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Thread: Tutorial: Getting the most from PBR and why you should be using it in TRS19

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangavel View Post
    You are absolutely right, I apologise for griping and pointing out why some of us aren't that keen to change over and accept new tech . I apologise for spewing forth excuses and I expect , given your enthusiasm , that you will do what Bob has done and convert all your content to the new formats ,make it freeware and , when you have finished all your content , that you will also contribute to converting other old assets like Ben Dorsey's to be able to take advantage of 2019 features. When you have finished with that , I have about 9000 assets that also need to be converted , so let me know when you can get started and I'll send you a link so you can work on them.

    But Kilrbe3 has, not a single item of his on the DLS is not TS19 and PBR.

    Cheerio John

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwhelan View Post
    But Kilrbe3 has, not a single item of his on the DLS is not TS19 and PBR.

    Cheerio John
    I know....., my tongue was firmly inserted into my cheek, but I do admire his enthusiasm and I'm sure he will be a great help to the PBR cause.......
    WARNING! The Surgeon General has determined that the use of the simulator Trainz is highly addictive,

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    Oh look, it's more excuses!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSGSapper View Post
    I tend to use the generic Blender shader editor node set up shown in the below screenshot:
    ...
    You only need that shader node model when you are ready to export the FBX files for Trainz. i.e. you can use other node setups to achieve the effects you want, bake the textures, and then swap to the export model and link the textures as you described.

    BTW, you can save that Trainz node setup using the Material Library VX tool located in the material section. I saved mine as a "rename-me.m.pbrmetal". You can do something similar with the other PBR material types.

    Paul


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrbe3 View Post
    Oh look, it's more excuses!
    No, not at all, we just want you to set an example and walk the walk like Bob has done ( and for which I admire him greatly ) and all those other folks who are busy creating assets for YOU to use.
    You see , I don't 3D model, so I'd have to learn a program, since I used to teach media , I know just how long it takes to get a decent understanding of a 3D program, I dabbled with Bryce, 3D max , Carrara ,sketchup and blender and have even produced a few basic models , but given I make routes and am 68 , I figure I will never have the time to make all the 3D assets I need for the two routes I am working on to the standard I'd be pleased to share with others , so I just take other people's assets where I have nothing I can use for building and reskin them as freeware. As it's taken over three years to get out about 3rds through a 80 mile route I am darned if I'm going to work a couple of years extra so all those thousands of original assets to be 2019 compliant just to please someone like you,
    Since you are so keen on PBR ,to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure you will take up the challenge. We await your first PBR asset with anticipation that you will do a great job. You can even do some tutorials to show us old fuddy duddys the way. be sure to let us know how you are progressing .
    To be serious , if there was a way to batch produce textures and save a lot of time I'd be more keen to take up the challenge . As for Kilrbe3, you need to get creating ,not criticising people like John who have created many items which he has shared with others , especially since , as far as I can see, you haven't created any ( or if you have , you've kept them in house.......)
    WARNING! The Surgeon General has determined that the use of the simulator Trainz is highly addictive,

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    Question? Does the Parameters file need an Alpha channel, if so why, as I see some with and some without the Alpha channel. And does the file size, as in pixels, of the Parameters, matter and does the DPI of any of the textures matter.


    John
    Last edited by JohnnyC1; February 12th, 2020 at 03:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC1 View Post
    Question? Does the Parameters file need an Alpha channel, if so why, as I see some with and some without the Alpha channel. And does the file size, as in pixels, of the Parameters, matter and does the DPI of any of the textures matter.


    John
    According to the spec ( http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/M.pbrmetal) you are supposed to provide one. But it wouldn't surprise me if Trainz defaulted to some value. If it were all white then the material should be very metallic and probably shiny. If black then it would be dull (dirlectric).

    Size is not a good measure since many creators are switching to PNG format which is invariably smaller than TGA. Once committed it will be Trainz texture format anyway. By DPI I assume you mean number of pixels per inch (PPI) rather than a TV/monitor resolution. Generally the more pixels per inch then better the quality. It's up to the creator to choose - at least within the range allowed to us.

    Paul


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    Quote Originally Posted by dangavel View Post
    To be serious , if there was a way to batch produce textures and save a lot of time I'd be more keen to take up the challenge .

    There is it is called substance painter LOL I import the mesh and texture it using layers and then when I export it makes the 3 files (albedo, perimeter, and normal) lickety split and I do not have to do anything but set the res and hit a button

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcas1986 View Post
    You only need that shader node model when you are ready to export the FBX files for Trainz. i.e. you can use other node setups to achieve the effects you want, bake the textures, and then swap to the export model and link the textures as you described.

    BTW, you can save that Trainz node setup using the Material Library VX tool located in the material section. I saved mine as a "rename-me.m.pbrmetal". You can do something similar with the other PBR material types.
    Paul:

    That is an extremely useful tip which I will check out. Thanks!

