Can I create another drive ???

E

ex-railwayman

New member
Hello all,

I am not very computer savvy, so, wondered if anyone can offer me some advice please.....
I purchased my computer 12 months ago, it was already installed with 2 hard drives, a C and a D drive, both of which are 70 gigs. I have 2 versions of Trainz currently installed, one on each drive, however, I would like to install another Trainz version on my PC and wondered if I can create a third drive, and call it an S or Z drive, to accomodate it, and if so, how do I go about it please, and will it automatically give me enough gigs to be able to operate a simulator game on it ???

Thankz.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
 
Hi,
I think your best bet would be separate USB drive, ahich you can plug in to a USB port and it will be automatically recognised.
I think you may have a single hard drive partitioned in 2 bits to give you c: and d: drive, I don't know.
Better wait until someone who knows what they are talking about comes on.
I reckon a separate USB drive is the way to go.
take care
Don W
 
Many thanks Don, I omitted to say, that I was hoping to do this without spending any money......Not that I'm a tight devil, of course....:hehe:

Cheerz. ex.
 
It all depends on your motherboard and power supply . If your motherboard has either a second IDE port or more than 2 sata ports then you can add another Hard drive (internally) but it also depends if your power supply is capable of supporting the additional load that the drive would demand.

You also have to weigh in the higher temperatures that will be generated in your case (sufficient cooling) and also if there is additional room and support for the drive ?

An external USB drive may work but I think the read speed is slower than an internal one (I may be wrong) .
 
Sounds like you should take a look at Partition Magic or the freebie Cute Partition Manager. These allow you to modify the way a harddrive is organised and define multiple partitions on a single harddrive. These partitions then appear as separate drives/drive letters in Windows.

I have no allegiance with either of these programs and you need to be careful how you do things to avoid losing data but it is possible to split one of your drives into 2 or more.

Cheers
Dave
 
You can install Trainz, UTC, TRS2004, TRS2006, TC and TRS2009 all on the same drive letter.

John
 
ex-railwayman said:
Hello all,

I am not very computer savvy, so, wondered if anyone can offer me some advice please.....
I purchased my computer 12 months ago, it was already installed with 2 hard drives, a C and a D drive, both of which are 70 gigs. I have 2 versions of Trainz currently installed, one on each drive, however, I would like to install another Trainz version on my PC and wondered if I can create a third drive, and call it an S or Z drive, to accomodate it, and if so, how do I go about it please, and will it automatically give me enough gigs to be able to operate a simulator game on it ???

Thankz.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
Click to expand...
Performance wise, you will only see an increase in performance if you put another physical hard drive into your computer. What you probably have at the moment are two logical hard drives,which will incur no performance advantage at all.

Think of it this way: You have a cake :)udrool:). You cut the cake in half and place different coloured icing on each half of the cake. This is the same as a pair of logical drives. You then place sprinklies of many colours on the cake to represent the data you are storing. Now here comes the hard bit: You want to access a file. Think of it like this: you decide to remove the sprinklies and get a hoover to suck them off (Improable I know). However, you can only use one hoover as there is only one cake. You have to remove all the sprinklies of one colour, let's say red, first, as one colour of sprinklies represents one file. These are scattered all over the cake and thus you hae to move about a lot to get them. This simulates the read action of the hard drive head finding the data.

Now, to change this a bit, imagine you have two cakes :)udrool::udrool:), each cake whole with different coloured icing and sprinklies on. Now you can remove the sprinklies with two hoovers as there are two cakes. You can therefore remove the sprinklies from both cakes at once, doubling the rate at which you are removing them.

Imagine half of the origional cake contains the Operating System data, and the other half contains trainz. The one hoover has to pick up the sprinklies for both trainz and windows, so it has twice as much work to do, as it is searching for sprinklies of two different colours.

Now let's apply this to the pair of cakes. Each of the two hoovers can search for one colour of sprinklies on thier own cake, thus halving the workload.

In short, buy a second hard drive and put all your trainz files on there. Hard drives really are cheap these days. You may only need an 80GB drive, which would cost about £30. (cables not supplied - about £2.50)
 
john259 said:
You can install Trainz, UTC, TRS2004, TRS2006, TC and TRS2009 all on the same drive letter.

John
Click to expand...


