shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
That's one thing I will always agree with. It reminds me of the saying of looking before you leap.
Shane
A humble request for the staff to rethink how they handled the situation
- Thread starter jadebullet
- Start date
That's one thing I will always agree with. It reminds me of the saying of looking before you leap.
Shane
Perfectly understood, but see, TANE lies at the heart of this problem. Why does TANE lie at the heart of this problem? Well it does on several levels, let me elaborate:
1: TANE was sold to us as it was going to be incredible with the new game engine, and that you could do things with it that could never once be done in a previous version of trainz. True, there are somethings that are not in a previous trainz product:
15K draws are stunning and I love that capability. Shadows are far superior to the ones in TS12, or any others.
Negative: There are no trees, which other trainz products have always had. The speedtrees used in TANE are recycles of previous crappy ones built into TS2010 and 12.
2: TANE works for few, but not for the masses. It is okay that it works for somebody, but we wish to at least have an attempt at helping us get ours working right. We do not wish to be criticized by fanboys (I don't know why, there's not much to fanboy about TANE other than you spent money that you could've done something more productive with like bought something from RRmods or JR and spent hours playing a game that works correctly.) that say we are the problem, or we don't have the PC to run TANE. Well I have a PC to run TANE, and it is flat out trash, what do you think of that eh?
3: All we want is a simple answer as to why TANE sucks. They still have yet to give an explanation, so maybe if we call them out personally, they'll talk a little bit faster.
4: TANE is the laughing stock of the Train Sim community. We as a community are the laughing stock, and we've been made this way now because of how Tony dealt with criticism. Well at least if you're going to make trash, stand by it. Tony doesn't even stand by the trash that is TANE, that's when you know it is truly bad.
5: We paid for our right to criticize, but Tony fails to realize this, and instead pulls even more trash on us. That's okay, because we don't have to buy another one of your products again.
6: We wanted a game that worked and was as amazing as TS12, but were instead delivered junk even after the delayed the release. I'm sure people would've been much happier with an explanation as to why you're pushing it out another year than to say "Okay boys, you wanted it, now you get it" and have something that is useless to us all.
7: Were the forums going downhill? Perhaps. Are the forums going downhill even faster now? Simple Yes. Does how they do moderation need reconsidered? Heck yea, apparently the ones we have now can't do anything, so we needed to make it easier for them to do something. Last time I checked moderating a forum was you can post and have fun, plus you watch and make sure stupidity is not occurring and fecal matter is hitting the rotational wind deflector. Last time I checked, the rules were stated pretty simple in black and white. I understood the other rules, so what did changing them really do? Nothing. Last time I checked, banning somebody for doing wrong was a simple click of a button. I guess for our moderators, they needed to be like officals for the NFL and constantly check their work through reviews every play so that they can make sure an actual rule was broken or a score was a score. I guess our moderators have to have a meeting with Tony and look at the rules, and decide if a rule was actually broken and then decide a penalty. This could take weeks even months the way Tony get's back with customers, so who knows how long it actually takes. Looks to me like moderation before was a joke, and still even with more stiff rules is a joke.
Enzo1 (Chris),
Well I am glad that you have got all that "out of your system".
I found your post far from helpful and it came across as "the rantings" of a person with "issues" that go beyond TANE - my impression only. So TANE did not live up to your expectations, we get that. But, as jadebullet replied to one of your earlier posts, it did match his (and my) expectations, given the far too short development time and the "rushed" release - issues covered endlessly in other forums and threads. Your entire "rant" covers issues that have already been dealt with, repeatedly, and should be moved to a more appropriate forum.
My opinion only.
Well I am glad that you have got all that "out of your system".
I found your post far from helpful and it came across as "the rantings" of a person with "issues" that go beyond TANE - my impression only. So TANE did not live up to your expectations, we get that. But, as jadebullet replied to one of your earlier posts, it did match his (and my) expectations, given the far too short development time and the "rushed" release - issues covered endlessly in other forums and threads. Your entire "rant" covers issues that have already been dealt with, repeatedly, and should be moved to a more appropriate forum.
My opinion only.
steamfan88
Banned
In my opinion, it doesnt matter how many times these issues get "covered" on the forum. Does it ever truelly mean they get "covered" by tony to be fixed. No, while some have been, not all the problems will be addressed and thats because tony doesnt care.
The game should never have been released at a half-assed complete state. Its no wonder trainz is the comedy club of train simulators. We are nothing more than a virtual model railroad community.
Were not a true simulator, were a shabby little game because tony doesnt feel like putting time into his product like auran originally did.
Enzo's so called "rantings" and "issues" shouldnt be shunned. He paid for a game that N3V/Tony over hyped which turned out to be a dud. He is more than allowed to speak his mind in the matter.
