Will TLR or HD Terrain ever make it to a retail release?

[frogpipe]

Will TLR (Trainz Living Railroad) or HD Terrain ever make it to a retail release?

 

[coble12]

Will TLR (Trainz Living Railroad) or HD Terrain ever make it to a retail release?

Yes, but not the current release.

 

[wreeder]

Technically, the language N3V uses is "they may choose to release new features in retail releases at some point". Typical lawyer speak for "if it makes us more money".

 

[rwk]

So they hold back some features for Plus users who pay a subscription fee every year to use it. And those of us who refuse to pay a fee every year to use a version of Trainz which isn't much different than the retail version have to do without those features until some point in the future when they are included in a future retail release.

 

[wreeder]

Yes

 

[dangavel]

Unless they could make HD FAR less of a major performance hit and such gigantic file sizes, in the trainz environment, I cant see it ever being a huge plus. my 12gb 4070 card struggles with my 80 mile route, no way could it ever manage to cope with HD on anything other then a small model railroad.

 

[pware]

So they hold back some features for Plus users who pay a subscription fee every year to use it. And those of us who refuse to pay a fee every year to use a version of Trainz which isn't much different than the retail version have to do without those features until some point in the future when they are included in a future retail release.

And the problem people have with that is?

From the few comments that N3V have made on this matter it is clear that subscribers are paying for the new features that non-subscribers will eventually enjoy. That is how the real world works.

 

[H222]

Will TLR (Trainz Living Railroad) or HD Terrain ever make it to a retail release?

Has there actually been a game released since those features actually entered the game? Remembering that TLR itself is still a beta version?

 

[JCitron]

Has there actually been a game released since those features actually entered the game? Remembering that TLR itself is still a beta version?

UDS comes to mind. We saw that initially in TRS-Plus before it migrated over to the other versions. Prior to the Plus versions, there was the Trainz Dev group. We tested many things that eventually made it into Trainz versions including game-controller support, adding and changing consists in Driver via the train consists menu. That appeared in T:ANE SP1 or SP2 shortly afterwards. We also tested Multiplayer Surveyor, and many more things that we use today.

 

[pware]

Has there actually been a game released since those features actually entered the game?

Surveyor 2.0 was initially a Trainz Plus subscriber only feature and is now in TRS22.

Tony has stated that because of the success of the subscription system N3V were able to employ additional programmers and to fast track (pardon the pun) projects that were only in the concept stage.

Like many products and services, you can get the "stock standard" version or pay extra to get the "deluxe version" with extra features. There was a time when aircon was only included as standard in the more expensive models of cars. Drivers of cheaper models only had the option of winding down their windows.

Subscriber and non-subscriber versions of a product are another example of the same principle. An annual subscription for a product that is released as a new version every few years is not for everyone and no-one is being forced to get a subscription but there are plenty of users, such as myself, who are happy to do it for a variety of reasons. The "extras" that come with a subscription are a powerful incentive to take it up. Those who are opposed to subscriptions, or to subscribers getting extra features, are effectively saying that we are not allowed to have the choice.

 

[amigacooke]

Those who are opposed to subscriptions, or to subscribers getting extra features, are effectively saying that we are not allowed to have the choice.

The flip side of that is that those who use Trainz enough to make a subscription worthwhile are saying that the retail version should never be feature equivalent and those who prefer that version should always be denied the choice of having the latest features.

 

[frogpipe]

Just for context, my question was framed off the assumption that by now TLR and HDT were mature features.

I also do not think the retail copy should have contemporaneous feature parity with the subscription copy. I simply recall the statement that the subscription version's features would, in an unspecified time frame, move to the retail version.

Since that was years ago. I posed the question in the OP above.

 

[pware]

are saying that the retail version should never be feature equivalent

Nor should it be, otherwise what is the point of paying extra?

those who prefer that [retail non-subscription] version should always be denied the choice of having the latest features

They are not being denied a choice. They can choose to take up a subscription, or not - where is that a denial of choice?

If I choose to fly economy should I get the same seats, meals and service as those who choose business class?

