Works available for download from the Auran Download Station for free or for payment;
(b) by including the New Works on a CDROM or DVDROM (or other storage medium) that is made publicly available for sale or that is given away; or
(c) both (a) and (b).
2.2 No conveyance
The grant of the license in clause 2.1 ("Grant of license") is not and cannot be deemed to be a sale, transfer or any other conveyance of your intellectual property rights held in the New Works.
2.3 Rights to remove
Auran retains the right to remove any or all of your New Works from the Auran Download Station at any time and for any reason.
You can contact Auran and request that Auran remove all or any of your New Works from the Auran Download Station but Auran is under no obligation to do so.

3. Warranties
You warrant to Auran and its Representatives and Related Entities that the New Works that you upload to the Auran Download Station:
(a) are free from all computer viruses;
(b) do not infringe any copyright, patent, trademark or other intellectual property rights of any person;
(c) do not contain any 3D meshes, textures or other computer files created or distributed by Auran that have not been substantially modified; and
(d) are appropriate for download by all members (including minors) of the Planet Auran community.

4. Indemnity
You acknowledge that Auran is in no way responsible for the New Works and can in no way be considered liable for any of their contents. In addition to this limitation, you agree to indemnify Auran for all loss, damage and costs that Auran may suffer or incur arising out of:
(a) Auran's distribution of your New Works; or
(b) in respect of any claim made or legal or regulatory action brought against Auran arising out of or relating to any of your New Works.
Auran does not and will not indemnify you for any loss or damage suffered arising from:
(c) your use of the Auran Download Station;
(d) you uploading New Works to the Auran Download Station; or
(e) Auran allowing third parties to download your New Works.

 

[skidmark22]

I apologize for my stupid remarks Ian. I just have trouble grasping the whole concept. I just hope someone gets this whole thing up and running and get the support from trainzers that will take to work.

About the search filters though, I don't have filters in my search for "works"/"don't work". I do have for "faulty" but again, some faulty ones work and some don't. I have learned to stay away from locos and rolling stock made for TS2004. Most of those don't work in 2009. :'(

 

[chorina]

My Thoughts Re Faulty or Missing Dependents

Hi, I do agree in principal re the original authors content etc., how ever as a large number of Trainzer's have kept up with technology and updated their versions of Trainz as and when they have become available - my thoughts are:-
There is nothing worse than doing a search through Download Station and seeing a Route that looks interesting by the description or what-ever, downloading it - only to find that it may be missing some files or they are faulty - it fair bug me - time wasting on the down loading and the Route will not operate properly.
If the author does not want the user to "fix" the problem then remove the faulty items from the DS.
Another option would be for 'AURAN' to set up in the Download Station - sub headings for the various version and then if for example myself with 2010 version downloading something from 2004 - then I have no room to moan if there is an issue. In saying that if something was created in 2004 version but will operate without any faults etc. in 2010 then it can be placed in that sub heading.

Regards
Chorina

 

[Azol]

If the author does not want the user to "fix" the problem then remove the faulty items from the DS.

That would be wrong thing to do, because those items work nicely in TRS2004, 2006 etc.

Adding a filter by Trainz build is viable and reasonable solution.

 

[ianwoodmore]

Skidmark

Most of the loco and rolling stock defects can be fixed too.

• PM2IM conversions
• Provide shadows
• Filepath errors
• garbage in config file etc
• cloning errors for many attachment problems can also be fixed by correcting the config file rather than the mesh.

I'm not tackling the espec or sound issues with steam. That's beyond my expertise and there are others in these forums who are working on these issues.

Similarly, if the mesh is corrupt or incomplete only the author is going to be able to fix.

The information and tutorials that I hope to publish will asist Trainzers to do these repairs.

I have also designed a range of custom filters that will assist you to select and use the correct repair scheme using keywords appended to tag category-keyword in the config file.



Chorina,

The DLS has to be generic. Don't forget there is a different relationship between each Trainzers installation and the DLS that depends on the version of Trainz you have and the assets in your TAD. For instance for a TRS2006 user the number of obsolete assets is far different to my TS2010 maxi instal. What are obsoletes is not determined until your CMP/CM has checked the DLS asset dump list. Similarly with Missing Assets. Any filtering needs to be at the CM end. You already have minimum build search filter in Ts2009/10. I have customised that so you can select assets in any version either downloaded or on DLS. So once you have D/Ld you can determine what is faulty or has warnings by Trainz Version. Unfortunately, you cannot currently tell if an asset is faulty prior to D/L, only if it is obsolete. What I think might be possible is providing more info in the dump lists to indicate some of the error codes. These could be determined by applying the current validation process to DLS legacy assets.

 

[American_Connections]

The truth

That would be wrong thing to do, because those items work nicely in TRS2004, 2006 etc.

Adding a filter by Trainz build is viable and reasonable solution.

I agree with you, the asset should stay for what the creator made them for! What they need to do is make the program operate with all assets!

 

[ianwoodmore]

Deleted. Forum went walkabout

 

[ianwoodmore]

American_Connections,

That's Ok if author made the asset correctly and in compliance with the CCG in the first place. As I said before most of my fixes for any version of Trainz have been accomplished using TRS2004 CCG which has a lot of commonalty with the UTC CCP. The legacy asset would then work with the Trainz program, with few exceptions, no matter what later trainzbuild you have. I've proved that.

The key issue and the whole reason why DLS Clean up and Project TARM become necessities is that authors have produced non-compliant assets even for the original Trainz versions. Just because the tools available in earlier Trainz versions didn't advise you that they were faulty does not make them any less so.