Hate me if you like.
Last edited:
Few things:
Did you really look for them?
Happy to believe you when I see some actual numbers.
I am actually surprised you still are allowed to post after those images you posted earlier.
In my version there are tree's.
Did you really look for them?
Love to see some facts supporting that. And I mean actual facts, not just pointing at a few people complaining on various forums; actual numbers please.
Happy to believe you when I see some actual numbers.
I paid for a simulator instead.
It is more amazing than TS12 in many aspect. I am waiting for the next patch to fix some things in the CM side and make it more stable, so not promoting the game till then.
Nah, that's a waste of time and energy. In stead, I am just ignoring you till you post under your other / main / real account.
I am actually surprised you still are allowed to post after those images you posted earlier.
Last edited:
Understood, but I don't think me nor you know what Jade's expectations of TANE were. Also, these issues have not been dealt with repeatedly. My TANE works in most places, pretty well, but there's nothing really exciting about it, and therefore, I still use TS12 as my base version. That's not the issue at hand here, there is a lack of content built to TANE standards, most of which creators aren't even going to try to meet, as they have no guide in place to guide them around. There are no trees, but I guess some people found the built-in trees to be good. I did too when I first moved into the speed tree era, until I found better trees and discovered that people can build trees that blow minds away. However, I get that the speed trees for 12 don't work in TANE, that's not the issue either. The issue is on N3V's hand not to work something out to get those trees working. I actually think TANE has potential to be stellar, with the addition of two important things: Content and Trees. Do that and make it more stable, and I think we got a mighty fine game that competes with the likes of Railworks quite well. But at the current moment, nope, it's not even close. This is not our fault, this is N3V's fault that TANE is what TANE is. They won't even give us an explanation as to why it is not what it could be, and this angers us more than anything else. All we want is at least a simple public acknowledgement that no, TANE did not live up to previous standards, and much work is being done right now to ensure that one day in the future, whether it be next month or next year, that TANE will be what TANE can be. That's it, that's all we ask.... How hard is that? Instead we get a public beatdown and made the laughing stock.
jadebullet
might be back?
Not to continue the derail, but I figure that I would just state my expectations. 
I expected that we would get another trainz game, with a few minor improvements, but nothing ground breaking. I also expected that there would be some issues, as there always is with a trainz release, and that some of them would be fixed before the next trainz game came out. That's pretty much what we got. The tree issue was an issue back in Trainz 2010 with the multiplayer patch, and it has been somewhat alleviated with some alpha trees that actually work, such as the grazzy stuff from JR. Built in stuff wise, whatever. I tend to ignore most N3V created built in content anyway. The game is based more around the 3rd party stuff anyway.
In any case, I feel we are getting a bit off topic here in regard to talking about the shortcomings of TANE, though the division in the community between people who love it and people that hate it is one of the problems in the community at the moment. I just think talking about the game itself is a bit off topic.
I expected that we would get another trainz game, with a few minor improvements, but nothing ground breaking. I also expected that there would be some issues, as there always is with a trainz release, and that some of them would be fixed before the next trainz game came out. That's pretty much what we got. The tree issue was an issue back in Trainz 2010 with the multiplayer patch, and it has been somewhat alleviated with some alpha trees that actually work, such as the grazzy stuff from JR. Built in stuff wise, whatever. I tend to ignore most N3V created built in content anyway. The game is based more around the 3rd party stuff anyway.
In any case, I feel we are getting a bit off topic here in regard to talking about the shortcomings of TANE, though the division in the community between people who love it and people that hate it is one of the problems in the community at the moment. I just think talking about the game itself is a bit off topic.
I do apologize for this, as my simple point was that I think TANE lies at the heart of the current problem. Nothing more than my opinion and I agree 100% with asking of them to reconsider what they've done. In those, I just happened to have pointed out things that have led up to where we are today. I never meant to derail, just elaborate on what my point was.Not to continue the derail, but I figure that I would just state my expectations.
I expected that we would get another trainz game, with a few minor improvements, but nothing ground breaking. I also expected that there would be some issues, as there always is with a trainz release, and that some of them would be fixed before the next trainz game came out. That's pretty much what we got. The tree issue was an issue back in Trainz 2010 with the multiplayer patch, and it has been somewhat alleviated with some alpha trees that actually work, such as the grazzy stuff from JR. Built in stuff wise, whatever. I tend to ignore most N3V created built in content anyway. The game is based more around the 3rd party stuff anyway.
In any case, I feel we are getting a bit off topic here in regard to talking about the shortcomings of TANE, though the division in the community between people who love it and people that hate it is one of the problems in the community at the moment. I just think talking about the game itself is a bit off topic.
ZecMurphy
Community Assistant
Good Morning All
Hopefully this might bring some clarity in relation to the new COC changes.
