Freightliner reveals new Powerhaul™ livery...

I went on the website concerning the concept of conpressed air operating a steam engine chassis but that was not really sucessful and never repeated so it was quite possible that is a strange german who did that and that engine possibly had a 4-6-0 wheel arrangment but as for the new paint colors, it does not look bad but the locomotive could be improved though!:cool:
 
Well this is where we open a can of worms because each single Trainzer has his own idea of what looks good! :hehe:

However I'm a great fan of the old school locomotives. Like the Canadian National with the Beardmore engine. Why? Well noone had built diesels before so there was no standard way of doing it and some of the early attempts showed great variety and imagination. Check out the strange German diesel that powered a compressor that operated a standard steam engine layout but with compressed air instead of steam. The Germans also played around with diesel-hydraulic transmission. Diesel-electric has really only become established because that became the American standard but unfortunately American designs became very immitative. The last time an American built loco showed any originality was the FL9 of the New Haven.

When I look at modern locos I see a very strong emphasis on plastic form and garish colour which I find singularly unattractive. Give me an old GE boxcab or EMD high hood any time. What could be a more beautiful creation than the Milwaukee bi-polar, or the London Transport Bo-Bo for the underground? And rod drives for electrics; so cool! :D



Cheers

Nix

Or a GG1, those were definetly one in a class of it's own
 
:cool: So, what would your idea of a Diesel-electric freight or passenger locomotive look like?
Well, check out the class 52 Western, which I've restored as my avatar. A very powerful twin engined diesel hydraulic, good for express passenger, but could turn its hand to heavy goods trains.

What's interesting about it, I think, is that it isn't just concieved as a utilitarian machine, it's clearly been designed - it has beautiful lines and looks consciously modern, reflecting British Rail's optimistic post-Modernisation Plan ideal of creating a new, post-steam railway that was going to revolutionise public transport. This locomotive actually looks like the future. Its design encapsulates an ideal and reminds us of a time when railways in Britain had hope, self-confidence and self-belief.

What 'ideal' does the class 70 encapsulate I wonder? The destruction of Britain's engineering tradition? The end of a nationally owned, nationally accountable railway? The loss of a railway that anyone actually cares about? Hmmm......

Paul (corporate blue all over)
 
The GG1 was an American masterpiece; you can thank Raymond Loewy and sound engineering for that; just look at how long they were needed and lasted! :cool:

As for the (Great) Western hydraulics, they were one of (a very few of) my favourite Brit locos and formed an interesting side lineage of the German V200s mentioned in my second post. :p

I don't know enough to comment on the destruction of Brit engineering or railways but I have noticed a world-wide trend away from individual designs and instances of engineering brilliance to follow a 'global trend'. In my mind that's why everything looks the same these days. That and spin doctorism. :confused:

Now as for inadvertant thread hijacking... :hehe:



Cheers

Nix
 
I might be hijacking the thread, but I just couldn't resist

I went on the website concerning the concept of conpressed air operating a steam engine chassis but that was not really sucessful and never repeated so it was quite possible that is a strange german who did that and that engine possibly had a 4-6-0 wheel arrangment but as for the new paint colors, it does not look bad but the locomotive could be improved though!:cool:

The reason behind this locomotive - and those "funny" diesel-hydraulics was the interest of the German railways in finding alternative means of propulsion to the steam locomotives of the time. Diesel-fired locomotives and electrification were seen as the way of the future, which they inevitably became. One of the first major achievements in diesel locomotive engineering was a 1000 PS engine of the Royal Prussian State Railways that was placed in service in 1912.
Now the locomotive itself wasn't a bad concept, but its transmission was. Its means of propulsion transfer was purely mechanical (imagine double clutching the thing), which presented numerous maintenance and operational problems, enough that a new solution was soon sought after. This resulted in V 3201, the aforementioned diesel-pneumatic locomotive. It was effectively a large diesel engine - the exact type that was later used in U-boats no less - connected to a single stage compressor that powered the air drive system - at a pressure of 7 bar - which was really no different than that of a steam locomotive. It didn't work very well. The heat generated by the compressed air made the compressor quite prone to overheating. It wasn't in service for very long, mostly because it just didn't work. Five years after it was delivered to the DRG in 1927, it was taken out of service.

