could someone translate that?
Article: What is the “next” big thing for Trainz?
- Thread starter Tony_Hilliam
- Start date
Well. you are supposed to know who YOU give access to modify a route. I see multiplayer surveyor as a plus for groups to work on large route projects. I was involved in just such a project for TRS2006. It would have been helpful to have more than one of our team to be able to work on the route at the same time. Parallel work would have been much faster than the serial modifying we had to do, passing the massive route files back and forth.
Having a built-in DEM capability would be a major step forward in creating a realistic route.
Hi,
1. Surveyor tools have been suggested by me many times over, so I'll leave that to Tony and company!
2. On multiplayer, not your cup of tea, so there's no point here -- It's a matter of choices, and I'm glad it is there for those who wishes to use it, since I suggested it back in the old forum before the big crash!
3. TransDem, suggested this too years ago, but I think N3V taken their time because Geophil has done a great job -- Nonetheless, N3V needs to sooner or later take a long hard look into such a feature.
4. Multiplayer Surveyor is NOT a bad idea -- Again, it's about choices ... I just don't understand why folks knock an idea simply because it's not their cup of tea -- I say, ask groups or just two good friends who want to share building a layout together, about it ...
Regards
Ish
charlieencin
New member
"When one is oriented to drive trains than appearance of landscape maybe seems less important. But when you are oriented on beauty of landscape you don’t need miles of routes, you need a little square of your own world of lakes, hills, villages, roads, fields, gardens and TILED GROUNDS".( Sorry, I should give credit to the owner of the quote, I forgot to note that.
I agree with the statement above, as I tend toward more detail, and much smaller routes, but that's just to my liking. To each his own.
The only way to approach this would, in my opinion, be to give a very detailed explanation of how NEXT would work, even with a lengthy demo. I have often thought, with my own amateurish route attempts, others could offer suggestions,on how to improve them. For that input, a reasonable fee would be worth it to me, monthly, yearly...I keep an open mind on that subject.
I would love to get into Transdem, but even the routes that I have downloaded... designed in that way, are sorely lacking in detail, at least to my eyes. Of course Moore's comes into play. With my old Radeon 6950, I even have to forgo shadows. Oh well.
Cheers all
Chuck
I agree with the statement above, as I tend toward more detail, and much smaller routes, but that's just to my liking. To each his own.
The only way to approach this would, in my opinion, be to give a very detailed explanation of how NEXT would work, even with a lengthy demo. I have often thought, with my own amateurish route attempts, others could offer suggestions,on how to improve them. For that input, a reasonable fee would be worth it to me, monthly, yearly...I keep an open mind on that subject.
I would love to get into Transdem, but even the routes that I have downloaded... designed in that way, are sorely lacking in detail, at least to my eyes. Of course Moore's comes into play. With my old Radeon 6950, I even have to forgo shadows. Oh well.
Cheers all
Chuck
If they did that it might kill off Transdem and geophils income from it, he is the undisputed expert, I doubt that anyone at N3V has anywhere near as much skill if any in that area.
The sensible solution would be to bundle Transdem with Trainz and pay geophil accordingly. Those who bother to look at TrainzDev might have noticed that it may now be possible to integrate some Transdem aspects into TANE in the future, which I would guess Roland is looking into. http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?128929-Trainz-Native-Interface
All this extra stuff people are requesting?
Firstly it shows they have not got a clue just how complex coding a simulator is.
Secondly you are in danger of overloading with eye candy gizmos and not wishing to upset anyone but put bluntly, tools for the lazy who can't be bothered to spend the time to learn how to use what's already available properly and ending up with a cludged up poorly performing simulator that only people with extremely high end PC's will be able to derive any benefit from....... maybe. Surveyor as it is, is streets ahead of any other builtin simulator editor I've ever come across, it's a shame that more don't learn how to use it properly, pointy mountains and checkerboard textures being typical examples.
Granted extra tools may make it easier to do things however if the creator has not got the artistic and technical ability to design a good route, fancy tools won't make a childs scribble into a Rembrandt.
There is far more satisfaction in doing something yourself than having an auto-generated version.
I'll get my coat....
I'll confess that I wasn't overly keen on multiplayer surveyor (I prefer collaborative surveyor) until I got to play with it in Trainz Dev. Now I believe it would be a real boon for those wanting to collaborate on a route. It would require some discipline to manage areas being developed but I don't see that as a real issue.
