A little TransDEM help needed

[HiBaller]

I love this program. I managed to create a 24Km route in about half an hour after I found the right sections of a tutorial. But I now have a question I can't find any method to do - or even if it is possible.

What my route looks like:

And this is what I would like to see:

Could some kind soul point me to the right tutorial or, if there isn't one, is this actually possible?

Bill

 

[oknotsen]

I don't know if it's possible with TransDEM, but you could do it with "baseboard" assets.

What you do is make a screenshots of the area sized 720x720 meters, edit these baseboard assets and put those screenshots in, start the game, load route, turn surveyor into that transparency mode and position those baseboard assets in the right place.

Problem now is that I don't know where or how to find those assets and if they are on the DLS at all (so I made my own). Maybe someone can fill in that gap in my help.

 

[HiBaller]

Oh, I've already done those. I have them on the route in fact. The problem is that now the route is DEM and the baseboards are flat. I guess I should have mentioned that. What I'm looking for is some way to take that Google Earth georeferenced TIFF file and let it settle down over the terrain like snow on the ground, rising and falling with hills and valleys.

When I first did this route, I had a flat route and tried to bring up the hills and drop the valleys and they really stunk. So I gave up, bought TransDEM, and created a DEM version. Of all the tutorials for TransDEM I found a place in them that created 3D tiles. I don't know if this is what I need or not. It doesn't seem so because they only used other databases and their files to create them. I'm wondering if there is a way to use GE georeferenced TIFF or JPG files.

Bill

 

[JCitron]

Bill,

You can do this using the TransDEM generated UTM tiles. I don't know how to do this specifically, but this is what you need to get the desired textures. Trainz textures are limited on how they display so you end up with blotches, though simpler topographic maps come in fine.

John

 

[Jerker]

G'day hiballer,

JCItron has "hit the nail on the head", Bill! As John intimates, your problem is caused by the Trainz baseboard resolution (or "lack of it") that forces any texture "patch" to a 1 pixel per 10 meter 'size'; that is, each pixel of the "texture" used in the 'map' applied to the terrain MUST cover an area of 10 square meters. This can be improved by using the 5 meter grid, which will 'double' the resolution but this still leaves a lot to be desired (and doubles the memory size of the route instantly, although this can be "mitigated" somewhat by using the "Along the route.." option in the TransDEM export stage). To get the best of both worlds, "The Good Doctor" developed the 3D UTM Tile option (there is a tutorial to cover this process in the program's instructions), which is how I recommend you proceed. It also looks like you might not be using the more suitable, built-in, "TransDEM128_mapping.txt" Texture Set (which is also set-up and used in the export dialogue) that provides a closer match to the colours used in Orthographic maps) as opposed to the 'default' Texture Set (which is primarily set up to match Topographic maps)...

Jerker {}

 

[HiBaller]

I had a feeling I was on the right track using UTM tiles, but I couldn't figure out just what was being used as input. I still don't know what the input file is. I figure that once this file is input to TransDEM, then there would be some sort of UTM Tile output under the Trainz menu. My problem is that I can't make the connection.

Which tutorial has the instructions? The Help with Trainz Route Generation tutorial touches on it, but refers to another tutorial that I can't seem to find.

Bill

 

[geophil]

TransDEM always uses the raster maps / ortho images currently loaded and in the currently visible stack order, for both ground textures and UTM tiles. The route generation tutorial first loads a topo map 1:50,000 which is good for ground textures. Then it loads larger scale map clippings 1:5000 for UTM tiles. These are shown on top of the 1:50,000 map.

In that tutorial all map clippings are prefabricated. Most of the other tutorials, particularly those which explain how to acquire and/or pre-process the map clippings from the various types of sources, are in the TransDEM main manual. These are independent of the Trainz functionality.

 

[davidbird]

This might help. How I approach this is to load up in TransDem, a list of geo-referenced maps. I then create the terrain, with textures from that. I then load up a set of georef'd GE images, "on top of" the maps, then create the 3d UTM tiles, with the radiobutton "Slightly underground" unchecked. Hence I end up with a route which has terrain textures that look like a map when zoomed out, but the actual ground cover appears to be the hi-res GE image.

 

[belgian46]

Hello Bill,

On Roland's ( geophil ) Transdem website, did you have a look at the following thread http://forum.transdem.de/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=166 (Google Earth - UTM Error in Transdem )?

You always have to do some experimenting - but once you have found the exact settings for your route ( or area ), all becomes very clear.

One remark about the thread -Google Earth - UTM error in Transdem - ( I used it in TS2009,2010 and 2012 ) - I still have to try it in Tane

Best regards

Kurt :wave:

 

[HiBaller]

A wealth of information here, if I can just figure out what it all means.

@Geophil: I understood every word in the post, but having trouble with what all that means. This is MY problem, however. I'll figure it out eventually.