The trouble with diesel locomotives at the time was that there existed no particularly efficient means to transfer the engine's power - not especially in the case of something with several hundred or even a thousand horsepower - to the drive axles that was reasonably reliable. This was much easier to do with electrics and steam locomotives for very obvious reasons, alas the diesel locomotive remained an engineering curiousity and a bit of a problem for the German railways until 1935 when an experimental locomotive with a hydraulic transmission - V 140 001 - was built, meant as a prototype for a whole new series of modern, diesel-hydraulic locomotives for branchline service. This locomotive was built with the following performance requirements in mind:
  • The ability to pull a 500 ton train up a grade of 1 in 100 at 30km/h
  • A top speed of 100km/h
  • The ability to work as a grade engine remotely controlled by the lead engine
It soon proved itself to be just as good as its steam-powered compatriots, and immensly reliable, far more so than any of its experimental predecessors. Unfortunately the planned series production never saw the light of day. A war came along and the industrial strength that would've been required to make these locomotives instead went to making weaponry for the German military. V 140 001 was taken out of service in 1939, not because of a serious breakdown or anything, but because of fuel shortages that prevented it from being used regularly.
After the war it was used in the Frankfurt am Main area until it was taken out of service in 1954; again not due to any serious problems with the locomotive itself, but because with it being a lone prototype there weren't any spare parts lying around to keep it running. By this time the DB had taken delivery of its ten V 80s (a new generation of diesel-hydraulics upon whose technology most subsequent diesel locomotives in West Germany were based) which were in service in and around Frankfurt as well, so a replacement already existed.

The German Federal Railways of West Germany stuck with diesel-hydraulics for its unelectrified lines from that point onward, resulting in the V 60s and V 90s as shunters, V 100s and V 160s as branchline and mainline locomotives leaving V 200s primarily for mainline service. In East Germany diesel-hydraulics weren't as widespread as they were on the other side of the border. A large number of mainline locomotives were diesel-electrics that had been imported from the Soviet Union. Still, they managed to build their own after a while. V 60s were relegated to shunting duties like their West German cousins, with V 100s and V 180s taking over the rest. One thing I must note is that East German V 100s and V 180s use hydrodynamic transmissions, but for the purpose of keeping this fairly simple, let me just say that they're close enough.
Steam locomotives nevertheless remained the daily staple of locomotion in both Germanys for a long time despite their younger, more modern brethren running on the same rails as they did. West Germany's Federal Railways dropped the fire for the last time in 1977, while East Germany more or less held on to steam till shortly after the two Germanys became one in 1990.

All of these classes are still in service to some degree, despite the fact that some of them are now almost (if not already) half a century old. This is a testament to their reliability and robust build quality that has managed to soldier on into the 21st century with DB AG and numerous private companies. V 90s present the largest number of engines that are still in service out of the number originally built, with all but a few of the 408 built still running around. Since the 1970s there have been few new diesel-hydraulics built, mostly because the sheer number of those already existing didn't really require it. There are some though which are being bought by private companies, and as of 2010 the DB will start taking deliver of some new shunters from Voith to gradually replace its V 90s. One noteworthy modern diesel-hydraulic of German production is Voith's Maxima 40 CC. With 3600 kW it is the most powerful diesel locomotive in Europe. It can put out up to 519 kN of tractive effort and can continually put out 408 kN. With a top speed of 160km/h (or 120km/h, depending on the customer's wishes) it can also keep up with modern German electrics and is in fact faster than all of the diesel-hydraulics that were built in East and West Germany in the postwar years. It is for the moment the epitome of diesel-hydraulic locomotion, only time will tell if it lives up to the expectations of its builder and its purchasers (77 are on order as of writing).


My three cents (inflation adjusted).

WileeCoyote:D
 
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:cool:
New pictures of the GE/Freightliner Class 70 have been released...
150909_03.jpg


Here's the dope...
GE’s new global diesel-electric PowerHaul™ Locomotive Series.
240908_04.jpg


Here's the New atRailExpress

Bluuuuuurgh I think I just sicked my breakfast back up. I never want to see one in real life. The make the 66s look beautiful!
 
:cool: So, what would your idea of a Diesel-electric freight or passenger locomotive look like?

Well, I really like the bodywork of the Class 40. Its like the Class 37's big brother. Or maybe the Class 55. Those bodys with two big twin turbo Scania V8 engines.:udrool: :mop: That should do the trick, or Volvo's 770 V8. Either one with Euro 3 emissions upgrades, to keep the tree huggers happy.:hehe: Maybe even three engines! Maybe four! Just do the maths
Scania 620 V8
+twin Garrett turbos
= around 700 hp.
x three
= around 2100hp
x four
= around 2800hp
Volvo 770 V8
+twin Garrett turbos
=around 840 hp
x three
=around 2520hp
x four
= around 3360

Maybe if we tinker with each engine a bit...:cool:
+Bore & Stroke cylinders
+Forged Pistons
+Billet Crank
+Boost the turbos a bit
+Titanium Valve Springs
= a fair bit!

