A Sad End to an Epic Run for Me with Trainz.

The company was never this distant. Up until pretty recently, it wasn't uncommon to see some kind of interaction from the CEO Tony Hilliam or the lead developer coming in here to see how the community is doing, in particular after a product release. It was a totally different environment, I agree.

I became a Plus member when it was offered through TRS2019. Back then, there was no exclusive club and beta-testing was a sign-up type thing or they contacted us because we beta tested previously. We did get to put our 2 Schekels in on new product improvements though, but testing was still done through a sign-up process. In my opinion, this was a far more diligent testing method because people were there to beta test and not get the latest program version as happens a lot as we see on Steam. It was after we had gone through the testing cycle multiple times that the product went to public testing and we put in our 2-cents and more before it moved to the final stages. This is how TRS19 became a really stable product compared to T: ANE which seriously was released too soon. TRS22 started this way then they went to the PLUS-members-only beta scheme and that hasn't been good. To be fair, there is some internal testing of new products, but it's not the same as having multiple parties test the product before a public testing which PLUS-members-only really is.

Today, there's a real disconnect from the users. It never used to be this way and I don't know why this changed. I do know that they spend most of their time over at Discord but many of us don't spend time there, and what we perceive as no interaction is only applicable to the forums. While I am a member there and with other servers, I find the interface tiring to read and disorganized even with the sub-channels due to how fast the threads move.

Anyway, I've been involved with technology since at least 1980. I am retired from IT and worked in that aspect since 1988 when I moved from a hardware technician role to MIS where I managed 4 VAXs, two Sun Server clusters, and a bunch of Unix based servers. After that it was Novell and later Windows NT, OS/2, and Linux along with performing senior tech support as a network administrator. As a hardware technician, I repaired everything from video terminals to modems using oscilloscopes, DVMs and automatic test equipment. This was before surface mount became commonplace and components could be easily seen and manipulated on circuit boards.

I some ways, I miss the tech world, but I don't miss the constant stress. In my final position, I supported nearly 720 users with 680 in-house and 37 in the field. I was closing 350 tickets a week and I was told I wasn't keeping up and was going to be terminated due to 50 tickets open in my queue. With ongoing health issues, I used that opportunity to throw in the towel.

So, as far as PLUS being an exclusive club with direct access to the developers, I don't see it that way. Things have just changed internally in the company.

I already have some subscriptions with one being much, much more expensive. This is for Sibelius, an Avid product for music editing. The subscription pays for their support and "free upgrades", which of course is free like the so-called "free DLC and FCT" offered for PLUS.

Unlike many users, I don't see these offers as "free" but as part of the package just like Xfinity offering HBO and some other exclusive channel together as part of a package. In today's world, free doesn't mean the product is free. There's usually something else attached to it. We see this with everything these days including totally free checking accounts where the offers come with an asterisk leading to a 4 point sized footnote about the account being free of fees only if a certain balance is met.
Thanks for in depth post. I have remained with Auran - N3V with first purchase of UTC. Some may think I am foolish to continue support. I did keep up membership of British Legion and chess subs but now only an online chess one. I shall keep up support through Plus until the fat old ticket collector beckons.
keep well all
S
 
I'm using "LUXURY" Trainz Plus Gold, only always with Surveyor Classic. I personally prefer it better. It's a lot easier, and not as complex as "S20".
 
only always with Surveyor Classic. I personally prefer it better. It's a lot easier, and not as complex as "S20".
True, Classic is a lot easier (and simpler) than S20. I find S20 to be far more powerful and productive than Classic, but that is my opinion. Yours is just as valid.

S20 does have a steep learning curve after years of using Classic but, for me at least, it was worth the long climb.
 
True, Classic is a lot easier (and simpler) than S20. I find S20 to be far more powerful and productive than Classic, but that is my opinion. Yours is just as valid.

S20 does have a steep learning curve after years of using Classic but, for me at least, it was worth the long climb.
S20 sometimes even causes my game to start glitching, and so far, after I got Trainz Plus Gold, I only used it for a few minutes because I didn't even know how to place much down. S10 (Surveyor 1.0, as what I call it) is just pretty much WORTH it.
 
The subscription pays for their support and "free upgrades", which of course is free like the so-called "free DLC and FCT" offered for PLUS.
I must say, I hate it when companies use the term "free".

Like when they say "buy one get one free".
The definition of free is "provided without, or not subject to, a charge or payment: e.g. a free sample." but in order to get the "free" one, you have to pay for the first one which actually means the second one is NOT free at all.

Nit picking, I know, but it just annoys me no end.
 
I must say, I hate it when companies use the term "free".

Like when they say "buy one get one free".
The definition of free is "provided without, or not subject to, a charge or payment: e.g. a free sample." but in order to get the "free" one, you have to pay for the first one which actually means the second one is NOT free at all.

Nit picking, I know, but it just annoys me no end.
I wish we had the 100% similar to this.💯I definitely agree.
 
I must say, I hate it when companies use the term "free".

Like when they say "buy one get one free".
The definition of free is "provided without, or not subject to, a charge or payment: e.g. a free sample." but in order to get the "free" one, you have to pay for the first one which actually means the second one is NOT free at all.