@DavidBird: Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought that GE georeferenced maps was what I started with originally. I tried creating the route, but when I got to the point of trying to create 3D UTM tiles, I could never get the "Go" button to illuminate. There was some sort of file I needed, but when I went looking for it, I never found it. Since I couldn't find the file to fill in the text box, the button never lit up.

@Belgian46: I read the thread you linked to, but the technical terminology threw me. I made a note of the tutorial page numbers and am going to try a detailed analysis of what they mean and how they relate to me.

Actually, I think I may have some of this figured out. There are two phases of route creation. What I've done is the first phase. Now I have to go back and open my newly-created route for editing and attempt to create the 3D UTM tiles using my GE images and aim the process at the route as it sits in the \Editing folder. At least I think this is what I need to do. The program is so new to me I have to get a feel for it first before trying anything more exotic than a simple route creation. I was able to do that in half an hour.

I;ll get this figured out eventually. Thanks all.

Bill

 

[geophil]

@Geophil: I understood every word in the post, but having trouble with what all that means. This is MY problem, however. I'll figure it out eventually.

I suggest to do the "Muengsten" tutorial (the route generation tutorial in the TransDEM Trainz manual) again, from A to Z. Even if you already went through it, you could accidentally have missed a step. That tutorial creates UTM tiles in part 2, imports them into Trainz in part 4 and checks the result in part 5.

This tutorial combines exporting of all three geo data types, DEM, raster (for both ground texturing and UTM tiles) and vector in a single session, thus avoiding an extra "open for edit" cycle.

 

[HiBaller]

I agree. I started there but tried to run before I could walk. I tend to do that. Unfortunately, I have a full schedule today, but I will be free Saturday to work on nothing but tutorials. Love the program as it is much more comprehensive than MicroDEM even allowing that MicroDEM was created years ago. It turned out that my son-in-law gave TransDEM to me for my birthday on the 5th after using his PayPal account to buy it.

Bill

 

[cressjl]

Thanks, geophil...

I must say that Tran{s|z}dem are among the most intimidating software tools I have ever used as a new user, and I speak as a U.S. Navy acoustic engineer fully familiar with converting lat/lon to (x, y) in nmi! I'm not sure, but I feel it is the combining of various mapping data from web sources into Trainz-related assets that seems so complex. The tutorials provide good insight into the overall process, though.

Every hint and tip you provide is greatly appreciated!

 

[RPearson]

I agree. I started there but tried to run before I could walk. I tend to do that. Unfortunately, I have a full schedule today, but I will be free Saturday to work on nothing but tutorials. Love the program as it is much more comprehensive than MicroDEM even allowing that MicroDEM was created years ago. It turned out that my son-in-law gave TransDEM to me for my birthday on the 5th after using his PayPal account to buy it.

Bill

Glad you've finally seen the light Bill, even if your son-in-law had to shine it on you. I was a long term hold out and not because I didn't see it usefulness by any means, but I bought a copy a couple years ago. The primary reason was it works with all versions of Trainz from TRS04 on up to and including TANE. Occasionally I do some work in TRS04 and 06. I still make my own trk files directly from cad files with the cad2trk utility I wrote - I prefer my output to the trk files TransDEM makes - no offense meant Roland.

Currently I'm remaking the whole EBT route using TD. As an old roll-your-owner using MD, HOG and Piglet, creating the new terrain from the DEM data is about as easy as it gets. I'm still using my old 10m dem data and the old track file from TS12 with some new additions to filter the baseboards and I've got a new .gnd file in literally minutes. The old cad files I made a decade or more ago are getting re-used to make the new trk files. I'm adding in the PRR main line thru Mt Union, PA. Current version of this PRR section is also in a cad file which is based on pushpin data I generated in GE then export as a kml file and then convert the lat/lon to utm dat and then convert utm to xyz meter cords with the origin at the Trainz world origin at the NW corner of the 1st base board in the gnd file TD creates for me. Python scripting is a great tool for doing all this work.

I'd recommend any of the scripting languages if you are so inclined. For me Python has great capabilities and a vast number of libraries (packages) for doing stuff like reading kml files and lat/lon to utm conversions. Astronomical packages for doing nautical astronomy, almanac and sight reduction work - another hobby I indulge in. For me the scientific and engineering packages are just phenomenal. On a side note going from Python to Trainz gamescript was not much more than reading the reference manual and then I was able to embrace the unending frustration of the Trainz API.

The amount of effort that Roland put into TransDEM is very impressive - what program for this price would give you the manuals and tutorials with this detail level. I can't recommend it enough.

Bob Pearson

 

[HiBaller]

Thanks for that input, Bob. I'm going to need it. Right at the moment, I am completely stymied by Tutorial 1, part 1, Step 2.

