The frustating startup of trainz thread

Let me start, with an example:



I have no idea why, out of the blue, it has decided to start doing this. I was originally just trying to open content manager application. And to make it worse, I hit cancel, and tried to go straight to launching trainz, it takes even longer, doing MORE scanning.

OMG!

Paul

This is quite normal behaviour for the programme if Trainz or CMP has terminated unexpectedly (aka crashed) or after exiting Trainz you shut down the PC before TAD-Daemon and TrainzUtil had finished and spooled down. There is no point in cancelling the process as Trainz won't run until the database of assets has been verified. Take a deep breath, make a cup of tea, mow the lawn, walk the dog/wife and by the time you finish the process should have completed.

To which I would add ... have a good nights sleep while it run (in some cases)

It's a pain in the arse. Hitting "Cancel" won't cancel it.

I know of no other games that have this annoying feature.

Will we have to put up with it in T:ANE???

To be honest, there are only two situations that this will normally appear, and both are usually caused directly or indirectly by the user.

1. The system is shut down or restarted before TADDaemon has fully closed.
2. A new serial number has been added in the Trainz Options box, or the information in the Trainz Options box is no longer present.

What I would say is before blaming the software, make sure it's not something you've done that's caused it.

Shane

it is installed on a dedicated SSD and that does an optimization on a monthly basis. Windows 8.1 has this feature built in, and I check it at end of month. Could the optimization be making it think something is wrong after it does that process? I make sure trainz and the processes it has are not active when this is done.

I would double-check what kind of optimisation it is doing. It may be affecting the drive if it's not doing what's known as TRIM.

Shane

davesnow said:

It's a pain in the arse. Hitting "Cancel" won't cancel it.

I know of no other games that have this annoying feature.

Will we have to put up with it in T:ANE???

Click to expand...

Any application, game or not, that uses a database will have the same issue if it is shut down before all database activity has been completed or if another process corrupts the database in some way.

Seems like TRS2006 never had any of this waiting,. and waiting for a QDR, or Data Base Update.

I know that 09, 10, 12 are far more superior in graphics ... but there are so many more things to go wrong in these higher versions.

I wish that T:ANE would be as simple to use as TRS2006 is ... but have a much better graphics engine incorporated, into a simple to use simulator (like TRS2006 is ... CMP works flawlessly, and surveyor is so user friendly, even a child can operate it, without fouling things up).

I sometimes think that N3V doesn't want people stealing and modifying there DLC, so that is why higher versions are constantly checking thing eternally.

martinvk said:

Any application, game or not, that uses a database will have the same issue if it is shut down before all database activity has been completed or if another process corrupts the database in some way.

Click to expand...

It helps if the program puts up a message telling the user what's going on - and not to switch the machine off if it will damage the data.

cascaderailroad said:

I know that 09, 10, 12 are far more superior in graphics ... but there are so many more things to go wrong in these higher versions.

I wish that T:ANE would be as simple to use as TRS2006 is ... but have a much better graphics engine incorporated, into a simple to use simulator (like TRS2006 is ... CMP works flawlessly, and surveyor is so user friendly, even a child can operate it, without fouling things up).

Click to expand...

Agree that TRS2006 is easier to install and run, whereas TRS2010 seems a pile of steaming sh**e in comparison.

pdkoester said:

it is installed on a dedicated SSD and that does an optimization on a monthly basis. Windows 8.1 has this feature built in, and I check it at end of month. Could the optimization be making it think something is wrong after it does that process? I make sure trainz and the processes it has are not active when this is done.

Click to expand...

It might. Check that the software is set only to run when the computer is idle. If the optimize utility runs while Trainz is in use, this can cause a problem. I actually ran into an issue with DiskKeeper Professional doing this with my own system on standard platter drives. I even put in a ticket to make N3V aware of the issue not so much for them to have a fix, but more of an awareness.

Yes, I know that this is a defrag utility, and your SSDs don't need defragmentation. It's that the utility "touches" the data while the files are in use and caused TS12 and CM to have fits.

Here's the information I sent over to the Helpdesk regarding the issue.

I can confirm I have found a conflict between Condusiv Technology's Disk Keeper 12 Intelliwrite and Trainz. This is not so much to report a program with Trainz TS12, but to report a conflict with Disk Keeper as that causes Trainz to crash and a corrupted Assets.tdx.

Intelliwrite is an option in Disk Keeper that allows for continues background disk defragmenting and monitoring. With this option set, the program is supposed to keep the hard drives defragmented on the fly. With Trainz TS12, however, the option causes the Assets.tdx file to be written and rewritten constantly as Trainz is operating.

With Disk Keeper installed, TADDaemon displays the normal loading sequence, aborts and then reloads again in a loop. This process corrupts the assests.tdx file.

I was able to resolve the issue by unchecking the Intelli-write option. Using Disk Keeper as a standalone, manual defragmenting program, rather than in an automated method works fine. Using the program with the automated and Intelliwrite background monitoring turned off works fine.

John

The problem is not always the operators fault. The main reason is that N3V keep moving the goalposts with more intensive checking.
This problem has been a lot worse lately and with Tane it will be the same.
The only way to stop it would be to throw all the DLS away and start again. That can never happen so you better get used to living with it.
Cheers,
Mike

mikeaust said:

The problem is not always the operators fault. The main reason is that N3V keep moving the goalposts with more intensive checking.
This problem has been a lot worse lately and with Tane it will be the same.
The only way to stop it would be to throw all the DLS away and start again. That can never happen so you better get used to living with it.
Cheers,
Mike

Click to expand...

