Using Anti-Virus Programs Concurrently With TRS 2019

Just an FYI Post - Anti-Virus = Crashes - maybe

My build is 11951. PC = 4.2ghz 4 thread CPU, 8gb of DDR3 memory, 1060 3gb memory video card. Frame rates usually around 30 which is the set top limit.

I use three CONCURRENT anti-virus programs - Malwarebytes, Webroot and Windows Defender.

While I have had a few spontaneous crash-to-desktop events they are very sporadic. Turning off Malwarebytes and Webroot shows no noticeable performance change. Microsoft allowing Defender to be completely shut off is unlikely, so I do not touch it. With my limited hardware setup I need every free cycle. I can cause real slow performance if I set the N3V settings too high. But I am satisfied with the visual display and train movements in heavily vegetated, N.E. USA areas (C&O Hinton). Spending $1,000 for better numbers isn't needed in my case.

I mention this as there is always discussion about Anti-Virus and Trainz crashes. My feeling is that the three programs I run provide the level of protection I desire. I do suspect that three different brands my not work and will drive you nuts.

Note: A very sophisticated flight sim works well on this system. But their latest release dies due to insufficient video card memory (3gb).

All settings to the max to "get your money's worth" may lead to spending more money.

The general rule is not to run more than one antivirus program concurrently. Running Malwarebytes as a secondary scanning program is fine and Webroot running as a antispyware utility is fine as long as it's not scanning the files on the computer at the same time as the installed antivirus program. The reason for this is the various antivirus/antimalware programs can stomp on each other and also the multiple programs are all loaded into memory and that too can cause performance issues as you've noted for some programs such as Trainz which makes use of as much RAM as it can being a 64-bit application.

The problem with Trainz and the antivirus programs is the antivirus programs tend t stomp on the data and sometimes the application especially if the antivirus program also provides network firewall protection. The problem with the antivirus stomping on the data is caused by Trainz opening up the numerous amounts of data files. Each time a file is accessed, the antivirus program needs to scan it. With many files being opened, the antivirus attacks each file causing extra disk access overhead, thus, program performance problems. With the antivirus going after the executable, this can cause data corruption. Some antivirus programs are more sensitive than others and will also stomp on applications that replace or append executables such as the patch installer while TANE and TRS19 are being updated. The antivirus program sees the touching of these data files and executables as a threat and acts accordingly.

To get around these issues, it's recommend to turn off the real-time scanning of Trainz data folders and the program files. This doesn't mean totally disabling the antivirus program. This means only excluding the Trainz program and data files file scanning. The antivirus program will still scan the disk and subsequently these very same Trainz data and executable files during off hours instead of when the files are being accessed.

So yeah, if your antivirus products are stomping on the Trainz program and data, or even just the data, this can cause weird things to happen and crashes usually occur with weird things happening. Some years ago, I had an issue with Vipre antivirus. Sunbelt Software's VIPRE antivirus was a great program, but they made changes to it that went into a snit when some network protocols were executed a certain way. The certain way being Content Manager in TRS2009 or TS2010 going out to the DLS to get content. Since I used to run with the TADDaemon window open, I saw the network connect fine, data start to be accessed, and then the connection being interrupted. After some long hours of troubleshooting, I disabled the antivirus program and the problem went away. The real-time scanning had already been disabled, but there was no way to completely prevent the program from stopping the network access.

After spending some useless time on the phone with Sunbelt, I gave up on their product and moved on to something else. I think it was Trend Micro at the time, which proved to be a formidable application back then.

I think third-party anti-virus programs must be a big waste of time, money and performance. I have used nothing more than Win10 Defender for years and not had a single problem.

Even John McAfee gave up on his program recently in the most emphatic way possible.

The only anti-virus I’m interesting in getting now is a second shot of Astra Zeneca.


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The first thing I did when I bought my newest computer with Windows 10 on it was to kill Windows Defender. I didn't have it turned on turned on in my Win7 machines either. Malware Bytes is a nice thing to run one a week or so, especially against your Download folders and ones accessed by your browser.

