YARN junction glitch/corruption

[nicky9499]

Hi guys,

Of late I have discovered to much horror, some road splines were misbehaving. Like so:



Upon closer inspection, it appears the road splines are not at fault, but rather the intersection pieces bending the connecting spline. This makes me cross because there are probably hundreds of such road pieces on the route. As I am creating sessions I keep discovering such a glitch every other day.

There is no apparent fix. After deleting the offending road piece and replacing it, the same behavior is observed. This is maddening because I have no idea which road piece(s) are going to corrupt my roads tomorrow. It's completely ridiculous, considering it is unmodified, on an untouched layer, which is LOCKED.

It's not an isolated issue either. Look! Here are some more I found!











As you can imagine, this incredibly frustrating, especially when I'm trying to get the route out.

I have 3 questions:

1. What is it doing that?
2. How can I fix that?
3. What must be done to stop it from doing that?


Nicholas

 

[slabay]

First of all, you shouldn't be using YARN roads anymore. They were great when Maddy made them, but there was some sort of glitch that was introduced in TS09 that causes a little hop at the intersections or something. Streadway fixed this when he updated the system with his YARNish roads.

Have you tried inserting a spline point somewhere in the middle of the road between intersections?

 

[nicky9499]

Hi Scott,

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I've tried adding an extra spline as a temporary solution. This is one such example: http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109/nicky9499/nicky9499_20130804_0375_zps57fc91c3.jpg. The spline point is less than 1 segment length and will therefore compensate for the glitch. However, the wedge still remains. It appears the attachment point has somehow been slanted. I use a mixture of YARN and YARNish roads as there are some pieces/types from the former which the latter lacks and vice versa. However as per your advice I will work towards replacing all YARN roads with YARNish. More time wasted, I guess. Thanks N3V!

 

[slabay]

Streadway's YARNish stuff added a LOT more stuff to the YARN system. He had a computer crash and lost EVERYTHING. Too bad, because he was really making a lot of new stuff. He added all of the divided highway/interstate type pieces. I've thought of doing some more stuff with it, but I've already got so much stuff piled up in my "to do" box.

 

[nicky9499]

That is a pity indeed. For now I don't think there is any other road system for Trainz that is as diverse and flexible as YARN/YARNish. Does nobody really know the real cause of these glitches?

 

[ldowns]

This problem of splines unattaching themselves from non-spline objects has been discussed quite a bit elsewhere. So far N3V doesn't seem to be doing anything about fixing it, and it wasn't corrected in SP1 or any of its hot patches. It's bad enough with roads, but especially troublesome when track disattaches itself from a level crossing so that "No path to destination' errors start showing up unexpectedly. It seems to be totally random.

--Lamont

 

[Isegrinns]

Hi.
I´m having this problem, too.
Until very recently it worked all right, then there was an update on the DLS and I grabbed it.
So yeah, I´ll see if I can delete the ones in question (I think it were only 2) and see if the older versions work right.
Nasty thing, not supposed to happen!

 

[nicky9499]

Okay, here's latest developments.

1. One of these corrupted junctions finally crashed TS12. I lost about 2 hours of work on the route.

2. I tell myself, alright, that's the last straw. I'm going to replace all YARN with YARNish.

3. Guess what? Junctions cannot be replaced! Every single one (!!!) must be manually deleted and put in again. Across a 50-mile high density route.

4. Okay, let's work on the splines first. Replace Assets work, but YARNish roads are higher than YARN roads for some stupid reason.
That means all my crossings across the entire route are ruined, along with everything else that is dependent on road height, like vehicle objects.

5. Did I mention I have to replace every single road junction manually?

In Addition
This does not appear to be something I can just shelf until a later time. For every section that I work on, more and more YARN junctions are continuously getting corrupted. I have already spotted a couple more today, god knows what other horrors I've yet to discover. Worse still, new splines refuse to stay in place. I can put in a new fence, move away, and it will have snapped somewhere else when I come back. Where to? Why, to a goddamned YARN junction of course!

----

Ok, I'm trying my best to be as calm as possible despite being exceptionally enraged. This is an absolute showstopper. I cannot continue working on the route without risking further corruption. To replace all corrupted assets would take a solid few days of work and will cause me to completely miss a planned release date and I stil have a great deal of other things to finish up like website, sessions and documentation. I am SO close to release but keep hitting one setback after another but this is by far the worst and most severe. Is there any other way to fix these cocked up assets? Isegrinns, you mentioned something about reinstalling an older version. I do recall having downloaded Content Updates recently. Can you elaborate on such a fix please?

Thank you.

Nicholas

 

[slabay]

To replace all corrupted assets would take a solid few days of work and will cause me to completely miss a planned release date and I stil have a great deal of other things to finish up like website, sessions and documentation. I am SO close to release but keep hitting one setback after another but this is by far the worst and most severe.

No, no, no, no!! This is absolutely the worst thing possible. When you set deadlines like this, you feed the gimme pigs (You SAID it would be ready, but it's not, whywhywhywhywhywhy!!! I wannit I wannit I wannit!! (with stomping feet)) and you rush yourself to hit a date that means nothing. Take your time (frustrating though it may be), fix everything right, and it will be done whenever it is done. The route looks good! Good things come to those who wait!