With the new validation baseline the number of new defects has been markedly reduced, even allowing for the DLS upload hiccups. The rot has been stemmed, at least on the DLS. So the challenge is to make the whole Trainz asset repository as clean as possible.

 

[American_Connections]

Approval

American_Connections,

That's Ok if author made the asset correctly and in compliance with the CCG in the first place. As I said before most of my fixes for any version of Trainz have been accomplished using TRS2004 CCG which has a lot of commonalty with the UTC CCP...quote]
OK, sorry I got my Irish up! I see your point and is a good approach. What get to me is, as I am understanding it, the newest versions what to make everything for earlier versions unusable. Maybe I am not seeing to complete picture here, your words really do make sense!

 

[American_Connections]

Correction

Deleted. Forum went walkabout

Since 2000, the world has went walkabout!

 

[ianwoodmore]

I prefer to think of it as vehicle that has collected a bit of grime and some rattles since new. During your warrant of fitness (CM validation) you were advised that you needed to have some work done to comply with the latest regulations for roadworthiness (CCG/Wiki). You can clean your car yourself (own maintenance) or get help by using a carwash (DLS Cleanup/Author Updates asset), but there are some things you either need a mechanic to fix for you (Config File substitution), or you need a DIY maintenance manual to do the repairs(TARL and TARG in conjunction with PEVs Tools).

 

[American_Connections]

Fixed or adjusted

I prefer to think...quote]
First on the list has to be proper guidelines so there will not be errors in the first place!

 

[skidmark22]

Is the TARG up and running and where might I find it?

 

[DeDR77]

At first a big thank you to Ian to start with such an approach! I just stumbled over this thread while searching for - guess what - guides to fix faulty assets after migrating stuff from 06 to 10...

May I add my 2 cents to this discussion. What I really miss in the Trainz community is the OpenSource idea. Trainz life could be much easier and the DLS would show much more diversity, when assets not only would be free of charge but also free for modifications and redistribution. How many of us have re-skins locally and can't/want publish them because of restrictive licenses? How many hours people spend to fix the same errors again and again instead of using that time to learn new things and publish them? Where all the nice free tools we use every day would be, when software developers would think the same way!

Reading all the above, the conclusion is: We probably can't change some creators minds - they may do it on their own, or leave it. We only can - and must - respect their standpoint. But, I'm sure there are many around that think different, so why not starting with it? Let's get a bit visionary: I think it's on Auran to start and support an OpenSource initiative, and on us to ask for such as loud as possible. My suggestions would be:
First, add official (!) support for Blender instead of looking into 3DSmax only. The mesh importer is a good starting point - but actually I'd expect more from a vendor that heavily relies on the user base to create content.
Second, establish an OpenSource-only-DLS in addition to the current, so people have a choice (different databases probably also would make an admin life easier here). This OpenSource-DLS along with an adjusted CMP-extension should be designed to allow modifications on any existing asset, including an easy way to re-publish changes as a new version under the same ID (in case of a fix/improvement) or a new model with a new ID (such as reskins) without involving the original creator. Such behaviour may requires some check-out/check-in functionality to make it bullet proof. This setup of course must imply that creators and any contributor get the credit of their peace of work. To make it working, creators who like to publish that way, must agree on an open source license model, such as CreativeCommons share-alike or GPL, and also must be forced to upload the sources. Anyway, I guess such an initiative would have the potential to create a much stronger, real community - at least for those that think the same way...

Reasonable?

Regards - Dirk

 

[ianwoodmore]

Skidmark

TARG is targetted for Jun 2010 but may appear earlier. Depends on getting the Trainz Community website organised.
Repair Procedures will appear progressively. I've got a bit of learning to do with a tutorial program to make the procedures more user friendly.

 

[meridious]

I've been following this thread since the beginning and I must commend you on trying to do this. I have taken the time to fix my faulty content.

I must point out that I think it is entirely useless for creators to do this when the so called "fixes" that are done prove to not be correct.

Not counting Paint Shed items, I found around 12 pieces of my content that showed to be faulty. Some of these were mistakes in the config. I corrected everything for the build I was in (38017) and CM2 showed absolutely no errors. After uploading the DLS, I get replies telling me of errors in the config files for a few of them. I have since fixed the ones that came back as having errors and will try to upload those again.

I took the time to update to build 40040 and reloaded everything. Once again, CM showed absolutely no errors with this content. I've read quite a few times from the Auranites about not having double standards for creating content. This is complete Bull you know what. When content manager shows no errors and the dls does, that is a double standard.

What exactly is the point of taking ones time to update and/or fix content ? If CM shows no errors, then how come when uploaded, it gets rejected for errors. Makes no sense for anyone to want to fix their content.

 

[WindWalkr]

If CM shows no errors, then how come when uploaded, it gets rejected for errors.

You don't give any specifics, so I can't say for sure. I'm assuming, since you haven't said otherwise, that the error reports returned from the DLS were valid and not something spurious.

My guess would be that the version of the validation tool on the DLS is newer than the one that you are running locally, and thus is providing more accurate results. I'm not aware of anything specific that has been changed, but this is the best guess that I can make from the information that you have provided.

chris

 

[meridious]

Ok, fair enough. Here is an example.....

The addition of your content file sharp_curves1.cdp has failed due to the following reasons:

<kuid2:87907:23135:1> : The tag 'name' in container 'scenery' is empty.

My guess would be that the version of the validation tool on the DLS is newer than the one that you are running locally, and thus is providing more accurate results.

And we can't have this why ? Basically, what I read out of this is that we will continue to be frustrated because our versions show no errors and yours does. Some of us are really trying to come to grasps with native mode but it sure doesn't help when we get things like this. I may not always agree with everything that Auran does but I'm still here after 7 years which means I still support Trainz.