Hi there all,
John is quite right.
I have been building my own PCs for about 8 years, but I am no expert. I have 2006 and 2009 both installed in C:/Program Files/Auran/TRS2008 and TS2009 (separate folders). you can install all versions of Trainz in the Auran folder on your C: drive. I have a folder named Trainz Assets in 'My Documents to store all downloaded assets, whether payware or freebies - also a backup of my Local folder which I delete and update regularly. I then have all the Trainz assets and my routes etc. backed up in case I have to re-install trainz for some reason.
I also, monthly, back up the 'My Documents' folder to a large USB external hard drive (500Gb) in case I have a major problem and want to reformat and re-install XP. It is great to have a clean install occasionally - get rid of all that clutter you don't need. Obviously you have to back up all your needed files to external media - CD, DVD, or Blue_Ray (25Gb single layer, 50Gb double) or, of course, USB hard drive, but they can fail???? It does take a longe time to copy or delete some of these very large files ( the Local for instace)
so you have to be patient.
I hope this may be of assistance.
Regards
Gerry
 
Last edited:
nexusdj said:
It all depends on your motherboard and power supply . If your motherboard has either a second IDE port or more than 2 sata ports then you can add another Hard drive (internally) but it also depends if your power supply is capable of supporting the additional load that the drive would demand.
You also have to weigh in the higher temperatures that will be generated in your case (sufficient cooling) and also if there is additional room and support for the drive ?
An external USB drive may work but I think the read speed is slower than an internal one (I may be wrong) .
Click to expand...

Hmmm, sorry nexusdj, but this sounds way too technical for me, I did say I wasn't very computer savvy.....:hehe:
For a real thicko like me, how do I go about checking my motherboard specs without taking the cover of my PC off, which I don't really want to do right now, and how would I check what my power supply is capable of supporting.
My current spec is 3 gig RAM, I would have thought that will that generate enough power, especially for the huge routes on the DLS, I am a bit bamboozled regarding the temperature aspect, my PC has never given me any problems in that department.
And sorry to eldavo as well, but I think partitioning my hard-drives is way over the top of my head Dave, and I'd hate to lose anything vitally important on my machine.
Many thanks to the other Gentlemen, I am well aware of having all Trainz stuff on my c:drive, however, of course everything else for the computer is on there as well, such as Windows stuff, Microsoft Office, Programme Files, Anti-virus, other Trainz installations like FRAPS, Irfanview, Trainz Tuner, etc. etc.
I also operate BVE which accounts for another 10 gigs approx, so that doesn't leave much room for just 1 Trainz version on my c:drive, let alone 3 others....:hehe:
Having read other threads I am aware that performance is the key, so the less clutter on any drive the better the performance of my Trainz versions, especially, if I split them up over various drives.
I have very little in "My Documents" area, as I have studiously uploaded all my Trainz stuff onto CD's as I have gone along, approx 80 x 700mb discs so far at the last count, with every locomotive and piece of rolling stock for the UK, America, Canada, Australia and virtually every country in Europe as well as approx. 25 complete routes with all dependencies from around the world. I started to do this when the DLS went a bit wobbly and I thought it best to keep everything I had downloaded for safe keeping.
Finally, thanks to Captain Collins, your analogy with the cake certainly grabbed my attention, but I didn't finish reading your response, as I became very hungry and had to retire to the kitchen.....:hehe:

Thanks again everyone, unsure what steps to take now, decisions, decisions......

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
 
Last edited:
ex-railwayman said:
For a real thicko like me, how do I go about checking my motherboard specs
Click to expand...
The computer's manual should say. If you can't find the physical manual, you can probably download an electronic version from the manufacturer's web site but be sure the model number matches exactly. Otherwise there are various freeware utilities available online which will report some of the information but maybe not all. Try Belarc Advisor .

My current spec is 3 gig RAM, I would have thought that will that generate enough power
Click to expand...
RAM (and processor, and bus speed) determine computing power. However, we're talking about physical electrical power measured in watts that the video board will require. The computer's power supply unit (PSU) will be specified as being capable of outputting a maximum wattage, that's the figure you need to check. This figure may be on the PSU's case but that'll be inside the computer. It might also be listed in the computer's manual, probably near the back.