It says: "2. From the TransDEM example directory (TransDEM-Beispiel\muengsten) we open muengsten.dem as the DEM , muengsten_georef.trf as the raster map, and muengsten.str as a vector route ."

I can open the DEM file, but I cannot open anything else. If I try, I am told that the DEM file will be closed so I can open another file. The specified directory has the files mentioned, but there is no way I can find to open the other two. I can double-click the TRF file and it is opened in TD, but when I try and open the DEM file over it, the original TRF presentation shrinks to a tiny dot and gets covered by the DEM file colors. There doesn't seem to be any way to get this STR file loaded at the same time.

I worked with Naval charts and maps for 20 years as an adjunct to direction finding, but this defeats me.

Help!

Bill

 

[geophil]

I can open the DEM file, but I cannot open anything else. If I try, I am told that the DEM file will be closed so I can open another file. The specified directory has the files mentioned, but there is no way I can find to open the other two. I can double-click the TRF file and it is opened in TD, but when I try and open the DEM file over it, the original TRF presentation shrinks to a tiny dot and gets covered by the DEM file colors. There doesn't seem to be any way to get this STR file loaded at the same time.

We have three different kinds of geo data in TransDEM: DEM, raster maps and vector maps. For each of them we have a separate menu and a separate toolbar (and these actually represent three different subs-systems within the TransDEM software). So, Open DEM only opens a DEM and nothing else. Open Raster Map only opens a bitmap. And furthermore for raster, we distinguish between raw and geo-referenced. Double-clicking on a .trf is a short-cut for opening a georef bitmap. If you have a close look at the Muengsten tutorial instructions, they also show the icons for each individual open command.

When you open a raster map and a DEM and one of the two jumps to a far corner and shrinks, it's an indicator that they don't really match and may point to different locations. It can also mean that one of the two ended up in a different UTM zone, perhaps accidentally. (The UTM projection is a zonal one, 6° longitude for each zone.) This shouldn't happen with the Muengsten tutorial, though.

As you already told yourself, don't rush it. Do it step by step.

 

[davidbird]

This might help. How I approach this is to load up in TransDem, a list of geo-referenced maps. I then create the terrain, with textures from that. I then load up a set of georef'd GE images, "on top of" the maps, then create the 3d UTM tiles, with the radiobutton "Slightly underground" unchecked. Hence I end up with a route which has terrain textures that look like a map when zoomed out, but the actual ground cover appears to be the hi-res GE image.

...
@DavidBird: Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought that GE georeferenced maps was what I started with originally. I tried creating the route, but when I got to the point of trying to create 3D UTM tiles, I could never get the "Go" button to illuminate. There was some sort of file I needed, but when I went looking for it, I never found it. Since I couldn't find the file to fill in the text box, the button never lit up.
...

I've got my 2d & 3d tiles slightly mixed up. When creating UTM tiles, you need an area masked off. When selecting the 3D radio button, it automatically gives the option of 10cm above ground level. To get the "Go" button to light up, you need a route open for editing.

Have you got the export settings set up correctly? Click on Options (in top toolbar) -> Settings -> Trainz global export parameters. In that box, you need to set the location for the Trainz Mesh XML Importer (3D UTM Tiles) - as well as where you want the destination to be, I think this is easiest if this is the Trainz editing folder.

If you haven't got the mesh importer, download it from here http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php5/Downloads, it's the Media:TrainzImporterTS12.zip file you need. Save this somewhere memorable, extract it, remember where you saved it and go back and set this as the Trainz Mesh XML Importer location in TransDEM.

 

[HiBaller]

Is there a sequence I need to follow for opening those three files? If I open the DEM file first, I cannot load anything else. I am told that the file will be closed before loading any other files. I used the little toolbar buttons to do the loading, so I managed to locate each one of them. I'll figure it out but first a cup of tea.

@DavidBird: I downloaded and set up the mesh importer so that's a solved problem. I got the clue I needed it when the error popped up that TD couldn't find the EXE file.

Bill

 

[SharkNose]

Just for the curious, Bill, what version of TransDEM are you using?

Andrew

 

[geophil]

Is there a sequence I need to follow for opening those three files? If I open the DEM file first, I cannot load anything else. I am told that the file will be closed before loading any other files. I used the little toolbar buttons to do the loading, so I managed to locate each one of them. I'll figure it out but first a cup of tea.

Enjoy your tea.

You can open DEM or raster map in any order. But vector has to be last since it cannot exist on its own. It needs a DEM or a georef raster map as its basis.

For DEM, you can load only one. All other DEM operations (and there are quite a few) will be carried out on that DEM. For raster maps you can load many, hundreds actually, as long as they are already geo-referenced. For convenience you can save all the currently opened maps into a group. If it's a raw bitmap, then only one can be open and you are expected to apply georeferencing to it, again, with many options.

The sheer number of functions available could indeed scare you. For the moment, it's easier to use only those explicitly named in the tutorial.