AI and Signal Issue

A

Alowrie

New member
Consumed all my brain power today between playing around with drivers, consists, track markers, direction markers and i'm getting stumped with how to solve this.

Using RRSignal's Searchlight Signals, in basic mode for now while I figure this out.

This is part of a main line, tracks are bi-directional. Signals at interlock are 3-headed at all 4 points, and there are single-headed signals in each direction a few km down the track.
Train 2 for example needs to crossover from the south track to the north track.
What is happening is Train 2 will lock JS1 and JN1 without issues or slow downs and proceed through the crossover and down the track.
Train 1 will lock JN1 and even JN2 but will stop fully at the SL3 signal in front of the interchange before it locks JS2, gets the green light and starts forward again through the interlock.



Train 1
[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]SL3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]JN1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]JN2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]SL3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]/[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]\[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]/[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]\[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]/[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]\[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]SL3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]JS1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]JS2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]SL3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Train 2



Could just be my inexperience in route building as I am new to Trainz again since 2006 and I have focused most of my time on laying track for my first DEM section, but i wanted to test running some AI on the track I have laid out with the real life signal placement.
I recreated this in a test route but even with track direction taken into consideration (which, will track direction affect the AI's navigation ability that much?) the results were the same.
What am I missing?

EDIT: Added image for reference
image.jpg
 
Last edited:
Is the signal guarding JS2 facing the same direction as the ones guarding JS1 and 2? It shouldn't. I would say no based on the screenshot, but the description had me confused. Only the entrances of interlockings are guarded in modern signalling.

Is the signal at JN1 set to Basic mode? It shouldn't be. There's an intervening junction between it and the crossover it's protecting, so Basic mode isn't sufficient. It needs to be able to find the next named signal on the south track, facing the same direction in order to be able to figure a speed and track occupancy for the route. This is also true for JS2. The distant signal can be an invisible one if you need that - just be sure it's named and facing the correct direction.
 
Thanks for the reply. I should've just slept on it before asking for help but I'll try to explain it so hopefully it makes sense.
Here is a top down view:
Top track is westbound, bottom track is eastbound, but trains travel in both directions on both tracks.
A SL with 3 heads guards each interlock entrance. 2-3km down each track in each direction is a single-headed SL.
I set the signals to advanced and had them look to the next automatic signal 2-3km down the line for each track.
The south track train heading westbound rolled through, and also switched to crossover to the north track with no problems and followed correct speed. Signal indicated Clear on straight through (Green, Red, Red).
The westbound train on the top track had the issues where it locked junctions NE then NW in this image, but fully stopped at the signal before finally locking SW and proceeding through the crossover to the south track and carry on westward at half speed. Signal indicated Limited Clear? on straight through(Red, Flashing Green, Red). Shouldn't both signals display the same Clear aspect?

I had considered using invisible signals to try and fix this.
Where would the invisible signal be placed? Between junctions NW-NE on the top track, or between SW-NW on the
crossover track?
Thanks!



image.jpg
 
I placed the invisible signal on the crossover track from North to South which alleviates the AI driver from stopping at the signal before proceeding through the crossover. He does slow down to half the speed limit though, rolls through the signal then accelerates again. Is that normal?
 
A train going straight i.e. not taking the turnout is the one that should be getting a clear signal (G/R/R). A train taking the turnout should be getting a slower speed i.e. Medium Clear, Limited Clear, etc. I don't think that's the cause of the issue but that's how real trains run so try setting it up that way.

The only thing I can think of that would cause that behavior is if BOTH switches on the crossover i.e. NW and SW are not set correctly. If SW is out of correspondence with NW, then you will see the kind of behavior you're seeing. Try re-placing the junction lever or, failing that, the junction entirely.

I can provide you my test route, if you want. It's exact same layout as yours, but maybe it can help you debug the issue.
 
I used 5 mph speedboards, and an AI train would hunt and peck through turnouts, no matter how many invisible signals I placed

I think that is just how defective AI works ... I rarely use 10 mph speedboards, as AI goes in a 10 mph speezone: 10, 6,12,15, 9, 5,12 ... etc...etc ...etc ...
 
Placing the invisible signal and switching to advanced config gives the correct aspect now.
I've read many posts about AI complaints, so the half speed slow down 500m prior to the signal might not be an issue as this crossover may not even get used much or at all by the AI. More about learning the AIs limitations with programming schedules and how they perform and interactions with signals, etc.
This crossover is prior to a few sidings attached to the mainline about 5km down the track and I expect it to not even be used.
Thanks for all the help!
 
A suggestion.

The asset "juction Controller v3 <Kuid2:453099:100084:2> might help alleviate the situation as well. It links juctions together so that they switch as a set. This would force the 3rd turnout(SW) to switch with the 2nd turnout(NW) thus giving a clear path before the stop and switch you are getting.
 
Hi Guys. I messed with this problem for many many hours and came to the conclusion that it can get very complicated with little results. I guess its just the way the software works. I did solve the problem of crossovers, yard navigation, yard entries and exits by not asking the software to set the points thru multiple points. I use a trackmark prior to "points task" and get the consist to drive via this trackmark. If a crossover is not required, dont drive via the trackmark. Just after this in your AI controls, use set path to change the points and the consist will never slow down or stall. You also dont need inv signals. On the other side of the crossover, create another trackmark where clear and to set the points back. Drive via the second trackmark and set path again. Its not fool proof but its the best way I have found and works 95% of the time. Software still buggers it up sometimes. Good luck. Hope this helps.
 
The junction controller is an interesting asset but doesn't function the way that I want in this situation. The AI switches the first crossover junction after passing it but because the second junction is locked the controller cannot switch it back; then because the AI never actually switched the second junction(the controller did), after passing it the AI leaves it open, so in this situation not effective.
Can I have access to your test route for analysis rrsignal?
@OldGuy: as I'm only starting to lay track on the route I haven't dove headfirst into session creation and fine tuning AI yet, but after a quick look the Path rule it appears it may solve the crossover conundrum.
 
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