    Bob
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrscsi View Post
    There is it is called substance painter LOL I import the mesh and texture it using layers and then when I export it makes the 3 files (albedo, perimeter, and normal) lickety split and I do not have to do anything but set the res and hit a button

    But what you haven't really explained is do you create the texture files in the conventional way, UV map in Blender or do I get the impression that Blender uses them directly. How do you make changes to the texture file for things such as reskinning?

    Cheerio John

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrscsi View Post
    There is it is called substance painter LOL I import the mesh and texture it using layers and then when I export it makes the 3 files (albedo, perimeter, and normal) lickety split and I do not have to do anything but set the res and hit a button
    I think the point is that it's not free and as Adobe have taken over and if it survives in the same form, will probably get a price hike.

    The Perpetual License version has a lot of bad reviews on Steam re frequent crashes, possibly not the same version as the rental one? Or just the can't use it properly club? Probably requires a Steam account which is something I will never use.

    Has anyone looked at 3d coat?
    Malc


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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwhelan View Post
    But what you haven't really explained is do you create the texture files in the conventional way, UV map in Blender or do I get the impression that Blender uses them directly. How do you make changes to the texture file for things such as reskinning?

    Cheerio John
    I use 3ds max and yes I model the same old way and set up the UV's now where the workflow has changed for me anyway is as I am working I keep track of how many materials I want on the model. I assign each material a separate ID and assign a different color to each using the multi sub object (and I am sure there is something similar in blender) now once I get all the parts and pieces colored the way I want I render that out to a single texture and set up a simple material and use that map and put that on all the meshes.

    Then there is a fbx exporter for substance for 3ds as I am sure there is for blender as well that exports the mesh to substance and once you are in substance I put different materials on layer by layer using a COLOR map as a guide. Now you CAN free paint anything you want but if I am just gonna have 8 materials 3 wood and 5 metal for example, I use color selection since it is fast and easy and I can tweak the look as I go along.

    Then once the model looks good in substance I export those textures and clicking one button after setting res and exporter and my 3 files are done and ready to place on that simple material in 3ds and then name it properly and export...

    Basically it is color masking on steroids

    That is the workflow in a nutshell and YES it is easier than doing photo textures when you are trying to skew and distort and stretch to make a pic work if you didn't take it and get perfect 90 degree shots.

    I do not reskin to me that is a exercise in futility since without the mesh you are just guessing
    Last edited by mrscsi; February 12th, 2020 at 12:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    I think the point is that it's not free and as Adobe have taken over and if it survives in the same form, will probably get a price hike.

    The Perpetual License version has a lot of bad reviews on Steam re frequent crashes, possibly not the same version as the rental one? Or just the can't use it properly club? Probably requires a Steam account which is something I will never use.

    Has anyone looked at 3d coat?
    Ya paid 60 bux for the game.

    Now look I get the whole "it aint free" argument but it rings hollow when you are buying a 60 dollar game and pay JR 15 bux for a loco...

    Sorry

  14. #89
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    My 3ds Max FBX exporter is incompatible with TANE / TRS19, I have Max10, needs a minimum of 2013 I think . There is a convoluted method of using Autodesk's FBX converter which will convert the old FBX to a newer version or convert 3ds to FBX as well, not entirely successful though and you loose the animation. Also got Softimage, same problem with the FBX exporter.
    Meanwhile I'm trying to get my head around Blender which compared to Max is not an easy to learn program, especially when they keep changing it.
    I can get 3ds into Blender which is a help.

    Afraid Autodesk is not getting any more custom from me since going all subscription, which really is way too expensive for a hobby.
    Malc


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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwhelan View Post
    But what you haven't really explained is do you create the texture files in the conventional way, UV map in Blender or do I get the impression that Blender uses them directly. How do you make changes to the texture file for things such as reskinning?

    Cheerio John
    John:

    Re-skinning should not be all that hard, although it will take some more effort on your part as you are dealing with three textures and not one or two. You would use a combination of Materialize and GIMP, both of which are free to do that, or their commercial equivalents for those who want to pay. Basically it would work like this:

    1. Use GIMP to determine the size of the existing textures (albedo, normal and parameters) you would need to replace and the file format (ie; tga or png).

    2. Create an albedo file (AKA Diffuse texture) to be the same size and file format. I often use .jpg texture files I have found and with GIMP converted them to the size and file format I need.

    3. Use the Materialize program to create the normal, height map, AO and other textures maps you will need from the albedo file you created and save them. See my Materialize tutorial at for more details about this process:

    https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...alize-and-GIMP

    4. Now edit them in GIMP per the instructions in my Materialize tutorial.

    5. You have now generated the new skins.

    This sounds hard but really isn't once you get used to it.

    Bob
    Last edited by MSGSapper; February 12th, 2020 at 02:00 PM.
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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