I am a bit bamboozled regarding the temperature aspect
Click to expand...
It's easy to understand the principle but difficult to get any figures. The case and video board fans must blow enough cold air in and hot air out to prevent things overheating.

I think partitioning my hard-drives is way over the top of my head Dave, and I'd hate to lose anything vitally important on my machine.
Click to expand...
Partition Manager makes it as straightforward and foolproof as possible but it isn't a job for someone who doesn't feel confident. Got any computer expert friends nearby?

Have you checked how much free space you have on C:? Have you defragged it recently?

Apart from space considerations, having multiple programs on the same physical drive will only affect performance if they are running at the same time and making fairly intensive use of the hard disk at the same time.

Splitting simultaneously hard-disk active programs across separate partitions on the same physical drive may adversely affect performance as the disk's read-write head has to make greater movements. On the other hand, caching might be better. The only way to be sure is methodical scientific testing on the specific computer. Splitting the programs across separate physical drives makes good sense but I'm not sure if a external disk connected via USB will be fast enough for Trainz (comments from anyone who's done it would be very useful). Maybe an external drive connected via Ethernet or wireless network might be better than USB?

If there's any computer terminology you don't understand, try looking it up on Wikipedia, it's an excellent resource.

HTH, John
 
john259 said:
The computer's manual should say. If you can't find the physical manual, you can probably download an electronic version from the manufacturer's web site but be sure the model number matches exactly. Otherwise there are various freeware utilities available online which will report some of the information but maybe not all. Try Belarc Advisor .

I bought it off the internet and didn't have a full manual in the box, I'll have a surf and see what I can hopefully find on the net.

RAM (and processor, and bus speed) determine computing power. However, we're talking about physical electrical power measured in watts that the video board will require. The computer's power supply unit (PSU) will be specified as being capable of outputting a maximum wattage, that's the figure you need to check. This figure may be on the PSU's case but that'll be inside the computer. It might also be listed in the computer's manual, probably near the back.

Cannot find any relevant info as to what power the video board requires, I'll look into it. I don't have a manual of the PSU's requirements, so again, I'll have to do some research.

It's easy to understand the principle but difficult to get any figures. The case and video board fans must blow enough cold air in and hot air out to prevent things overheating.

I've always had the base station sat on a chair next to the dining table, with no restrictions at all with air flow in or out.

Partition Manager makes it as straightforward and foolproof as possible but it isn't a job for someone who doesn't feel confident. Got any computer expert friends nearby?

No, unfortunately, that's why I posted on here, you are all my computer experts......:hehe:

Have you checked how much free space you have on C:? Have you defragged it recently?

Yes, defrag, scan and all other computer housekeeping done regularly.

Apart from space considerations, having multiple programs on the same physical drive will only affect performance if they are running at the same time and making fairly intensive use of the hard disk at the same time.

Splitting simultaneously hard-disk active programs across separate partitions on the same physical drive may adversely affect performance as the disk's read-write head has to make greater movements. On the other hand, caching might be better. The only way to be sure is methodical scientific testing on the specific computer. Splitting the programs across separate physical drives makes good sense but I'm not sure if a external disk connected via USB will be fast enough for Trainz (comments from anyone who's done it would be very useful). Maybe an external drive connected via Ethernet or wireless network might be better than USB?

Sounds interesting, I'll have a surf on the net for some prices.

If there's any computer terminology you don't understand, try looking it up on Wikipedia, it's an excellent resource.

You're my Wikipedia, Gentlemen.......:p

HTH, John
Click to expand...

Thanks ever so much for your help John.

Cheerz. ex. :wave:
 
