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Thread: Surveyor 2.0 - Discussion Thread

  1. #151
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    Has N3V considered a feature that automatically places user inputted textures depending on the height, slope and properties, of the terrain? e.g. A system that automatically places a particular snow texture on mountain peaks greater than a certain height, adds rocks on high slopes, and adds user inputted textures underneath water?

  2. #152
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    Are procedural embankments planned?
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  3. #153
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    A feature that I sued to absolutely love, which went missing a few Trainz versions ago, was "Alt M M M G" or "Make Me A Map George" where random landscaping, texturing and trees/shrubs were placed across a baseboard or two. It enabled me to make many a fictional layout and tinker happily for hours with surveyor.
    With the quest for realism and trying to turn Trainz into a "Simulator", sometimes I feel the Developers are forgetting "the Trainz legacy" and the original "Brew Crew's" ideal that this was to be a model railway simulation and I hope N3V never lose sight of that. The appeal across all ages came from its versatility and the ease of use of Surveyor, coupled with the fact that if there is an error in an asset, the game itself doesn't crash around your ears - unlike Trainz' main competitors.

    I very much like the look or Surveyor2 and hope it is as easy to use.
    There are two ways of doing things: the Great Western way, or the wrong way!

  4. #154
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    Good afternoon from France !

    I used Flight Simulator 4 to learn to fly and from version 5 to version X to create planes, stories, adventures, landscapes, etc.
    I acquired P3D without being able to create much and quickly gave up MSFS 2020 which is just a simulator that is too complex to program.
    Trainz allows me to continue to create, to believe myself that I am a demiurge or a programmer ...
    As long as thzt will be possible, I'll be there ...

    Anyway this forum is read and fed only by demiurges and programmers !

    regards

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by sterrett View Post
    A feature that I sued to absolutely love, which went missing a few Trainz versions ago, was "Alt M M M G" or "Make Me A Map George" where random landscaping, texturing and trees/shrubs were placed across a baseboard or two. It enabled me to make many a fictional layout and tinker happily for hours with surveyor.
    With the quest for realism and trying to turn Trainz into a "Simulator", sometimes I feel the Developers are forgetting "the Trainz legacy" and the original "Brew Crew's" ideal that this was to be a model railway simulation and I hope N3V never lose sight of that. The appeal across all ages came from its versatility and the ease of use of Surveyor, coupled with the fact that if there is an error in an asset, the game itself doesn't crash around your ears - unlike Trainz' main competitors.

    I very much like the look or Surveyor2 and hope it is as easy to use.
    There is a utility that allows for the random placement of trees across the landscape. It's not the same, I know but at least that's still here. I used to love using M-M-M-G as well and then build a route based on the landscape. It was that latter part that led me to take existing routes, or those generated by HOG and TransDEM and put in railway lines where nothing ever existed. It takes a lot more work doing that, but the results can be not only quite nice, but also quite convincing.
    John
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  6. #156
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    Allo allo Jean
    I played MS FS too in the early days and learned to fly
    1 day 3 friends of mine (1 is a real pilot) and me rented a Cessna plane
    and flew over the delta works south west of my country.
    after a few km in the air the pilot gave me full control of the plane
    and I flew it like I was a pilot for many years, the pilot stared at me and said , how on......
    I just shrugged and said, I played MSFS for a year :-)
    My landing still is bad (but we made it alive)


    Yes Jean that is the biggest fun of Trainz, its an open system and we can all contribute, modify create
    as long as that stays, it has no competition :-)


    Agree with sterret "Make Me A Map George" is a fun way to start something, hope it can return.
    Are procedural embankments planned? maybe we can make embankments like procedural track (no rails ofc)
    never tried :-)
    Last edited by G.M.; October 3rd, 2021 at 10:00 AM.

  7. #157

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    All that shows me is that SimRail is a "pretty screenshot generator" - for all I know it may be terrible at railroad operations, layout construction, driving experience, etc.
    Play the demo before you make inane remarks. It is already far more realistic than TRS19 will ever be.

    In regards driver operation and realism in railway operations.

  8. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovetrainzloathen3v View Post
    Play the demo before you make inane remarks. It is already far more realistic than TRS19 will ever be.

    In regards driver operation and realism in railway operations.

    Then I guess, I am afraid to say, that you actually never had the chance to play TRS19 with proper assets.