If they did that it might kill off Transdem and geophils income from it, he is the undisputed expert, I doubt that anyone at N3V has anywhere near as much skill if any in that area.
The sensible solution would be to bundle Transdem with Trainz and pay geophil accordingly. Those who bother to look at TrainzDev might have noticed that it may now be possible to integrate some Transdem aspects into TANE in the future, which I would guess Roland is looking into. http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?128929-Trainz-Native-Interface
All this extra stuff people are requesting?
Firstly it shows they have not got a clue just how complex coding a simulator is.
Secondly you are in danger of overloading with eye candy gizmos and not wishing to upset anyone but put bluntly, tools for the lazy who can't be bothered to spend the time to learn how to use what's already available properly and ending up with a cludged up poorly performing simulator that only people with extremely high end PC's will be able to derive any benefit from....... maybe. Surveyor as it is, is streets ahead of any other builtin simulator editor I've ever come across, it's a shame that more don't learn how to use it properly, pointy mountains and checkerboard textures being typical examples.
Granted extra tools may make it easier to do things however if the creator has not got the artistic and technical ability to design a good route, fancy tools won't make a childs scribble into a Rembrandt.
There is far more satisfaction in doing something yourself than having an auto-generated version.
I'll get my coat....
Malc, what you seem to suggest here is for trainz to stop evolving all together. I have trainz 1.3, and if you have it too, install it sir, and compare it to TANE; And you will see how far trainz has come since those days to what it is now .... Like from Dos, Windows 3.1, to windows 10, and basically everything in life progress cannot be stop! See, I suggested the suggestion forum years ago for the so purpose to push ideas to N3V without being in the meeting table! Many ideas that has come to trainz has come from there, ex Multiplayer surveyor, which I know you are not a fan of, but it's progress for trainz. Ttrainz needs to grow in every way possible, or it will loose it's customer base, and not bring new customers in. May job as an outsider is NOT to understand how coding works, but to suggest ideas, and then let them sort out what will work, or not, what's doable and what is not, etc ...
Now, you keep defending Transdem and geophils, and that's fine, he has done a wonderful job, but you're selling Chris and Tony short, as if they don't know how to do programming, etc ... Trainz needs a dedicated Transdem regardless of Geophis, works, simply because trainz does. Goephis, at anytime, can just simply close shop, and we are left with nothing, or he can be hit by a lightning bolt, and we'll be left with nothing. This is why trainz needs Transdem in some capacity in the future. This is just simply progress. Maybe Trandem can be bundle with trainz down the road, which is an option, of course for N3V, and they have done that before, but putting feelings aside, creating routes and having transdem package together in any trainz product in years to come is a necessary!
As for computer upgrades, I say, today's pc come quite equip to for most games, and now that everyone has done that for TANE I don't see this as an issue.
Also, I think these video tutorials are helping folks out here understand how trainz works ...
Lastly, N3V is known for packing different bundles of trainz product, meaning .... they can always sell a basic version!
Ish
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I never said that Trainz could not evolve, If I thought that I wouldn't be in TrainzDev and I never said anything about N3V's coding ability either but was referring to the knowledge required to design a Transdem replacement, for which, if you want it to actually work well needs someone with a background in that area, geodata, dem's, mapping etc and not just the ability to code but capability to develop what is effectively a non game aspect for inclusion in a game if you follow. I can code but I couldn't code a Transdem replacement or a railway simulator and it was mainly in Linux anyway, consequently I am appreciative of what N3V have achieved even if it did take a lot longer than we were expecting.
Lets look at animated people, nice idea but any idea what of the loading of let's say 200 animated people getting off a train and walking off the station would be?
Try this, start fraps, load a 1200 poly or thereabouts static figure in the TANE preview, here I get 75 FPS, now select the performance option which loads hundreds of assets on one board, frame rate drops to 25 FPS pretty much expected.
Now do this with a 1200 poly animated figure frame rate 75FPS again for 1 figure but on the performance setting it drops to a magnificent 1 FPS.
Obviously this wouldn't be as bad on an actual route but the more animated objects you have the bigger the performance hit, If I can only get 1fps using a GTX98TI and i7-6700K heaven help those on mid range or low end PC's.
