A New Game
- Thread starter Kris94
- Start date
No Creation No FUn, Anywas sure is more realistic then any other sim, but yet its is his early stages... What Trainz Need is basicly jsut a new Game Engine thats all.
NO!!!! They need more realism!!!! Every bell on the train doesn't ring in real life. There is a such thing as DPU in real life. Cars don't weave constantly across the road in real life and it's only if there's a broken line, and if it's safe to do so. And even then there are some restrictions. Cars just don't stop and go through the crossing at will. Cars don't stop into each other and make in look like someone is putting there hand in a clear jar!! That also happens with trains. Trains don't just run off the tracks without flipping over and making noise and train cars actually can break. There's a helluva lot more but that's the ones that piss me off the most.
Hay Kris, if you want more realism, such as trains crashing, breaking, and blowing up, you do realize that that would tax your system more, meaning you would need a better computer. No way around it as the game would need to handle more physics. And besides, this is a train simulator, not a crash simulator.
As for the cars, that's a problem in just about every sim I have seen, even Run8 and Railworks have this issue. But to me, its not a big deal, I don't play Trainz to watch car go driving by, I play it to drive trains.
But back on topic.....
Run8 is very limited on what you can do. As I said in another post, it is not only a new game, but a new company. They, and by they I mean about 3 people (From what I have been told) are the ones who are making content for it. They want to start off by having most every thing payware, to help build the company. Seeing as for them, this is no longer a hobby, but a full time job, I am ok with this. From what I have been told, once Run8 Studios takes off more, they will be releasing tools for user creation of content. But as of right now, as far as I can tell, they are holding back. And I can see why. I mean, why give players tools to make content for free, undermining your source of revenue, right out of the gate. Build up a game, build up a reputation, build up the company. Giving the players what they would like and make the game more incising for new buyers. Then, when well established, allow the players to be more creative, give them the same tools you have. To me, that's a plan that makes sense.
As for my thoughts on the game it's self, I still will pick and play Trainz any day of the week. If any one asks me which one to pick up, TRS12 or Run8, I'll tell them TRS12. But at the same time, I am keeping my eye on Run8. If they keep making improvements, add more content, and keep going on the path they are on, they could be one killer simulator that would rank up there with Microsoft Flight sim's level of details.
As for the cars, that's a problem in just about every sim I have seen, even Run8 and Railworks have this issue. But to me, its not a big deal, I don't play Trainz to watch car go driving by, I play it to drive trains.
But back on topic.....
Run8 is very limited on what you can do. As I said in another post, it is not only a new game, but a new company. They, and by they I mean about 3 people (From what I have been told) are the ones who are making content for it. They want to start off by having most every thing payware, to help build the company. Seeing as for them, this is no longer a hobby, but a full time job, I am ok with this. From what I have been told, once Run8 Studios takes off more, they will be releasing tools for user creation of content. But as of right now, as far as I can tell, they are holding back. And I can see why. I mean, why give players tools to make content for free, undermining your source of revenue, right out of the gate. Build up a game, build up a reputation, build up the company. Giving the players what they would like and make the game more incising for new buyers. Then, when well established, allow the players to be more creative, give them the same tools you have. To me, that's a plan that makes sense.
As for my thoughts on the game it's self, I still will pick and play Trainz any day of the week. If any one asks me which one to pick up, TRS12 or Run8, I'll tell them TRS12. But at the same time, I am keeping my eye on Run8. If they keep making improvements, add more content, and keep going on the path they are on, they could be one killer simulator that would rank up there with Microsoft Flight sim's level of details.
ryanstrains
Moderator
Actually yes it does need a new game engine, the old one is what is holding Trainz back in many ways and would allow them to easily implement a better physics system along with fix the odd bugs here and there.
With crashing though, there should be no need to make it 100% realistic after you crash and have stuff break apart since that is not the goal of the game and would require special models that allow for things to break off, most likely making all the content we have not work.