Maybe chuck those engines and bung in some new ones
Cummins
Detroit Diesel
Caterpillar (could be good, they use them for bulldozers)
Mercedes-Benz

So, yeah, thats what I thing should be being built in Britain today, bring back the old Diesel-Electrics.
 
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Bluuuuuurgh I think I just sicked my breakfast back up. I never want to see one in real life. The make the 66s look beautiful!

I totally agree with you, that is definitly the ugliest engine I've ever seen, I even think the new livery throws it all out, to make it more uglyier than what it is. The class 66 looks great and sounds fantastic as it passes by, but this thing, only swear words can describe it...

Joe Airtime
 
I don't understand why people designing liveries nowadays haves curves in the paint job. It doesn't enhance the look at all. Putting curved colours over squared steel doesn't work (in my opinion). Paint should match and emphasize the lines of a loco.
Daniel
 
I don't understand why people designing liveries
Daniel

It isn't about designing liveries , it's about building Corporate Identity . Those developing Corporate Identity care little for the wims and opinions of a handfull of foamers ... :D You'll need to sit in on a presentation sometime to understand the mentality surrounding these ideas , great if you need lulz .


Even more interesting is that I've yet to see any true attempt to make them even mildly aerodynamic.

WileeCoyote:eek:

Sure there has been , but the world is apparently ( and 20 years after these designs were penned ) still not ready for the visions of the Master ... Professor Luigi Colani :cool:

http://www.colani.org/luigi_colani_Product_design_museum/Trains.html

Its a sad and boring world :'(
 
The reason behind this locomotive - and those "funny" diesel-hydraulics was the interest of the German railways in finding alternative means of propulsion to the steam locomotives of the time. Diesel-fired locomotives and electrification were seen as the way of the future, which they inevitably became. One of the first major achievements in diesel locomotive engineering was a 1000 PS engine of the Royal Prussian State Railways that was placed in service in 1912.
Now the locomotive itself wasn't a bad concept, but its transmission was. Its means of propulsion transfer was purely mechanical (imagine double clutching the thing), which presented numerous maintenance and operational problems, enough that a new solution was soon sought after. This resulted in V 3201, the aforementioned diesel-pneumatic locomotive. It was effectively a large diesel engine - the exact type that was later used in U-boats no less - connected to a single stage compressor that powered the air drive system - at a pressure of 7 bar - which was really no different than that of a steam locomotive. It didn't work very well. The heat generated by the compressed air made the compressor quite prone to overheating. It wasn't in service for very long, mostly because it just didn't work. Five years after it was delivered to the DRG in 1927, it was taken out of service.

The trouble with diesel locomotives at the time was that there existed no particularly efficient means to transfer the engine's power - not especially in the case of something with several hundred or even a thousand horsepower - to the drive axles that was reasonably reliable. This was much easier to do with electrics and steam locomotives for very obvious reasons, alas the diesel locomotive remained an engineering curiousity and a bit of a problem for the German railways until 1935 when an experimental locomotive with a hydraulic transmission - V 140 001 - was built, meant as a prototype for a whole new series of modern, diesel-hydraulic locomotives for branchline service. This locomotive was built with the following performance requirements in mind:
  • The ability to pull a 500 ton train up a grade of 1 in 100 at 30km/h
  • A top speed of 100km/h
  • The ability to work as a grade engine remotely controlled by the lead engine
It soon proved itself to be just as good as its steam-powered compatriots, and immensly reliable, far more so than any of its experimental predecessors. Unfortunately the planned series production never saw the light of day. A war came along and the industrial strength that would've been required to make these locomotives instead went to making weaponry for the German military. V 140 001 was taken out of service in 1939, not because of a serious breakdown or anything, but because of fuel shortages that prevented it from being used regularly.
After the war it was used in the Frankfurt am Main area until it was taken out of service in 1954; again not due to any serious problems with the locomotive itself, but because with it being a lone prototype there weren't any spare parts lying around to keep it running. By this time the DB had taken delivery of its ten V 80s (a new generation of diesel-hydraulics upon whose technology most subsequent diesel locomotives in West Germany were based) which were in service in and around Frankfurt as well, so a replacement already existed.

