Here's why I think so many people left Trainz recently

@KotangaGirl. Yep same here.

@amigacooke, Agreed. Lamentable situation. There is still some promising new content being shown on the British Trainz Forum. Though nowhere near the amounts being created years ago. I am looking forward to Dundun's new class 101. Hopefully not long for its premiere appearance. It looks quite slick.

@H222. Already own it. Had I known about the situation regarding exclusive content I would not have purchased. Having TRS2019 SP5 Build 117009 is just as good. TRS2022 has a slight improvement in FPS, I have found. The corporate greed comes from the apparent segmentation of N3V's customer base based upon ability to pay. And in my opinion the contemptuous attitude taken to those of us who cannot afford the higher cost choices available. That is a personal opinion which you may not understand because of a differing viewpoint or experience.

"d_doll’s original post (who by the way, is understandably banned after pirating payware and trolling full-time) is based on the fact that 2 groups shut down, one of which (CPS) ALL creators are still in the community, and greencoast, who left due to a Class I RR job eating into his hobby time. This whole thread has been based on unsubstantiated fact Upton unsubstantiated fact"

I cannot comment on the original poster's intentions or what he is guilty of. I only noticed HiBaller on here and wished to touch base with him to reminisce about the old days. Cheers.

bolivar said:

A slap in the face to those of us who cannot afford the premium brand.

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I would love to own a brand new Porsche but have to make do with a 6 year old Mazda instead but I never complain to the Porsche dealers about not being able to afford their "premium brand". When I leave the car at home I use public transport, not taxis or Uber. Likewise for a lot of things in my life I economise by buying the cheaper "No Name" versions instead of the more expensive "Premium" brands.

If I can't afford something at the premium price then I don't buy it and if there is no cheaper alternative available then I save up until I can buy it.

bolivar said:

We know where you and N3V stand on corporate greed and the contemptuous attitude to those who do not have deep pockets.

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A lot of wild assumptions in that statement based on emotion, not facts.

@pware.

"I would love to own a brand new Porsche but have to make do with a 6 year old Mazda instead but I never complain to the Porsche dealers about not being able to afford their "premium brand".

When the porsche dealer insults your ability to afford his "Premium"brand" , well I guess one has to defend oneself. No?

"When I leave the car at home I use public transport, not taxis or Uber. Likewise for a lot of things in my life I economise by buying the cheaper "No Name" versions instead of the more expensive "Premium" brands."

Are you trying to compete with me on the poverty scale? I had not realised we were in a competition to see who was poorer. LOL.

"A lot of wild assumptions in that statement based on emotion, not facts."

From the acknowledgement and agreement of others on this forum, regarding the segmentation and division of the customer base, hmmm , no not wild at all. In fact a mutual understanding due to a mutual experience shared by many a forum user. Judging from the comments of many on this forum, I am not in the minority, here.
Just poking my head out of the trenches and having pot shots taken at me. A sure sign that I what I am saying upsets those who have an emotional or financial stake in the current status quo. From that I will not retreat, unless I am thrown off the forum. I am trying to be as respectful as possible. If others decide to take that pot shot at me, I am quite within my rights to defend myself and my opinions.
@pware, I am happy to joust with you anytime. Of course in a most respectful way. Regards to you sir or madam.

@Kotangagirl, I just want to make mention of folks like Fourteen, who is doing most of his reskins in version 3.5 (as are several others!), and PWeiser, who is still working in version 2.9! It just goes to show that people can still create great assets with the earlier versions, and if things keep on as they are going, I may just go back and rediscover TS2009 and TS12. There is still a lot to explore out there!

Forester1 said:

@Kotangagirl, I just want to make mention of folks like Fourteen, who is doing most of his reskins in version 3.5 (as are several others!), and PWeiser, who is still working in version 2.9! It just goes to show that people can still create great assets with the earlier versions, and if things keep on as they are going, I may just go back and rediscover TS2009 and TS12. There is still a lot to explore out there!