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Adding my two cents while this thread is still open...
I picked up my copy a few days after the initial release date. Can honestly say that I haven't had that much fun in a train sim for a long time. I will admit that, compared to the big three, it doesn't seem like a lot. Only one route, one engine, and lots of desert. But it isn't necessarily about the content. It's more about the operating experience. It has an entirely different learning curve from the other sims, and as such, can't really be put in the same category.
The biggest appeal to me, aside from the multiplayer, is the operating realism. For a while, I've wanted realistic DPU operation with a train. It would make those mountain runs a lot more fun. Run8 has done just that. The other MFD screens are fully functional, as well. Defect detectors along the route will also randomly give not-so-pleasant reports, causing you to stop your train and fix it. I'm sure the engineer folk on this forum can attest that nobody wants to restart an 8000 ft train uphill. Another cool feature is the ability to join the session as a foamer. Travel around the map and sit by the tracks, watching the trains go by. Gives the other players an excuse to work on their horn signatures. :hehe:
Thanks to the multiplayer, no session I've run so far has been similar to another. Each has its own set of mishaps and adventures. That's what makes this game so fun. You never know what's going to happen when you join a session.
Addressing some concerns: Yes, there isn't a lot in terms of rolling stock and motive power available for the sim right now, but the developers have hinted that this will change in the future. For starters, they're releasing a free update in the next week which will add more rolling stock and scenery. They have also confirmed an Amtrak addon pack is in the works. The owner of DieselsWest has also considered working on content for the game.
As for the rumors about horrible customer service, I don't see where this is coming from. At most, the developers just seem a really sarcastic bunch. Once you get past that, they're quite sociable. They're quite active on the forums, and even host "Run with the developer" sessions from time to time.
I'm not trying to play salesman for this game. I'm just sharing my experience with the game. Others may have had different experiences. As with anything, it's up to you to make the decision. I made mine, and I can say that I don't regret spending that $40. Someone said that Run8 is like a sandwich...the more you put in it, the better it becomes. I see this sim as going places no train sim has gone before. Just needs a little time to mature, is all.
I picked up my copy a few days after the initial release date. Can honestly say that I haven't had that much fun in a train sim for a long time. I will admit that, compared to the big three, it doesn't seem like a lot. Only one route, one engine, and lots of desert. But it isn't necessarily about the content. It's more about the operating experience. It has an entirely different learning curve from the other sims, and as such, can't really be put in the same category.
The biggest appeal to me, aside from the multiplayer, is the operating realism. For a while, I've wanted realistic DPU operation with a train. It would make those mountain runs a lot more fun. Run8 has done just that. The other MFD screens are fully functional, as well. Defect detectors along the route will also randomly give not-so-pleasant reports, causing you to stop your train and fix it. I'm sure the engineer folk on this forum can attest that nobody wants to restart an 8000 ft train uphill. Another cool feature is the ability to join the session as a foamer. Travel around the map and sit by the tracks, watching the trains go by. Gives the other players an excuse to work on their horn signatures. :hehe:
Thanks to the multiplayer, no session I've run so far has been similar to another. Each has its own set of mishaps and adventures. That's what makes this game so fun. You never know what's going to happen when you join a session.
Addressing some concerns: Yes, there isn't a lot in terms of rolling stock and motive power available for the sim right now, but the developers have hinted that this will change in the future. For starters, they're releasing a free update in the next week which will add more rolling stock and scenery. They have also confirmed an Amtrak addon pack is in the works. The owner of DieselsWest has also considered working on content for the game.
As for the rumors about horrible customer service, I don't see where this is coming from. At most, the developers just seem a really sarcastic bunch. Once you get past that, they're quite sociable. They're quite active on the forums, and even host "Run with the developer" sessions from time to time.