 

[Isegrinns]

Yeah, sure.
You go to your Content Manager, look for the Yarn´s and the crossing in particular and delete the newest version. Done!
(I just took a look, works fine on my end, so dont give up because of that bowine dropping!)

 

[JEB114]

Do not use the undo button. In fact disable it in the surveyor tab. I would get broken splines all the time until I got out of the undo button habit. The yarn junctions are fine and it is not a sp1 problem. There was a warning a few years back about the undo button, DO NOT USE. I have not had a broken spline in a couple of years since I disabled the button.

 

[nicky9499]

Hi Scott,

I understand the value of not rushing. However, time after time such unnecessary time sinks keep occurring, it becomes really frustrating and annoying. I have everything planned out; today I'm going to do this, tomorrow I'm going to finish that. Therefore, I have goals to achieve each target. The problem are these stupid glitches/bugs/problems which mess everything up and I've to spend time fixing or redoing stuff which I've already done. These drive me insane.

JEB, thank you for your input. I am well aware of the undo bug, it has bothered users as early as TRS06. The situation is much better and predictable in TS12. Irregardless, the issue persists and it says alot about a company who refuses to fix a well-known bug after more than 7 years. If this was some small, tucked-away-and-little-used feature we could let that slide, but UNDO is a critical feature of ANY decent software. Even MS PAINT has proper undo in later versions! Telling users to not use the undo feature is borderline ridiculous. It is the real world equivalent of buying a car, finding some problem with the brakes, and instead of fixing it the manufacturer says "oh, just don't use the brakes you'll be fine". Logic much?


Hi Isegrinns,

Thank you for your suggestion. I've just followed your instruction to delete the latest version. For example:

YARN T-Intersection L2 -3Si +2Sh-1Sh,<kuid2:124017:26015:3>

The following asset (and related ones such as 26012) all had their version 3's deleted. The icons now show correspondingly a "DLS" location instead of "local" and the version 2's show "Update Available" instead of "Obsolete". However, once in Surveyor, the objects are not replaced by the older versions and are instead completely missing. Am I doing something wrong here?

Nicholas

 

[JCitron]

Re: The Undo bug... Try back in TRS2004 SP4 as well!

I rarely use the Undo function for that reason and have gotten pretty adept at not needing it too.

I feel for you on this issue, Nicky. Hopefully you can resolve it. I too have run into this, but not recently and not with SP1.

John

 

[Isegrinns]

Do you have the older versions installed?
I checked on an older route I havent touched in ages and it worked alright.
Maybe once you placed the new ones on a route, all respective crossings get the new ones kuid and hence are missing.

No SP1 here, JCitron.

 

[JCitron]

Do you have the older versions installed?
I checked on an older route I havent touched in ages and it worked alright.
Maybe once you placed the new ones on a route, all respective crossings get the new ones kuid and hence are missing.

No SP1 here, JCitron.

I've had no problems with these updates either. I still think, and my warm and fuzzy feelings are telling me it's the undo's that are doing it.

John

 

[nicky9499]

This issue happened on my main TS12 49922.

Isegrinns,
I do have the older version 2's. As previously mentioned deleting the v3's make the junctions disappear in the route - they are not automatically reverted to the older versions. In order to prevent such future occurrence due to automated Content Updates on both users' and my end, I have decided to clone the v2's to freeze them in time so that further "updates" to these can uh... go suck it. They have a missing texture.txt error or something and build number warning but they work in-game so who cares.

I spent two hours just now swapping out the affected junctions. Fortunately, only 3 type of junctions has to be replaced. It was still a big pain in the arse though, as you can see below. Even after the junctions were gone, the confounded splines stayed like a villain who just refuses to die.




The undo function was alright. TS12 will only crash under a specific set of circumstances - 1) if you execute an undo 2) which calls for a movement or re creation of an object with spline 3) that has been glitched or corrupted 4) prior to the undo. In this case, the junctions were corrupted and I tried to move them. Here's two more horror photos of the glitch. I am glad to leave this debacle behind and I hope the rest of the YARN junctions behave nicely.

 

[mtldrm38]

I don't know if this helps anyone but I figured out how to fix the l2 -3 +3 09sp4 yarnish....I am posting the configuration I found that re adds the point for the missing section....hope this helps? I noticed a few others acting the same way also....

attached-track
{
road0
{
track <kuid2:506208:100093:1>
useadjoiningtracktype 0

vertices
{
0 "a.road0a_x"
1 "a.road0b_x"
2 "a.road0e_x"
3 "a.road0f_x"
}
}

road1
{
track <kuid2:506208:100093:1>
useadjoiningtracktype 0

vertices
{
0 "a.road1a_x"
1 "a.road1b_x"
2 "a.road0d_x"
3 "a.road0e_x"
}
}
}

 

[wawasoo]

l2 -3 +3 09sp4 yarnish. What Kuid? Or all l2 -3 +3 09sp4's

 

[mtldrm38]

that's the only one I fiddled with but noticed a couple others acting the same way now., don't know why? If the original creator doesn't update em properly I m gonna abandon using em at all, because it doesn't help the next guy that dl s a route and runs into the same problem....

 

[wawasoo]

I got them all fixed; The problem started with the Origional Yarn Asset