Granted this has been done I think on one of the Subway Simulators but bear in mind they are not dealing with a possible 15000m draw distance and thousands of assets covering the terrain it's underground with very little scenery overhead.
Do we want a realistic Railway simulator that works on affordable hardware or a simulator with an extremely restricted draw distance to compensate for the increased loading of lots of people wandering around? Remember the restricted draw distance in TS12, we don't want to go down that road again.
Actually I do have the original Trainz Demo, did nothing for me at the time so never bothered following it up until 2008 when I stumbled on the DHR website while looking for something else.
I'd like animated sheep and cows wandering around as well but it's not IMO yet a practical option.
So lets have some less extreme sensible suggestions such as an improved paint brush, better Train physics and an easier way of creating engine specs in particular Steam engine Specs, Improving the lighting from street lamps etc, sorting out those shadows properly so they do not produce flickering jagged lines. An indication of what layer you are working on and an indication of the session your are working on in surveyor if you have several of them, would be useful, I just screwed up one by opening and working on the wrong session thinking it was a different one, luckily a quick backup restore sorted that but you get the idea.
Lets look at animated people, nice idea but any idea what of the loading of let's say 200 animated people getting off a train and walking off the station would be?
Try this, start fraps, load a 1200 poly or thereabouts static figure in the TANE preview, here I get 75 FPS, now select the performance option which loads hundreds of assets on one board, frame rate drops to 25 FPS pretty much expected.
Now do this with a 1200 poly animated figure frame rate 75FPS again for 1 figure but on the performance setting it drops to a magnificent 1 FPS.
Obviously this wouldn't be as bad on an actual route but the more animated objects you have the bigger the performance hit, If I can only get 1fps using a GTX98TI and i7-6700K heaven help those on mid range or low end PC's.
Granted this has been done I think on one of the Subway Simulators but bear in mind they are not dealing with a possible 15000m draw distance and thousands of assets covering the terrain it's underground with very little scenery overhead.
Do we want a realistic Railway simulator that works on affordable hardware or a simulator with an extremely restricted draw distance to compensate for the increased loading of lots of people wandering around? Remember the restricted draw distance in TS12, we don't want to go down that road again.
Actually I do have the original Trainz Demo, did nothing for me at the time so never bothered following it up until 2008 when I stumbled on the DHR website while looking for something else.
I'd like animated sheep and cows wandering around as well but it's not IMO yet a practical option.
So lets have some less extreme sensible suggestions such as an improved paint brush, better Train physics and an easier way of creating engine specs in particular Steam engine Specs, Improving the lighting from street lamps etc, sorting out those shadows properly so they do not produce flickering jagged lines. An indication of what layer you are working on and an indication of the session your are working on in surveyor if you have several of them, would be useful, I just screwed up one by opening and working on the wrong session thinking it was a different one, luckily a quick backup restore sorted that but you get the idea.
I'll leave it at this point, sir, before we start going in circles, LOL ...
I enjoy trainz because it has a platform upon to grow on, and we have seen this through the years with Ian "Vulcan" thread "New Aircraft", who has done an incredible job with planes; As well as Boats, if folks are into boating. for example; Or even driving, as we can create vass highways and roads, and drive on them; And cities for buses ... Trainz has a sprinkle of everything, and because of that ability trainz should never be look at as a limited sims software, or a software that should be held back. Trainz, I think, would be one of those games that can have a long fruitful life, but it still has ways to grow! If trainz represents a tree, that tree is still growing, and haven't even blossom yet. Yes, I can bore you with a list of features it's lacking, but we all know what they are. Time will tell with Trainz "Next", and there after!
Ish
I enjoy trainz because it has a platform upon to grow on, and we have seen this through the years with Ian "Vulcan" thread "New Aircraft", who has done an incredible job with planes; As well as Boats, if folks are into boating. for example; Or even driving, as we can create vass highways and roads, and drive on them; And cities for buses ... Trainz has a sprinkle of everything, and because of that ability trainz should never be look at as a limited sims software, or a software that should be held back. Trainz, I think, would be one of those games that can have a long fruitful life, but it still has ways to grow! If trainz represents a tree, that tree is still growing, and haven't even blossom yet. Yes, I can bore you with a list of features it's lacking, but we all know what they are. Time will tell with Trainz "Next", and there after!