I'm not trying to play salesman for this game. I'm just sharing my experience with the game. Others may have had different experiences. As with anything, it's up to you to make the decision. I made mine, and I can say that I don't regret spending that $40. Someone said that Run8 is like a sandwich...the more you put in it, the better it becomes. I see this sim as going places no train sim has gone before. Just needs a little time to mature, is all.
Its not that I don't like it as much as the lack of urgency and willingness of N3V to really use our suggestions to really improve the overall game.
How so? I'm sure accommodations could be made although I think sound effect libraries for crashing would be required.
If you are going to have realistic collisions, every single piece of rolling stock's meshes would need redoing with collision boxes and extra parts to reflect damage and probably scripts, you are talking a lot of work, a few years I would imagine to fix all the DLS items assuming creators are prepared to alter items or create new ones so they can be destroyed by the mindless few. Not to mention a change in the coding of the game engine. Lot of work for a tiny minority of people who are probably using the wrong game if they want damage and mayhem anyway.
kris, I suggest you actually try building content yourself and you'll see what's involved. It's not as simple as "they just make" Trainz do what you want. Stuff like this isn't just added with a few lines of code; it requires reworking all the participating objects such as locomotives so the computer can properly display damage where it's supposed to occur e.g. fullly-textured "damage" meshes, etc. Content creation is involved enough as it is. As Malc said, if you want crashing and explosions, better to find another game.
What do you mean by obvious? DPU capability and bell ringing is something that probably would need alterations at the code level, since AFAIK Trainz treats all running engines as synced; the code would need to offer the option of not syncing engines. Engine starting, fuel use, EOT programming, etc. would have to be done by creators via script, and some already have done some of that, since that involves the actual assets themselves.
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Going back to Run 8, it's probably relatively easy to get things near perfect on a single route with one engine and everything coded into the game, the question is are people going to be able to create routes and their own assets and what additional load will that put on the game engine. Will it cope with a heavily forested areas or large numbers of buildings, will it handle a few dozen consists trundling around.
May well find as with other initially promising projects (not talking just sims) as soon as you start adding stuff, that's when the problems start and often the project grinds to a halt.
I would say that what they are currently selling is not really much more than a beta to test the waters. I also think they need to rephrase the use words like foamer, I suspect that is a bit insulting to US enthusiasts and not something one would expect to see used in a well presented commercial product.
Whatever, probably one to watch over the next couple of years although I doubt it will be of much use to non US users.
May well find as with other initially promising projects (not talking just sims) as soon as you start adding stuff, that's when the problems start and often the project grinds to a halt.
I would say that what they are currently selling is not really much more than a beta to test the waters. I also think they need to rephrase the use words like foamer, I suspect that is a bit insulting to US enthusiasts and not something one would expect to see used in a well presented commercial product.
Whatever, probably one to watch over the next couple of years although I doubt it will be of much use to non US users.
Lets remember a few things guys, one this topic is not meant to flame any one. Two, this topic is meant to discuss Run8.
Yes even I have made an off topic post, but if this becomes a flamewar topic, the mods may lock it. Then well have to start a whole new Run8 Topic. ANd I dont think any one wants to see that.
But as for what Truemac said, I agree. And I also side with what Clam has posted. Its a game that is very much still a "lets see what we can do and what works" sort of thing. But I like that approach to making a game. They now have, from what I can assume, is a large number of people who have bought the game. They can activity play, test, and suggest. The players will really push Run8 in the right direction. Much the way N3V has with Trainz. Yes they dont use all of our ideas, but after years of us players asking we go multiplayer. But slowly we keep getting things that we do ask for. But there are things that we ask for that just cant be implemented. Such as realistic crash's as Kris keep's asking for. N3V has a small team,working on may projects, where as Run8 has a smaller team, working on one project. So if it seams that more gets added to Run8 faster then things get added to Trainz, you should know now why.
ryanstrains
Moderator
Hard headed is what he means. All he is trying to say is that you keep pushing for stuff that is not a simple code fix and is quite time consuming, a game engine has its limits and we have started to reach them.