My go-to anti-malware application for years (at least 10) has been Emsisoft AntiMalware. It is unobtrusive and can be told not to mess with whole drives if you want. Since my Trainz versions are on a 1TB drive, each in their own installation directory, I simply tell EAM not to touch drive V:.

I would never have more than one A/V app running, even in the background, for many reasons. Primary is the system overhead to run such a program.

Bill

Always used Windows Defender only (and Microsoft Security Essentials before) and never had a single problem.

Dinorius_Redundicus said:

I think third-party anti-virus programs must be a big waste of time, money and performance. I have used nothing more than Win10 Defender for years and not had a single problem.

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HiBaller said:

The first thing I did when I bought my newest computer with Windows 10 on it was to kill Windows Defender. I didn't have it turned on turned on in my Win7 machines either.

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This is a topic that is bound to bring out a wide diversity of views, and often contradictory ones as well. Search the web for opinions from the sites that offer software performance/quality/etc comparisons and you will also get a wide variety of opinions.

It is true that MS Defender has come a long way from its early (and it must be said, woeful) days. But the majority of comparison sites that I looked at stated much the same (but often in different terms and with different examples) that MS Defender is close to but still not as good as some of the commercial AV offerings. Its main failings (as mentioned in many of the reviews) are a "clunkier" interface that is not as easy to navigate, poor(er) parental controls, no cross platform support, a lack of "advanced" features such as an integrated password manager and PC health checker that offers a performance booster and/or cleanup. There are some claims that MS does not update its AV database as often as the others.

But, of course, it is free and that is a consideration that cannot be ignored.

In my case, I have a multisystem license from McAfee that I am very happy with.

I use Trend Micro and have done for years and I turn off checking Trainz areas as mentioned by John. Win Defender is off since I don't see much point in have two programs doing the same thing. Trend now has, at an extra cost, some network protection that I might have another look at. Western Digital told me today that its MyBook external drives when connected to a network have security issues and I've been using them for years.

pcas1986 said:

.... Western Digital told me today that its MyBook external drives when connected to a network have security issues and I've been using them for years.

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I did some digging into this and found the WD MyBook series were affected only if they were hooked up as a network drive EXTERNAL to a computer, such as connected to the USB port on a router/switch and given their own IP address. Still, it seems pretty scary they are just now tumbling to the threat.

Bill

Hi!
We've used Trend for many years - we currently have a 10 install licence.
That sounds a lot, but it includes Android phones & tablets, desktop & laptops.

For our use, it's reassuring, particularly when it comes to email and email attachments, text messages (Android phones) and web browsing.
On my PC, I have a games folder that is excluded from live checking, as well as the appropriate folders in the User folder.
Once, I had it checking everything, but this crippled Trainz because it loads files dynamically.

Your choice of anti-virus should match your expected exposure. If you have just a games machine with no email or personal data, your need isn't the same as someone who keeps accounts, personal data etc.
If you have a home network, then you need to consider the highest risks, and I'd suggest use the same protection on all of them.

FYI, I'm running TS19 on an i5 CPU @ 4.2 GHz, 16Gb Ram.
It was good with the GTX 770 I had - being medium settings and some shadows. This GPU brewed up 2019/20 so I managed to get an RTX 2060 and that's running at High to Ultra.

TS19 is kinder on the CPU than earlier versions, so I think you can have a reasonable experience without spending much!

Colin

I'm using a McAfee business version with ePO, 10 licenses. It includes firewall and browser extensions. It manages the Defender and such and warns when some other anti virus tries to worm its way in, like the annoying ad in CCleaner tries to add an anti virus. The only other thing I run is CCleaner to clean up the cookie mess and registry.

I run Trainz on 3 different laptops and have never had to set anything special and have never had an issue with Trainz. I can manage all the computers from one interface, it's cloud based. I have been using it for several years and it just one of those things you set it and forget it.