Last edited:
ex-railwayman said:
Hmmm, sorry nexusdj, but this sounds way too technical for me, I did say I wasn't very computer savvy.....:hehe:
For a real thicko like me, how do I go about checking my motherboard specs without taking the cover of my PC off, which I don't really want to do right now, and how would I check what my power supply is capable of supporting.
My current spec is 3 gig RAM, I would have thought that will that generate enough power, especially for the huge routes on the DLS, I am a bit bamboozled regarding the temperature aspect, my PC has never given me any problems in that department.
And sorry to eldavo as well, but I think partitioning my hard-drives is way over the top of my head Dave, and I'd hate to lose anything vitally important on my machine.
Many thanks to the other Gentlemen, I am well aware of having all Trainz stuff on my c:drive, however, of course everything else for the computer is on there as well, such as Windows stuff, Microsoft Office, Programme Files, Anti-virus, other Trainz installations like FRAPS, Irfanview, Trainz Tuner, etc. etc.
I also operate BVE which accounts for another 10 gigs approx, so that doesn't leave much room for just 1 Trainz version on my c:drive, let alone 3 others....:hehe:
Having read other threads I am aware that performance is the key, so the less clutter on any drive the better the performance of my Trainz versions, especially, if I split them up over various drives.
I have very little in "My Documents" area, as I have studiously uploaded all my Trainz stuff onto CD's as I have gone along, approx 80 x 700mb discs so far at the last count, with every locomotive and piece of rolling stock for the UK, America, Canada, Australia and virtually every country in Europe as well as approx. 25 complete routes with all dependencies from around the world. I started to do this when the DLS went a bit wobbly and I thought it best to keep everything I had downloaded for safe keeping.
Finally, thanks to Captain Collins, your analogy with the cake certainly grabbed my attention, but I didn't finish reading your response, as I became very hungry and had to retire to the kitchen.....:hehe:

Thanks again everyone, unsure what steps to take now, decisions, decisions......

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
Click to expand...


WOW, I am a bit surprised that your C: drive is so full? What size is it? Perhaps your best bet is to get a large external USB drive (my 500Gig Samsung, around £40, is as fast as the internal drive, I timed it.) - it's about £79 for a terabyte, (how do you spell Terabyte? Terrorbite???), You can use that to cream off much of the excess from 'My Doc' and address it as easily as your C: drive and saves all those CDs and their storage. BUT, always install and run applications from your Boot drive which should be C: My Local folder in TS2009 is 8.91GB - 179.259 files, 12.566 Folders. This took 1 hour 34 minutes. to backup to 'My Docs' and the similar to ext. USB drive D:. I installed the complete Local content from my TRS2006 to TS2009, it took around 8 hours over night to commit (no errors were reported) - and about 98% works fine.
all the best.
Gerry

PS has any one got an ATI CROSSFIRE setup yet, if so, does it help with VERY large routes that have automatic running using many portals, That's my forte. GWR South Wales 1940s. (I was there then, and rode these beautiful trains a lot). I like to just watch using flying cams, it brings tears to the eyes - hey ho, old age, 73!
 
Last edited:
Gerry_Williams said:
WOW, I am a bit surprised that your C: drive is so full? What size is it? Perhaps your best bet is to get a large external USB drive (my 500Gig Samsung, around £40, is as fast as the internal drive, I timed it.) - it's about £79 for a terabyte, (how do you spell Terabyte? Terrorbite????)
Click to expand...

Both my drives are 70 gigs Gerry, and I haven't had many problems with running whatever Trainz version I had installed on my c:drive despite all the rest of the PC stuff installed.
It sounds like an external USB drive is the best way forward then by all accounts (500 gig would be ample), I'll have a look at my local internet stockist and see if I can put something on my Xmas list, as long as it's less than £70 including any power cables and other accessories, I should be OK.

Thanks for your help everybody.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
 
DISK SPACE, (or lack of it?).

ex-railwayman said:
Both my drives are 70 gigs Gerry, and I haven't had many problems with running whatever Trainz version I had installed on my c:drive despite all the rest of the PC stuff installed.
It sounds like an external USB drive is the best way forward then by all accounts (500 gig would be ample), I'll have a look at my local internet stockist and see if I can put something on my Xmas list, as long as it's less than £70 including any power cables and other accessories, I should be OK.