Ish
Culburrarail
New member
As an avid Model trainer I lept upon Trainz, MSTS and TS04, TS06, TS09, TS12 and now T:ane. All I ever wanted to do was build a model train layout, a basic circle but rather large with as many interactive industries as possible and run as many UK profile Steam engines as possible. But all attempts to run trains with functioning signaling failed. After hours of watching trains run suddenly one would start to go in reverse.
It looks as if T:ane has allowed me to do this BUT all those lovely Steam engines have been reduced to just a few, I really miss the 9f's. Gresley A3 and A4. Also there are not many UK Coaching stocks with functioning doors.
I tried to export stuff from the various simulators and am told they cannot be imported as they use incompatible software yet the age old MS Platform still works!
If The Next version does not include UK steam I wont be purchasing, and if Next goes subscription I will stick with all my old versions and try make some work rounds for the experienced problems.
It looks as if T:ane has allowed me to do this BUT all those lovely Steam engines have been reduced to just a few, I really miss the 9f's. Gresley A3 and A4. Also there are not many UK Coaching stocks with functioning doors.
I tried to export stuff from the various simulators and am told they cannot be imported as they use incompatible software yet the age old MS Platform still works!
If The Next version does not include UK steam I wont be purchasing, and if Next goes subscription I will stick with all my old versions and try make some work rounds for the experienced problems.
jjanmarine3
Active member
Yep....bring on the steam engines please...more large garrats would be greatly appreciated too..there can never be enough steam loco's...
Not sure why you are surprised that they couldn't import. Unless you have the original mesh files and create Trainz compatible files, files made for other simulators will not work. This is normal. And what does the fact that the old MS sim still works have to do with this? Unless you have a software/hardware incompatibility issue, old programs will still work. My old UTC still works too. Rather limited compared to T:ANE but that's just technological progress.
EverTrainz
Electric Blue
Bit late to kick this around in the dirt but here goes, what we really need is more atmosphere, a simple .wav file that plays at the same reverb level and EQ in both a tunnel and a large open field is not really true to the atmosphere. Ambient sounds, city sounds? Stations have some human sounds, which are old, and to me sound something short of a demonic summoning. All my experiences with trying to import stereo hornsounds have gone sour, yet stereo is the way to really bring about depth perception espescially in a game where you could have a few trains behind you, a couple up front, and some to either side of you. Some more Surveyor tools couldn't hurt, weather too, which ties back into my atmosphere point. If we can get these and stabilize, we'd be good competition for the other simulator. I've always had a burning hatred for subscription models, but am fine if it's just for the multiplayer collaboration idea.
The earliest version of Trainz I have is UTC. How much has Trainz evolved since then? You could probably count any real changes one one hand. Working industries and passenger stations, steam locos, 5m grid, and procedural switches. That's about it. Even MSTS had procedural switches taken TRS a long time to catch up. There is still no proper dynamic brake sound or function. You can put the throttle to neutral then dynamic brake to full, no wheel slip! Very realistic. What is really needed is more efficient game engine. Compared to RS and Train Simulator Trainz performs poorly. I can max out the graphics and still get 30fps minimum. If I tried that in T10 or Tane I'd a real slide show.
lockheed02
Member
maybe I missed it ... but so far I see that Multiplayer Surveyor feature and ... anything else included in that Game Changer? I mean, there are many players, focusing on different aspects (creation be it free/pay, driving, multiplayer - to get the major ones). I'm basically fine with breaking downward compatibility if it moves on the game. Some kind of import/convert to "Next Gen asset" level would be helpful. Also a nice mean to clean up obsolete assets.
However, anything else that could be revealed already? Be it tech or content related.
However, anything else that could be revealed already? Be it tech or content related.
curious, Lockheed
I couldn't care less for new features. Honestly there are enough really. I just want a version of Trainz that simply "Just works". And a DLS that is refined to make it much easier to install content. Half of my playtime is spent on fixing tiny issues that break so many routes and content. Improvement on Multiplayer would also be great.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
In terms of the content fixing side there are already processes happening on the Download Station front. In terms of downloading content, it's fairly simple with T:ANE anyway using Content Manager.
Shane