The German Federal Railways of West Germany stuck with diesel-hydraulics for its unelectrified lines from that point onward, resulting in the V 60s and V 90s as shunters, V 100s and V 160s as branchline and mainline locomotives leaving V 200s primarily for mainline service. In East Germany diesel-hydraulics weren't as widespread as they were on the other side of the border. A large number of mainline locomotives were diesel-electrics that had been imported from the Soviet Union. Still, they managed to build their own after a while. V 60s were relegated to shunting duties like their West German cousins, with V 100s and V 180s taking over the rest. One thing I must note is that East German V 100s and V 180s use hydrodynamic transmissions, but for the purpose of keeping this fairly simple, let me just say that they're close enough.
Steam locomotives nevertheless remained the daily staple of locomotion in both Germanys for a long time despite their younger, more modern brethren running on the same rails as they did. West Germany's Federal Railways dropped the fire for the last time in 1977, while East Germany more or less held on to steam till shortly after the two Germanys became one in 1990.

All of these classes are still in service to some degree, despite the fact that some of them are now almost (if not already) half a century old. This is a testament to their reliability and robust build quality that has managed to soldier on into the 21st century with DB AG and numerous private companies. V 90s present the largest number of engines that are still in service out of the number originally built, with all but a few of the 408 built still running around. Since the 1970s there have been few new diesel-hydraulics built, mostly because the sheer number of those already existing didn't really require it. There are some though which are being bought by private companies, and as of 2010 the DB will start taking deliver of some new shunters from Voith to gradually replace its V 90s. One noteworthy modern diesel-hydraulic of German production is Voith's Maxima 40 CC. With 3600 kW it is the most powerful diesel locomotive in Europe. It can put out up to 519 kN of tractive effort and can continually put out 408 kN. With a top speed of 160km/h (or 120km/h, depending on the customer's wishes) it can also keep up with modern German electrics and is in fact faster than all of the diesel-hydraulics that were built in East and West Germany in the postwar years. It is for the moment the epitome of diesel-hydraulic locomotion, only time will tell if it lives up to the expectations of its builder and its purchasers (77 are on order as of writing).


My three cents (inflation adjusted).

WileeCoyote:D

Thanks for that,although I still don't understand why they would go through all of that trouble to improve locomotive performance!:cool:
 
Sure there has been , but the world is apparently ( and 20 years after these designs were penned ) still not ready for the visions of the Master ... Professor Luigi Colani :cool:

http://www.colani.org/luigi_colani_Product_design_museum/Trains.html

Its a sad and boring world :'(

Some of those designs look an a lot like Some of the Shinkansens. I'd say the Japanese are ready; just not the rest of the world.

On a completely separate note. I find it interesting that the only thing available in his shop is mini-figures of himself.

peter
 
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well, I don't know why go through all of that for a locomotive for that matter, as for the paint however, it does not look bad just the locomotive!:cool:
 
Freightliner can't even make a truck that will stay together, much less a locomotive engine!
Haha!:hehe: I totally agree with you, and they give the truck all the features, like the steps that come out when you open the door on the Argosy (or however its spelt). But who needs that anyway?! Okay, I think we're getting a little off topic here...
 
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Wow, a regular Raymond Loewy!


Or Chuck Jordan .. :D :cool:

These utilitarian designs leave me kinda cold , I realise the need to keep design, production and mantainence costs to a minium ( and that guys with suites are dull bunch at best ) but we need style and more than a dash of vision ..

We seem to be living back in the 1800's :confused:

.
 
I speak fluent Daimler Freightliner...

:cool: Those trucks are the bomb! I could convince any fleet manager on the advantages of lighter tare weight, cheaper initial price, ease of maintenance, higher resale value...above the Peterbilt, Kenworth or Mack!

But every driver needed to carry a Weatherman tool to tighten it up now & then...

And I'm talking the conventional cab(read long-nose) 120" Freightliner truck.

Unless Freightliner Group Ltd is connected with Daimler Benz, I don't know of a connection with the US-American truck...

Thanks for the clue about the Scania V8...now that's something I can Google! And Volvo actually produced a locomotive engine? Were these engines Diesel compression-ignition?

Mack Trucks produced several models of trucks up to the '60's that featured a Scania-Vabis 4-cylinder engine of about 200hp, a Diesel motor.

Volvo made an introduction into the US-American truck market in the mid-eighties after buying the White Motor Company, featuring a European Cab, their own six banger & a manual transmission that featured synchronizers that would not allow the old-timers to shift without a clutch...

Thanks for all the great info!
 
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The locomotive maybe a GE product, but unfortunately it doesn't even have an American design where it would have a nose on it.

Why don't we go back to something like the old F-units? At least these were aerodynamic in the front. Right now manufacturers use cad programs to quickly sketch out products that either look like cubes (Toyota Scion XB), or Nike running shoes.

Alstom isn't much better with their LRVs and subway cars. They are also but ugly and look like they're made out of plastic like a toy.


John
 
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