Mike,

It's not so much that goalpost thing, but more so how the data is handled. As has been said, this would happen no matter what program is used because this is an inherent problem with a database. Sure some databases can have multiple access, however, the main data structure isn't being touched, and this is done within the client interface to the database. These multi-tabled, multi-leveled, relational databases, are also well beyond what we would ever need, and their data storage requirements are way more than we can handle in many cases because of the multiple transaction logs and the actual database its self. We're also not even talking about the hardware required to handle this kind of operation, which are well beyond what we could ever afford.

The fact that the data is being touched outside of the framework of the program is what makes a difference. If an operation within Content Manager or TS12 is doing something with the data, TADDaemon and the programs know who is doing what and know enough to stop trying to grab the files at the same time. When this happens, the program who accessed the data first throws up a locked record message which tells the others to wait. If an outside program is doing this at the same time, it causes a conflict because the programs themselves don't know who is doing this, and can't protect the data from damage.

John

cascaderailroad said:

Seems like TRS2006 never had any of this waiting,. and waiting for a QDR, or Data Base Update.

I wish that T:ANE would be as simple to use as TRS2006 is ... but have a much better graphics engine incorporated, into a simple to use simulator (like TRS2006 is ... CMP works flawlessly, and surveyor is so user friendly, even a child can operate it, without fouling things up).

Click to expand...

One of the biggest complaint I (and others) had about TRS2006 was the more assets you had the longer the game took to start. The reorganisation of the Trainz database to the current (TS09-12) model resolved that issue. I only experience the automatic database repair problem with TS12 when it shuts down incorrectly or I have made a large number of edits and/or deletions to the database. It only happens occasionally, a small price to pay in comparison to the endless waits TRS2006 inflicted.

How quickly they forget. The rose colored glasses of the past always remember the good parts and omit the bad.

For those who are interested, there is a sort of "work around" to get the game itself to run even if CM wants to run a DB repair. :wave:

If you start CM from the bin folder within your Trainz install, you can bypass the db repair, and launch the game itself from within CM.

I was doing this for several weeks since I had no stomach for another &&^$ DB repair, which for me happens every other time I run the launcher, or it was, until my last DB repair a few days ago.

I have not noticed any errors in my content from doing this, and the small amount of unknown location assets hasn't changed for me either. CM seems to not be able to find these "unknowns" no matter how many Db repairs I run.

pware said:

One of the biggest complaint I (and others) had about TRS2006 was the more assets you had the longer the game took to start. The reorganisation of the Trainz database to the current (TS09-12) model resolved that issue. I only experience the automatic database repair problem with TS12 when it shuts down incorrectly or I have made a large number of edits and/or deletions to the database. It only happens occasionally, a small price to pay in comparison to the endless waits TRS2006 inflicted.

Click to expand...

I have been running TRS2006 since Dec 2007, and the CMP works absolutely flawlessly, and updating the TAD only takes @ 30 seconds, or less ... I have one of the largest collections of assets, running TRS2006 on a cheepo integrated graphics vista laptop ... so big of a collection that Trainz takes up 80% of my disc space ... the game starts within 10 seconds (unless it is a huge 10,000 baseboard DEM) ... I have never experienced any waits in TRS2006, ever, at all.

ricomon35 said:

For those who are interested, there is a sort of "work around" to get the game itself to run even if CM wants to run a DB repair. :wave:

If you start CM from the bin folder within your Trainz install, you can bypass the db repair, and launch the game itself from within CM.

I was doing this for several weeks since I had no stomach for another &&^$ DB repair, which for me happens every other time I run the launcher, or it was, until my last DB repair a few days ago.

I have not noticed any errors in my content from doing this, and the small amount of unknown location assets hasn't changed for me either. CM seems to not be able to find these "unknowns" no matter how many Db repairs I run.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I did that for a few times, then it started making me wait like it did when this last time it went whacky. I let it run while I was at work, but still, it is so inconvenient, and SLOW. We have big databases at work that take less time, maybe a few hours, not all day or overnight.

Do what I do, kill your internet connection with your firewall before starting Trainz. Providing there is no database repair required (previous faulty shut down etc.), your daddeamon briefly starts up, does not find an internet connection and therefore needs no validation etc. and simply goes to sleep again and disapears. Also having only bought and installed boxed versions of Trainz helps too as there is only at the first install DRM checking and validation is required. As far as I understand, boxed versions of Trainz check only ONCE for all this cr@p and as said, this is only at the first install.

One does not know if that will change with current final (T:ANE) or future boxed versions of Trainz, time will tell. You can check in Task Manager, there is NO daddeamon listed there and it will not cause you any trouble once it is asleep and gone. I usually run T:ANE CE 1.1 (or even TS12) that way and guess what, only the very odd occasion (once or twice since installing T:ANE CE) will I ever get a database repair required.

OK, every now and the one needs to install from the DLS or update an existing asset. I resume internet traffic while Trainz/T:ANE CE is loaded and I usually d/load/update via CM what I need and once done, I kill the internet connection again, wait a while until daddeamon has gone (in Task Manager) and shut down my PC.

Helps me each time.

VinnyBarb