These are, in all honesty, things I would expect would be common sense. Namely, you cannot make personal attacks against other users (including making personal criticism of other users). This does not stop you from commenting or criticising a product, however any post should be constructive (even a polite post may not be constructive, and that tends to lead to anger/fighting). The Trainz forums do welcome constructive discussion, and debate, on Trainz products (and 3rd party products if they fit the topic/forum area). The COC does make these parts somewhat more strict, as it seems that some users may not have a grasp of this.
In regards to the last weekend, unfortunately we did experience a lack of moderators. The helpdesk has been exceedingly busy for me lately, and then I was away from any real computer access on Saturday, whilst others from the team (mods and staff) were either working or unavailable. We are currently in the process of finding new moderators, and hopefully this will help curtail situations such as this in future.
As to the comment that moderation is easy. This is far, far, far from the truth. Yes, a ban can be applied at a click of a button (well, a few clicks of the mouse and the need to enter messages into a few boxes, and only for specific types of infractions), but we don't want to have to apply bans. Same goes for infractions, and it's an infraction system that is used on these forums (100 points or more results in a ban of varying length, depending on the actual total amount).
I've seen a lot of anger when user A gets a ban and user B doesn't. Both received 50 point infractions for identical posts. However user A already had a 50 point infraction, and hence their total was 100 points and that resulted in a ban, whilst user B may have had 0-49 infraction points.
Most of us have received personal threats from members of these forums (via means outside these forums), either to our jobs or even physical harm. Things like people trying to find our addresses, and other personal details, are examples of this. It's definitely not fun and games when this starts happening...
Regards
Hopefully this might bring some clarity in relation to the new COC changes.
These are, in all honesty, things I would expect would be common sense. Namely, you cannot make personal attacks against other users (including making personal criticism of other users). This does not stop you from commenting or criticising a product, however any post should be constructive (even a polite post may not be constructive, and that tends to lead to anger/fighting). The Trainz forums do welcome constructive discussion, and debate, on Trainz products (and 3rd party products if they fit the topic/forum area). The COC does make these parts somewhat more strict, as it seems that some users may not have a grasp of this.
In regards to the last weekend, unfortunately we did experience a lack of moderators. The helpdesk has been exceedingly busy for me lately, and then I was away from any real computer access on Saturday, whilst others from the team (mods and staff) were either working or unavailable. We are currently in the process of finding new moderators, and hopefully this will help curtail situations such as this in future.
As to the comment that moderation is easy. This is far, far, far from the truth. Yes, a ban can be applied at a click of a button (well, a few clicks of the mouse and the need to enter messages into a few boxes, and only for specific types of infractions), but we don't want to have to apply bans. Same goes for infractions, and it's an infraction system that is used on these forums (100 points or more results in a ban of varying length, depending on the actual total amount).
I've seen a lot of anger when user A gets a ban and user B doesn't. Both received 50 point infractions for identical posts. However user A already had a 50 point infraction, and hence their total was 100 points and that resulted in a ban, whilst user B may have had 0-49 infraction points.
Most of us have received personal threats from members of these forums (via means outside these forums), either to our jobs or even physical harm. Things like people trying to find our addresses, and other personal details, are examples of this. It's definitely not fun and games when this starts happening...
Regards
Glad to see you back Zec. Honestly hope to see more of you around. I understand you're busy, and that things aren't always peachy keen being a mod, but I hope it all doesn't get you down.
The lack of Mods has been noted by a few people in a few places, and seeing Mods come off the endangered species list is something I think we sorely need....
-Falcus
The lack of Mods has been noted by a few people in a few places, and seeing Mods come off the endangered species list is something I think we sorely need....
-Falcus
You'll go far with that attitude. :wave:
brendansbiz
choo choo twain!
Im real glad to see how you adults have handled this, beings that their are in fact "kids" involved on these forums as well apart from all of the politics. C'mon set an example cut the lip and be a role model. Sass, Attitude is not needed and definitely is not wanted here. We are human we will never be perfect or get along, but we need to act as a community as intended for. And I can't believe that most of you "adults" have set to believe that your "Criticism" isn't hurtful or dampening, but actually rude and discouraging. I have seen it time and time again and all that n3v has asked us to do is be the community that we have been called as. None of this would've happened if we were a.. Yeah you guessed it... Community
I thought it was explained many times already that there was an issue with the SpeedTree version not being compatible and with licensing issues as well.
Many people have been helping others with their hardware issues. Perhaps those solutions didn't work for you but to say no help was forthcoming?
says you but since you mention that it does "work for few," perhaps analyzing the difference between their PC and yours would reveal why it doesn't work for you.