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I still have my original TS2009 install archived away Forester and my original TS12 install is still loaded up on my present computer. I was creating for version 3.5, but when N3V lowered the bar on scripting for locomotives running myscript and similar scripts I pretty much gave up. I finally got my Midland Railway halfcab 0-6-0 accepted on the DLS with Ed Heap's help, but when the same thing happened to an ex-LNWR engine I'd done a fairly comprehensive reskin on I decided it wasn't fun anymore. If I make anything available from now on it will be via a link to my Dropbox account.

Thanks pware. Now let me see, A$2 per day, roughly $56 per month, $672 per year. Hmmm, nah, not on my fixed income stream. Cannot afford.

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Tomato/tomarto?

$2 a day = $14 a week
$2 a week = 28.6 cents a day

You've missed the price point by quite a margin.

And rather than $672 a year, the annual membership is $69.99.

So now that it's over $600 cheaper than the price you thought it was, does that change your thinking?

Oops my bad. Sorry. $69 per year is a bit better. I actually could afford that. Now I will have to look into the issue of value for money. Thanks Tony. You are trying , I appreciate that.

Life can take you thru wonderous places. Sometimes you'll stick around for years, sometimes you'll move on to greater ambitions. Some users maybe have just moved on, some have passed in recent years (my condolences to any of those Trainzers). You can't just pinpoint one thing and run with it. Several factors are at play here. The game has been shaky the past few years since TANE's initial launch, so everyone's just getting their bearings with the updated engine and such. Especially with PBR now being a thing in Trainz.

Personally, I've not been active in more recent years due to life changes and working on stuff for Gmod/SFM since 2017. However, this doesn't mean I'm gone forever. I'm just busy actively doing content for another game engine that isn't Trainz. Trust me, I come back every so often and have fun during the time I do my content for.

We all are growing older everyday, and for those who have stuck around, we all appreciate it!

:wave:

Many most if not all, squeaky wheels want oil! There are, I suspect, quite a number of people who are perfectly happy paying for a subscription. Some of whom do not have deep pockets or money to burn (of which category I fall into, I don't even have an income of my own). Please don't assume to know the financial status or motivations of other people.

pware said:

I suspect (and that is my unsupported impression only) that it is has become harder to create assets (i.e. buildings, rolling stock, especially trees, etc) that are of an "acceptable" standard to both Trainz and the community. I don't blame N3V for this as they have to ensure that visually the product keeps up with current standards. A common cause of problems in Trainz and a source of complaints in these forums is poorly built assets.

The issue of LODs in an asset, for example, is one area that is often raised. One well known creator has recently stated that he refuses to add them because of the extra work involved. This may be solved by a new trend in gaming software (N3V please take note) of building the ability to automatically generate the LODs into the game engine - but I shudder to think of the possible abnormalities that this may sometimes create.

What are the solutions - nothing simple or cheap that I can think of.
...

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Actually, there is a solution and I posted a link yesterday to a video made by N3V recently. Here it is again: https://contentcreation.trainzsimulator.com/ - the latest video entitled "Export from Blender to Trainz". The video is much more than the title suggests and describes two Blender addons developed by N3V to assist in creating LOD meshes and batch exports. The addons can be downloaded from this page: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...jdoLA4YSlOoF6M9gI/edit#heading=h.vyn8slnbbpeg

I haven't seen any announcement from N3V so maybe it isn't important enough for the newsletter or maybe the work isn't complete. IMHO it should be of interest to Trainz 3D model makers.

I agree that making models, and especially those using PBR materials, is harder. Some PBR texture creation tools are quite expensive but others are not, Cayden has put quite a lot of effort in developing tutorials for PBR Painter that is not particularly expensive.

The changes to the Trainzscript API is well overdue IMHO and should have been done years ago. Anyone have problems updating/converting their scripts is welcome to contact me, A couple of users have contributed some sample code on the WiKi as did N3V.

TBH, I think there has never been a better time to be a 3D model content creator. The results can be so much more satisfying than those from TS04/06/10/12 days.