    As a person who did try SimRail demo, all I can say is that it is horrible. Not even good for screenshots. The only thing more real than TRS19 is the cab, and even that is hypersensitive with controls. There is no pause menu, drawing distance is miserable, camera is pathetic, the optimisation is terrible and the in-cab controls and keyboard shortcuts are not explained at all.

    TRS19 is far better game than SR2021. Give it few more years of development and it might be on par with TRS19, but by that time next Trainz game will be out. Right now SR2021 is even worse than Train Simulator.

    Also, stop trying to advertise and defend that terrible game. If people are interested in it, they have other places to talk about it.
    Richard Bosnak

    Central Europe Development Team

  9. #159
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    At the risk of dragging this thread on topic again, I would like to express my hope that this new version of Surveyor will keep the ease of use for those that have fallen in love with it for that, but also add some much needed options for people who are running into its limitations. I am eager to try the multiselect tool for moving and rotating objects. For me that would be a prime selling point already.

  10. #160
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    According to Tony's original post that announced Surveyor 2.0, you will have the option of using Surveyor 2.0 or Surveyor 1.0. Possibly (and this is my speculation here) through a settings option so it should be possible to switch between the two.
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  11. #161
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    This is more of a general question about the next release but I guess it pertains to S2.0 as well. Is there any chance we'll see an updated SpeedTree version for the next Trainz? As far as I know, SpeedTree V6 is no longer available, and it would be awesome to be able to make custom plant assets with the newest ST version.

  12. #162
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    If the past is anything to go by then we (and N3V) will probably have no choice in the matter but to upgrade to the latest SpeedTrees version. However, SpeedTrees are now owned by Unity Technologies who bought out the previous owner, IDV, earlier this year. While IDV had a policy of forcing all licensees of their software, e.g, N3V, to upgrade to the latest version, it is not known if Unity will have the same policy.
    Trainz Plus (TRS19) build 114800 (SP4)
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  13. #163
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    Be careful what you wish for with speedtree. The current version is v8 and we use v6. There would be a development cost involved, not to mention that we would be back to incompatibility between tree versions trying to update trees again like TS12/T:ANE and having less choice to begin with. Speedtree v7 has Eucalypts whereas v8 does not, which would annoy Australian builders. Speaking of creators, we lost at least 2 tree creators with the last speedtree version change, why risk losing those that remain.
    Sure the trees look nice, but they will come with a price.

  14. #164
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    Yes but that won't stop 3rd party creators from creating new trees in V8. North American builders haven't had access to proper Western/Rocky Mountain speedtrees yet, and having the current build available could certainly bring new content creators, or perhaps even bring ones like Jankvis back into the speedtree game. I know that if Trainz gets an updated ST version I will certainly be looking into putting some money towards a few months of a speedtree license.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayneshorter1965 View Post
    Yes but that won't stop 3rd party creators from creating new trees in V8. North American builders haven't had access to proper Western/Rocky Mountain speedtrees yet, and having the current build available could certainly bring new content creators, or perhaps even bring ones like Jankvis back into the speedtree game. I know that if Trainz gets an updated ST version I will certainly be looking into putting some money towards a few months of a speedtree license.
    While I agree with you on the tree species, the problem is compatibility with the binary code part of the Speed Trees. The problem we ran into before is TS12 was on V5 of the Speed Trees. When N3V was forced to update to V6 due to switching to 64-bit, because IDV didn't have cross-licensing between the platforms, this left all the V5 assets out in the cold. The problem was the new trees will not work with the old binaries. This is what is called a dead end path where the asset remains where it is.

    The other issue we face is cost. The Speed Tree program is expensive to purchase and quite expensive to "rent". In the past, N3V purchased license-seats for the content creators to be able to create content. I'm not sure there's an upgrade available for previous versions, as there is for other programs or not, but that still doesn't solve our binary compatibility issue.

    In part the problem is caused by our use of Speed Trees. The rest of the gaming and CG world uses Speed Trees once in a version. The content is also controlled by the company specifically, so if there's an upgrade from V6 to V11, for example, it won't matter because it's a closed environment. The problem we have is we use the assets long term, so assets created in one version have to remain in that version and can't be updated to the new version that may come out.

    It's too bad that IDV, and now probably Unity, didn't think long term, but then again like most companies these days they're into the game, so to speak, for the short term to get what they can out of the market.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 114800
    TRS22 Beta tester

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