Thanks for your help everybody.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
Click to expand...
Hi,
That explains all. I have a 250GB C: drive and the 500GB external. my C;drive has never been filled, or anywhere near it, and the D: drive has about 75% of space yet. I was a Graphic Designer (Freelance) and have all the software that that needs, (Corel Graphics Suite, Photoshop, 3D modeling S/ware etc.). also I have been involved with professional music production - MIDI and digital audio, and some video. a LOT of software and saved files there!!! MS word Pro, and lots more.
I have not used a CD or DVD other than for burning music and/or video. Not for backup unless it is absolutely vital.
When I update my computer in the new year I am going for an Intel Core 2 Duo E8400, 2gig ram (I use XPpro (32 bit)and you cannot use more memory than that.), ATI Crossfire using 2X Radeon HD4650 1024MB ram on each, and the Asus Rampage has excellent included audio. I will stick to 250GB sata drive. I hope all my existing S/ware will run OK including TS2009!!!!. I can get this machine built for me by PC SPECIALISTS see their website) for about £800 (just the computer, I have the rest.)
I hope you resolve your problems ok
all the best
Gerry
 
Last edited:
Gerry_Williams said:
Hi,
That explains all. I have a 250GB C: drive and the 500GB external. my C;drive has never been filled, or anywhere near it, and the D: drive has about 75% of space yet. I was a Graphic Designer (Freelance) and have all the software that that needs, (Corel Graphics Suite, Photoshop, 3D modeling S/ware etc.). also I have been involved with professional music production - MIDI and digital audio, and some video. a LOT of software and saved files there!!! MS word Pro, and lots more.
I have not used a CD or DVD other than for burning music and/or video. Not for backup unless it is absolutely vital.
When I update my computer in the new year I am going for an Intel Core 2 Duo E8400, 2gig ram (I use XPpro (32 bit)and you cannot use more memory than that.), ATI Crossfire using 2X Radeon HD4650 1024MB ram on each, and the Asus Rampage has excellent included audio. I will stick to 250GB sata drive. I hope all my existing S/ware will run OK including TS2009!!!!. I can get this machine built for me by PC SPECIALISTS see their website) for about £800 (just the computer, I have the rest.)
I hope you resolve your problems ok
all the best
Gerry
Click to expand...

XP 32-bit can use up to 3.5GB of RAM.
 
ex-railwayman said:
I'll have a look at my local internet stockist
Click to expand...
You might also want to check UK online retailers such as Dabs, EBuyer, Maplin and Play.com . I've found Freecom equipment generally reliable and good value but there are plenty of other makes to choose from. Make sure it has the interface you want, sometimes this isn't too obvious. A few days of research on the 'net will help you to select the best product at the best price.

John
 
john259 said:
You might also want to check UK online retailers such as Dabs, EBuyer, Maplin and Play.com . I've found Freecom equipment generally reliable and good value but there are plenty of other makes to choose from. Make sure it has the interface you want, sometimes this isn't too obvious. A few days of research on the 'net will help you to select the best product at the best price.

John
Click to expand...

I would NOT recommend maplin as they, in my opinion, are overpriced on most of their products compared to purely internet sellers. I would instead recommend http://www.misco.co.uk who I have used extensively in the past and they are very good.
 
Captain_Collins said:
XP 32-bit can use up to 3.5GB of RAM.
Click to expand...
Hi Captain,
I have just contacted: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk.
and they will now build with 4Gig as XP professional has service pack 3 now.
so you are right. Sorry all. 6 months ago this was not the case, they would only fit 2gig. Now that they have Corsair XMS2 800 they fit 1x 2 gig module into each block and with HT only 2gig is being addressed on each channel?
I will let you all know, when I have tested it how it works.
 
Thanks Gerry, John and Captain. I always use dabs and misco for my PC accessories, they're great value and deliver very quickly, except when items are not immediately stocked, but I don't have to wait to long. I have installed 3 gigs already even though I have the option for 8 on this machine, but that's overkill, so I won't bother going any further with RAM extensions just yet. I've had a good look on the net today and written out a shopping list of stuff to look at and compare prices with. Just hope my busking around the streets of Nottingham will pay for it all.......:hehe:

Cheerz. ex-railwayman. :wave:
 
Gerry_Williams said:
Hi Captain,
I have just contacted: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk.
and they will now build with 4Gig as XP professional has service pack 3 now.
so you are right. Sorry all. 6 months ago this was not the case, they would only fit 2gig. Now that they have Corsair XMS2 800 they fit 1x 2 gig module into each block and with HT only 2gig is being addressed on each channel?
I will let you all know, when I have tested it how it works.
Click to expand...

Let me know how you get on please. I have a computer from pcspecialist which is getting a bit too long in the tooth although 2009 Beta 2 runs quite well running Trackplate's excellent Restormel Castle - GWR of course:D
 
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