Annoying circular moving pattern on rails

Does anyone know if there are any graphics settings I can change to remove the constantly moving circular moire patterns I always see rendered on rails? Here is a screenshot.

http://images.n3vgames.com/trainzportal/mytrainz/328143/screenshots/188788/1000/Circular-Moire-pattern-on-rails-is-drivng-me-crazy%21.jpg

It is actually much worse when you are playing the game then the screenshot depicts.

I do not see anything wrong in your screen shot.

I think he means the pixels showing where the sleepers are creating a circular pattern. Try fiddling with your graphics settings.

you mean the ones between the loco and the junction ?
Like the sleepers are washed out and distorted

Yes they look Moire Patterns and are a part of both nature and the man-made environment whenever you get two fixed patterns (e.g. regularly spaced track sleepers and the strobe effect of your screen refresh rate) coinciding or interfering with each other. They occur in the real world as well as in Trainz simulators, so Trainz is doing its job of simulating the real world.

Not too sure what you can do about it - perhaps tweak your screen refresh rate?

Moiré patterns are more of a visible nuisance when you are tracking a moving consist from a camera PoV above. The moirés will reduce considerably if you move from Camera mode 2 to 3 or 4, so that the track itself remains static and only the consist moves.
I find changing the track type (using bulk replace) can help if you are working/ driving one of your own routes. For example, replace dark wooden sleepers with lighter coloured concrete ones - e.g. <kuid2:661281:44169:3> TRS19 Trk Jarrah 2 - Procedural - Seasonal with <kuid2:661281:44262:11> TRS19 Track Concrete 4 Procedural - Seasonal for a considerable (but not complete) reduction in moirés.
Often it is the PBR ballast that influences the appearance of such interference.

This same problem was discussed recently in a thread about some MSGSapper track. Since moire patterns depend on contrast between repeating parallel lines, it’s best to choose tracks that have low contrast (in colour and brightness) between the sleepers and the ballast. Also if the tracks have 3D sleepers, go for those that are buried well into the ballast. The reason is that the vertical, long edges of the sleepers can be darkly shadowed which contrasts sharply with the ballast and the top surface of the sleepers. Reducing the amount of exposed edges reduces moire patterns.

Replace the track with non-procedural track. JR has placed many great looking ones on the DLS.

For procedural track, take a look at the SAM track by user Samplaire. The load up well and don't seem exhibit this issue. He has also create many, many kinds including rusty, grassy sidings, rusty, new, old, etc., and it all works well and looks nice.

Run freeware routes and find the best track that works for you. Then on existing routes use replace tool.

Here is another image where I have circled the problem in red. Yes if I use camera mode 4, the pattern does not move but it is still there. But as soon as I move the camera or use the other camera modes that move with the consist, I see constant motion of the moire pattern. Yes I have seen moire patterns in the real-world but I have never seen this effect on railway tracks in the real world. For those of you who say to "just find a good track that does not have the problem and replace it" - I appreciate your knowledge and recommendation, but I am not interested at all in editing or tweaking routes - only driving routes. Although the route I posted in the screenshots came with TRS19 Platinum (Midwestern Branch), I have seen the same issue on all other TRS19 routes and in previous generations of Trainz. It would be great to hear from the route designer "hiawathamr" what his opinion is of the track used for his route and this particular issue. It would be great if there was a simple fix for this issue say simply by changing my graphics settings or a fix from N3V to make the issue go away as it does detract from my enjoyment of the otherwise outstanding train simulator.

If you continue to discount the advice you get, then it is unlikely that you will ever enjoy a solution. I have most all the earlier versions of Trainz, and the moire only started showing up with procedural track. Good luck.

Your second illustration supports the contention that choice of track greatly influences the visibility of moiré patterns. Substituting the track with another type that does not display such interference patterns is pretty much the only viable solution if you have a powerful GPU and high resolution display. If you are loathe to replace, then you'll need to learn to live with it, or use the other work-arounds we've mentioned above, since moirés are a visible reminder of the physics of light diffraction and our human-eye perception of movement/ patterns.
It is NOT just a PBR or procedural track phenomenon either. For T:ANE users, check out the excessive moirés in <kuid2:30501:1001:10> TANE Trk Oak compared with, say, <kuid2:523:1116:5> TANE Trk Concrete. Then compare the latter with non-ProTrack alternatives. Moirés were an issue with Trainz 2006 builds (TRS2006) too! (They're just better-defined in T:ANE and TRS19) :wave:

I appreciate everyone's response, and yes I will continue to live with it as I have for many years. I must say however that unlike the laws of physics in the real world, in the software world pretty much any technical issue can be resolved, including hopefully this issue at some point.

Nethog61 said:

I appreciate everyone's response, and yes I will continue to live with it as I have for many years. I must say however that unlike the laws of physics in the real world, in the software world pretty much any technical issue can be resolved, including hopefully this issue at some point.

Click to expand...

There is a solution to this and this requires changing the textures of the ballast as well as the distance between the ties and ballast, and the angles of the ballast against the ties. This can offset the ballast in ties just enough to prevent the effect from occurring. The only way to fix this on the asset is to remake them from scratch. MSG Sapper did that with his track, and as I said some track is better than others.

The phenomenon is the same as what occurs in the printing industry when printing plates are set at the wrong angle. Images are broken down into four colors Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and Black or (CMYK). If each plate is placed dot over dot, or color on top of a color, the create mud so to avoid mud the colors are placed at 15-degree angles to each other. If one of the colors is angled incorrectly, the moiré effect occurs.

With the circular pattern we see, it's referred to as Newton's rings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_rings

This also an issue in printing caused by the circular rosettes used in printing colors, and I witnessed this many times on imagesetters and digital proofing devices if the angles are set incorrectly. These too have to be offset similarly to the various plates to prevent the moiré pattern from occurring then. Although this doesn't cost a job or company to go out of business if the assets have this, but this did cost the printer who produced Lands End catalogs his business. He used to use an expensive digital half-tone proofing device but opted for a cheap inkjet. The inkjet didn't show the rosettes on the proof, the agency that did the catalogs signed off on the proof because everything looked fine. Everything went to press and over 100K catalogs were produced with swirling patterns on the striped shirts! The client rejected the job and this put him under since Lands End was his largest customer. This is why he needed the half-tone proofer. Inject printers can't print half-tones and use stochastic processes to simulate the printing.

Anyway just a bit on rosettes and Newton's rings, which are related to what's happening on our screens. As I said the assets need to be remade.

Newton's rings used to be a "right pain in the darkroom" when making prints in an enlarger with glass negative carriers. Any moisture in the air getting between the negative and glass caused the problem. I believe caused by diffraction between the different materials, and difficult to eliminate when the wet process was in the same room.

Sorry if I'm off topic,
Chris.

chrisaw said:

Newton's rings used to be a "right pain in the darkroom" when making prints in an enlarger with glass negative carriers. Any moisture in the air getting between the negative and glass caused the problem. I believe caused by diffraction between the different materials, and difficult to eliminate when the wet process was in the same room.

Sorry if I'm off topic,
Chris.

Click to expand...

I remember this too with Photostats during the summertime. A bit of humidity and we'd go crazy!