Ditto Graham, Ditto. Assuming that anyone can pay for stuff without knowing the particular financial status of that person's is inappropriate. I do not have money to burn. Some assume that I must be lying or hiding. Even $69.99 a year must be calculated into my finite financial status. Someone earning the same amount as myself may have a far less amount of money outgoing, so they can afford things I cannot. It depends on the individual's ability to balance the outgoings with the income. Motivations are indeed another factor.
After looking at the choice this afternoon after finding I have the financial wherewithall to purchase a trainz plus subscription, I have decided against it as it not value for money for my purposes, not anyone else's but mine. I have already purchased all I want from the current DLC, apart from a particular item named HST. I will wait patiently for whatever amount of time it may take to eventually become available to those who wish to buy, not rent. That is not to say if anything comes onto the DLC that is of interest I may subscribe, but for now nothing that floats my boat. Still enjoying your Illawarra South Coast NSW layout. I would have purchased that layout, no questions asked. Excellent work. Regards .

bolivar said:

The corporate greed comes from the apparent segmentation of N3V's customer base based upon ability to pay.

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Sometimes I treat myself and buy better liquor. Sometimes I don't. The "ability to pay" is what the entire free market is based on. You can either buy things or you can't. That's how everything works. There has to be a reason to spend more than the standard amount and that's where this "exclusivity" comes from. N3V don't treat anybody like garbage because they don't have a subscription. Tony's point was not to demonise or patronise, it was that a) you were wrong by saying $2 a day, and b) the game is exceptionally cheap value. Even with Trainz+ Gold and a fair smattering of payware yearly trainz is still by far and away the cheapest hobby I've ever had based on dollars spent vs hours enjoyed, and I think that's the case for most people.

Jamie

Even with Trainz+ Gold and a fair smattering of payware yearly trainz is still by far and away the cheapest hobby I've ever had based on dollars spent vs hours enjoyed, and I think that's the case for most people.

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We can fix that for you. Your membership renewal will be increased accordingly. (/joking)

Tony_Hilliam said:

Tomato/tomarto?

$2 a day = $14 a week
$2 a week = 28.6 cents a day

You've missed the price point by quite a margin.

And rather than $672 a year, the annual membership is $69.99.

So now that it's over $600 cheaper than the price you thought it was, does that change your thinking?

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When software becomes a regular expense, I add it on to all the other regular expenses, such as utilities, accommodation, food, travel, etc. If times are economically tight, perhaps a cost of living crisis, then existing regular expenses may have to be cut and new expenses, however 'cheap' can not be considered. I've recently dumped my cable supplier because it was just not affordable.

If this is the case, a company that only appears to have one tune, 'get a subscription', when it apparently offers a one off purchase option is quite irritating. Questions are being asked on exclusive DLC release policy, ie what is the time frame, and are apparently being ignored because they do not promote the subscription option in any way.

I don't have a subscription for Adobe or Microsoft products, not because I particularly object to the method of payment, I just can't justify the regular cost.

amigacooke said:

When software becomes a regular expense, I add it on to all the other regular expenses, such as utilities, accommodation, food, travel, etc. If times are economically tight, perhaps a cost of living crisis, then existing regular expenses may have to be cut and new expenses, however 'cheap' can not be considered. I've recently dumped my cable supplier because it was just not affordable.

If this is the case, a company that only appears to have one tune, 'get a subscription', when it apparently offers a one off purchase option is quite irritating. Questions are being asked on exclusive DLC release policy, ie what is the time frame, and are apparently being ignored because they do not promote the subscription option in any way.

I don't have a subscription for Adobe or Microsoft products, not because I particularly object to the method of payment, I just can't justify the regular cost.

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You know, Tony has answered in many threads now, that there is retail version, you can purchase and not have ongoing cost. Does he rally need to answer every thread of cost to include the retail version, then the complaint was the miscalculated cost of the subscription? For that matter, at the top of every thread/forum is the buttons for buying Trainz 22 or the mobile version. Clicking on the Trainz 22 button, lays out the three options, one of which is the retail version, which is on sale now for under $40 USD. If you time the deals right, you can keep the retail version of Trainz 22 for a year's subscription to Trainz plus, plus fast downloads, and all the other features.