Nit picking, I know, but it just annoys me no end.
We're gonna pick on the nits- because.
If you were going to buy the first one anyway, getting the second one for no extra cost means it is free. You could of coarse just buy the one and refuse to take the second one but who does that hurt?
 
I also don't want them to make an S30 (Surveyor 3.0) because THAT sounds WAY too hard for ME. (or a lot of other users)
Au contraire, when the time is right and the technology has advanced enough to make it worthwhile and new features are developed, I want then to make a S3.0
 
I only used it [S20] for a few minutes because I didn't even know how to place much down. S10 (Surveyor 1.0, as what I call it) is just pretty much WORTH it.

I started exactly the same way with S20. It was, to me at least, a radical departure to what I had been used to for many years. But S20 more closely looks and works like some of my other often used programs, such as GIMP, so it really indicated how far Surveyor Classic was behind the current user interface technology.

All it took was a willingness to use and learn the interface (plus a lot of time - about 12 months) before I was a confident S20 user. Now I very rarely go back to using Classic and that is only to use its Bulk Replace and Update feature which is still superior, in some ways, to the S20 version.

I also don't want them to make an S30 (Surveyor 3.0) because THAT sounds WAY too hard for ME. (or a lot of other users)

Speculation - As long as Surveyor Classic is still available as an option then you won't have to. But I suspect that Surveyor 3.0 (if it comes) will not be a huge leap from S20. At least not as big a change as S20 was from Classic.
 
John, I get what you are saying about N3V being distant. I've seen a lot of recent comments here where there are a lot of users frustrated with the company, but I also see the defenders of the company as well who seem to accept everything as it is. I don't know what it was like in the olden days of Trainz. It's why I get so disillusioned with the franchise it looks like it's intensionally dividing the fanbase. It's again why I have stated I probably won't continue with the next iteration.

When you are a tester then your feedback matters. When companies put favoritism first (as I recently read) I have to put the onus on N3V for that division. When you invest thousands of dollars over the course of years to continue the hobby, yeah a ROI is a right. If leadership has indeed changed, then someone new should take it over that actually cares about the audience. I also feel that N3V is failing upwards which might be why you are seeing . Over promise and under deliver seems to be the company motto.

Bad leadership ruined Atari in the 80s, and toppled the video game world (which Nintendo saved). TellTale games collapsed due to bad leadership. Electronic Arts used to be the renegades of the gaming world as was Activision. Both became juggernauts, and could not care less about their audiences. Same can be said about Rockstar (who caved into the mobs who said remove the Southern Battle flag) and give huge middle fingers to the communities that play in the FiveM world. Giants fall, but so do the small fries.

If N3V folded up, honestly I would not lose sleep over it. If that is callous, well I don't tolerate BS from companies and no one really should especially when so many have spent oodles of money and hours of work. N3v neds to do better and be better as a company and to the community. But what the hell do I know? I'm just an old fart casual gamer anyway.

As a first gen kid who grew up with computers in school (late 70s and the early 80s) mainly the Apple ][ and it's variants it was a new world. I even owned an Apple ][ e I got from my old church. I got into the IT profession 2 years after 9/11 and the crash of the dot coms. Worst mistake was going to college for a degree that did nothing for a career (contract work is not good on the resume nor is sporadic work), and it's why I gave it up. This was over 20 years ago, but I still have the skills to run networks, loathe Micro dollar sign and other corporate stupidity. I still enjoy building computers. I am a huge fan of Linux and open source products as well.

I am familiar with Avid as they make Pro Tools (I call it Slow Tools and Crash Tools, and Craptacular Tools), and I hate that program. When I record music I use Studio One by PreSonus.
 
John, I get what you are saying about N3V being distant. I've seen a lot of recent comments here where there are a lot of users frustrated with the company, but I also see the defenders of the company as well who seem to accept everything as it is. I don't know what it was like in the olden days of Trainz. It's why I get so disillusioned with the franchise it looks like it's intensionally dividing the fanbase. It's again why I have stated I probably won't continue with the next iteration.
There will always be people FOR and Against the Program/company.....
it is a fact of being human.

I don't see why you are making such a song & dance about leaving....If you think doing this will make a change....:ROFLMAO:
 
We're gonna pick on the nits- because.
If you were going to buy the first one anyway, getting the second one for no extra cost means it is free. You could of coarse just buy the one and refuse to take the second one but who does that hurt?
If you have to pay to get access, then it's not free. It really is that simple.
 
I keep reading this "free", but to confirm what someone said somewhere, I don't see the word "free" anywhere. It says with Gold you get "Full DLC Access", so that means it comes with your paid subscription. I am not a subscriber, so I have opted not to have that access, and I purchase just what I want to. Each individual makes a decision what access they want to pay for. This seems to me to be not worth going on about.
 
I keep reading this "free", but to confirm what someone said somewhere, I don't see the word "free" anywhere. It says with Gold you get "Full DLC Access", so that means it comes with your paid subscription. I am not a subscriber, so I have opted not to have that access, and I purchase just what I want to. Each individual makes a decision what access they want to pay for. This seems to me to be not worth going on about.
Indeed. Problem is all of us b*****s are human;)
 
Back
Top