I think it doesn't help your cause.
interesting attitude,
Although not perfect, T:ANE seems to work reasonably well on my and other people's computers. Sure there are occasional glitches and there are somethings I wish were done better but I prefer to work with the devs and find solutions rather than trash talking T:ANE and insulting them personally.
Likewise, personally threatened and all because of a game!? Yikes, that'll take the joy out of any hobby.
jadebullet
might be back?
Well put Zec. And as I said before, I don't think that the current moderators are doing a bad job, far from it in fact. It is more of a systemic problem. I do think that more transparency might end up being helpful to you guys in regard to the whole "why did he get banned, and the other guy didn't thing," but that is just me. I can see where people might think it is unfair because none of the punishments are actually seen by anyone but the person being punished. If both parties see that they both got punished, it might be easier to handle. Personally, I have felt that it also enforces the CoC better when people get a reminder of the rules when someone breaks one thanks to the moderators dreaded red text. It also serves as a sort or wakeup call to the poster if they see that their post got hit by a red text warning, a bit better than just getting a PM and a post deletion. At least in my opinion.
But yes, being a mod definitely sucks. Like I said, I wouldn't make a good moderator. I wouldn't be able to put up with that stuff, and I am the type of person who would get satisfaction from banning people that annoyed me with mod harassing.
But yes, being a mod definitely sucks. Like I said, I wouldn't make a good moderator. I wouldn't be able to put up with that stuff, and I am the type of person who would get satisfaction from banning people that annoyed me with mod harassing.
Dinorius_Redundicus
kuid 68213
I've been away for the last few days and missed out on reading the post that started all this. Is it still there? I'd like to read it so I can better understand all the subsequent commentary.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
Thankyou for the clarification Zec. That makes things clearer for me.
In terms of the moderation side, I've seen moderation issues in my own forum a couple of times (although I use different forum software to what's used here) so I know what that's like. It's also interesting to have an insight into how the infraction process works.
In terms of personal threats, it's disgusting that any member here would go that low. Members that do that definitely shouldn't be members here. No-one should make another member feel threatened like that.
Shane
It's not so much a question of TANE doesn't work, it just doesn't work very well. I'm not expecting it to work on my laptop, even after any performance patch which eventually emerges, but it doesn't exactly fly on my desktop either.
As an example, yesterday evening I had a cracking session in GTA V, 1920 x 1080 even got the settings cranked up a bit beyond those recommended by R*. Did the mission where you chase after a crashing plane on a trail bike. Realistic looking landscape, passing through towns and countryside, speeds in excess of 80 MPH so there must be a fair bit of loading and unloading going on in the background. Particle effects from the smoke trail on the plane etc. Complex calculations going on in the background to trigger dialogue etc. Not a single stutter. To chill out before going to bed, thought I would try a quick drive on Heallsville. Load up the route, judder my way across to the loco. FPS all over the place and virtually uncontrollable with juddering and jerking constantly. A shame as it actually looks like a nice route but never going to see it at this rate.
And before anyone points out that GTA V had a much bigger budget, as I noted in one of the arbitrarily deleted threads, a small budget hasn't prevented Euro Truck Sim, OMSI or World of Subways from achieving excellent results. All we want is a bit of assurance from N3V (not from community spokesmen, self-appointed or otherwise) that yes they recognise all is not what it should be and a timescale for this being addressed - even if that is six months away. At least some of the angst has come from seeing N3V tout for payware contributors and now input for a future version, so yes people are going to think, "Hang on, they haven't got this version sorted yet" and get a bit cross.
As an example, yesterday evening I had a cracking session in GTA V, 1920 x 1080 even got the settings cranked up a bit beyond those recommended by R*. Did the mission where you chase after a crashing plane on a trail bike. Realistic looking landscape, passing through towns and countryside, speeds in excess of 80 MPH so there must be a fair bit of loading and unloading going on in the background. Particle effects from the smoke trail on the plane etc. Complex calculations going on in the background to trigger dialogue etc. Not a single stutter. To chill out before going to bed, thought I would try a quick drive on Heallsville. Load up the route, judder my way across to the loco. FPS all over the place and virtually uncontrollable with juddering and jerking constantly. A shame as it actually looks like a nice route but never going to see it at this rate.
And before anyone points out that GTA V had a much bigger budget, as I noted in one of the arbitrarily deleted threads, a small budget hasn't prevented Euro Truck Sim, OMSI or World of Subways from achieving excellent results. All we want is a bit of assurance from N3V (not from community spokesmen, self-appointed or otherwise) that yes they recognise all is not what it should be and a timescale for this being addressed - even if that is six months away. At least some of the angst has come from seeing N3V tout for payware contributors and now input for a future version, so yes people are going to think, "Hang on, they haven't got this version sorted yet" and get a bit cross.