I find it irritating to have to answer many times the same thing. It is just odd, that we expect bug fixes, new features, new tutorials and yet to answer the same thing over and over.

amigacooke said:

If this is the case, a company that only appears to have one tune, 'get a subscription', when it apparently offers a one off purchase option is quite irritating. Questions are being asked on exclusive DLC release policy, ie what is the time frame, and are apparently being ignored because they do not promote the subscription option in any way.

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There appears to be a contradiction in that sentence. I am sure that you actually meant "because they do not promote the purchase option".

That is understandable. Companies will always promote the option that gives them the greatest revenue stream with other less profitable options listed further down the page (or on the back page). That is marketing! I don't know how it is in the UK but when ads for cars are shown here it is almost always the top of the range model that is shown.

As Capdiamont points out in his post above, click on the Trainz 22 link at the top of this page and scroll down. You will see 3 options side-by-side in order - TRS22 outright purchase, Trainz Plus membership and Gold Class membership.

pware said:

As Capdiamont points out in his post above, click on the Trainz 22 link at the top of this page and scroll down. You will see 3 options side-by-side in order - TRS22 outright purchase, Trainz Plus membership and Gold Class membership.

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I'm well aware of the options and what they all offer, at present nothing that I'm buying.

This may well change when S20 makes its way out of subscription only.

H222 said:

trainz is still by far and away the cheapest hobby I've ever had based on dollars spent vs hours enjoyed, and I think that's the case for most people.

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Model railroading (the "real life alternative" to Trainz) is at least several times more expensive than Trainz, because a good-quality DCC/Sound locomotive can run you past $200 USD, ONE freight car will set you back $50 USD, a DCC throttle will cost around $150 USD, benchwork, scenic elements and foam will get you past $300 USD, high-quality Nickel-Silver track can set you back thousands of dollars if your railroad is big enough, AND you need a large room or space to actually build the thing. You're easily dropping several thousand dollars to build a model railroad that equates to some of the smaller routes built in Trainz (these numbers relate to HO Scale, the most popular. OO should be about the same). With that same money, you could purchase the Trainz 22 Gold Subscription, an entire JointedRail Lifetime Clubcar membership, AND buy out a significant portion of JR, RRMods and the Trainz DLC store, not to mention the thousands of free assets on the DLS. Model railroading, while fun, is expensive, time consuming and even impossible for some people, and Trainz provides a cheaper and more versatile platform to play with trains.

Compared to model railroading, Trainz feels like a steal.

pcas1986 said:

Actually, there is a solution and I posted a link yesterday to a video made by N3V recently. Here it is again: https://contentcreation.trainzsimulator.com/ - the latest video entitled "Export from Blender to Trainz". The video is much more than the title suggests and describes two Blender addons developed by N3V to assist in creating LOD meshes and batch exports. The addons can be downloaded from this page: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...jdoLA4YSlOoF6M9gI/edit#heading=h.vyn8slnbbpeg

I haven't seen any announcement from N3V so maybe it isn't important enough for the newsletter or maybe the work isn't complete. IMHO it should be of interest to Trainz 3D model makers.

I agree that making models, and especially those using PBR materials, is harder. Some PBR texture creation tools are quite expensive but others are not, Cayden has put quite a lot of effort in developing tutorials for PBR Painter that is not particularly expensive.

The changes to the Trainzscript API is well overdue IMHO and should have been done years ago. Anyone have problems updating/converting their scripts is welcome to contact me, A couple of users have contributed some sample code on the WiKi as did N3V.

TBH, I think there has never been a better time to be a 3D model content creator. The results can be so much more satisfying than those from TS04/06/10/12 days.

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Thank you very much for your kind offer Paul. Once I'm feeling better and I get my project files sorted out I will PM you about taking a look the script problems I'm having.