 

[dangavel]

Tony has stated that because of the success of the subscription system N3V were able to employ additional programmers and to fast track (pardon the pun) projects that were only in the concept stage.

hmm, I would much rather that they had put at least ONE person to fix up the over 40,000 faulty assets that the CRG are supposed to fix ,at the present rate , since we've had some folks who used to be in that group who have sadly died, hardly anyone is working to do this , it will NEVER be caught up with unless NV3 put an employee to fix some of the more essential script items, but I am assuming that they would rather work on new features that most of us will never be fully able to utilize unless we upgrade to top end graphics cards .I suppose this makes some sort of economic sense, but even then, does anyone want to work with routes that are over one gb as a cdp ? I know they want to entice new users with new features, but at the same time, I am sure they put off a hell of lot of users who simply cant get the app to work very well.

You have to admit that there are MANY hurdles placed in front of new users if they want to explore routes other then built ins and even then some of those present issues to the user such as changed built in items from build to build , one of which rendered my entire route useless yesterday until I replaced it, jvc shrub spline E build 2. it rendered half the routes boards black or blue and it took two hours removing it and then clicking on all the black boards with the height tool to restore them , entire app went down to about 2 fps , had a job to save it and fix it as it was so slow, this is about the fourth time its occurred, all due to very faulty assets whiCH have had fixes but the old versions which are still on the DLS can kill routes if used. Mostly grass assets, but a lot were my old sage assets that presented no problems in earlier builds but cooked trs 2022. Be VERY wary of jvc large grass assets ,especiall the 340 series , use the " fixed" versions by other users if you can.

 

[pware]

Yes, there are a lot of faulty assets.

As has often been stated here perhaps the best option would have been to only allow a small number of "proven" and qualified creators upload assets to the DLS. Instead we have had a free-for-all where every Tom, Dorothy and Harriet is allowed to contribute no matter how little skill or knowledge they have.

That free-for-all has built a community where individual users can feel that they belong. The downside, as mentioned, is that not all assets are worthy.

I doubt very much that putting a single programmer on the task would make much of a dent.

Tightening the standards for uploads is one solution but, I suspect, would not be a popular one.

 

[Forester1]

Is there a way to look into joining the CRG? I know some really basic stuff like using Images2TGA and maybe substituting dependencies, but I would probably have to learn things like using AssetX and The Image Editor properly. Maybe there are wikis? I would like to do something to help the cause and maybe take some load off the N3V guys.

 

[grazlash]

The flip side of that is that those who use Trainz enough to make a subscription worthwhile are saying that the retail version should never be feature equivalent and those who prefer that version should always be denied the choice of having the latest features.

The version you choose to pay for has the latest features available to that version.
Vanilla, Platinum, Plus or Gold, you get what you pay for.

 

[amigacooke]

The version you choose to pay for has the latest features available to that version.
Vanilla, Platinum, Plus or Gold, you get what you pay for.

As you’re aware that wasn’t the model that supported Trainz for the vast majority of its long life. Until the subscription model came along, everyone had the opportunity to get the same feature set for the same price.

 

[pware]

Until the subscription model came along, everyone had the opportunity to get the same feature set for the same price.

Up to TRS19 that was true. TRS19 came in two "flavours", TRS19 "standard" and TRS19PE which had extra features. You could also buy Gold and Silver classes which had a lot of DLC thrown in for less than the total purchase price of the individual items.

As you’re aware that wasn’t the model that supported Trainz for the vast majority of its long life.

True, but as N3V said when they introduced the subscription model, the problem with the retail release models was that they generated a lot of income in the first year of their release and then that dropped off during the 2nd and 3rd years. They needed a steady income stream if they were going to develop the franchise with better graphics, better performance, new features, etc, etc. That was just not possible to the same extent with the "stop start" retail release model.

 

[JCitron]

The flip side of that is that those who use Trainz enough to make a subscription worthwhile are saying that the retail version should never be feature equivalent and those who prefer that version should always be denied the choice of having the latest features.

I disagree. The features should be there just the same, but such things as additional "insider perks", extra content, and other goodies should be available to the subscribers.