Why upload with things missing ?

[sniper297]

Smoke texture. Replace with Smoke,<kuid:-1:6330> and it all works.

Pretty much underlines the original poster's point, these things do need to be tested better, and N3V really SHOULD have created an automatic content FIXER before even starting on the error checker - what use is the error checker if the end user has no idea what to do about the error message? "Unknown Location: <kuid:311512:6002>" doesn't tell me anything, I open the asset in content creator to find out that 311512:6002 is a smoke texture, the error checker couldn't have been designed to find that out on its own and suggest a replacement?

 

[clam1952]

TC3 was produced the same guys who did S&C. Both have builtins not on the DLS.

Steam3 311512:6002 is builtin to TC3 and Settle and Carlisle just checked both, not in 2009 or 2010 and not on the DLS, there is another steam3 on the DLS but not the same item.
Other TC3 builtins not on the DLS in TC3, as with Settle & Carlisle are all the assets titled S&C ***** example kuid2:35412:28187:1

On the release of TS12 it was stated by WindWalkr or someone from N3V that 2010 builtins would be made available for TS12 users but not routes or Loco's etc. Nothing about any other versions, therefore it follows anything not builtin to 2010 wouldn't have been uploaded and a few things seemingly got missed anyway. It was never said that builtins from DLC or add-ons would be added, seems to be yet another unfounded myth.

 

[clam1952]

I'm guessing here that all the checker is doing is parsing the config for kuids in the kuid table, not reading text. If something is missing an email is despatched to the creator of the missing kuid requesting it is uploaded, problem there is:
1. The Mail server seems to be random on who actually receives emails from N3V.
2. The creator may not be interested, can't be bothered, doesn't want his item on the DLS, no longer has Trainz or the item to upload or may not even be with us any longer.

As I see it, the solution is to swap the email for reject the item but that won't go down well with those who for what ever reason use non DLS items, catch 22 situation I suspect, dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

 

[Vern]

TC3 and S&C2009 were specifically excluded when N3V did the big amalgamation into TS2010, so it's unlikely the assets and rolling stock made it on the DLS.

With the routes I create, I try and use only built in or DLS items but with both Murchison 2 and the aforementioned S&C 2009 integrated into my install it is still likely an item or two might slip through, though hopefully nothing vital (like the track...). Perhaps N3V could at least consider putting the Murchison and S&C 2009 assets (including fixed versions of the rolling stock) on the DLS at some point.

 

[chrisaw]

I'm afraid my point is being missed i.e. it might not be the creators fault that dependencies are missing.
I uploaded the LN using built ins from the version I made it for, so how is it my fault if users of later versions download it and have bits missing?

Chris.

 

[pcas1986]

I have some sympathy for the OP of this thread because it would be frustrating to spend some time downloading an asset and then finding bits missing. But I also have sympathy for the creator because in his/her system those missing assets can be shown in Content Manager as "built in". Since causing such a problem recently with one of my locos, I now know a little more about the DLS and the problems with S&C and others.

Checking dependencies for locos and rolling stock is probably not too difficult but checking for a route would be very arduous I imagine.

In an earlier post in this thread I suggested a tool to validate that dependencies can be found on the DLS. After looking at TrainzUtil options it may be possible to create a batch file to perform such a task. This tool could be added to AssetX so I will have a look at it.

 

[clam1952]

I'm afraid my point is being missed i.e. it might not be the creators fault that dependencies are missing.
I uploaded the LN using built ins from the version I made it for, so how is it my fault if users of later versions download it and have bits missing?

Chris.

In the case of your LN it isn't as that to me being 2.8 is clearly for TC3. Nicely done by the way.
Things have been confused though by people creating old style assets, no longer able to use any build lower than 2.8 so many assumed that 2.8 means any version above, not taking into consideration that TC3 was an additional payware route not a normal Trainz version and that people do actually make stuff for TC3. Some of this 2.8 stuff doesn't work in TC3 anyway just to add to the confusion.

 

[RRSignal]

Just a suggestion here: I build my routes in a separate "build" installation which has no addons or content from third-party websites; just DLS content that can be downloaded through CMP. I did this specifically to avoid this kind of problem. I'm mentioning this here because it seems most folks don't realize that you can HAVE more than one Trainz installation on your computer. Sure, it uses more disk space, but it also runs much faster than the "giant" Trainz installations many if not most Trainzers have.

 

[falcon500]

Some people who make things are not doing a good job. They can create more headaches than the program does on its own. The new customer has a significant learning curve when it comes to the DLS. N3V could end up loosing new customers who simply do not want to spend time hunting stuff that SHOULD NOT be missing. I have begun to take that position. I do not like to hunt stuff since that is NOT why I bought the program. I went through that for awhile but now draw the line. I have a simple criteria that a missing dependency, whose source is not obvious, gets tossed. Another criteria, that works well for me, is that I do not download anything that is less than a certain file size depending upon what it is. A Barrel can be 100kb and look real good. A house that is that size looks like something from a cartoon show. I end up with buildings that are over 1mb in all cases. This insures two things. I get a close to reality asset and the author is usually more dedicated and provides all the goodies in her/his package. Now if re-skinning people would only take the time to properly paint an engine and its bogies that would add to my collection. But most look like toy trains with no detail/textured painting so they get tossed as well.

Content creators also have a significant learning curve too, perhaps you should try it sometime and see what it takes to make the free items on the DLS. The first lot of buildings I made could well be described as cartoonish. Since then I've learned a lot about texturing and detailing while keeping the poly count to a reasonable level. I often wonder just how much detail is needed, I once downloaded a Sears house with detail that could only be seen by zooming close and tilting the camera up, not something one would normally do. There may be some rubbish on the DLS, but there are those all too ready to sit back and criticise content creators who spend their free time making all the free stuff.

 

[sniper297]

I do my work in a regular copy, but test in a virgin copy by opening the alternate CM, location = local built in = false, select all delete all. Then I change back to the regular copy, save to CDP, and import the CDP into the testing copy. That doesn't help the guys making TC3 stuff, especially if they have no later version to test with. Some of this IS on N3V;

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?81860-Well-that-was-a-bust

I bought 2009 thinking it would run smoother than 2010 since the required system specs were a lot lower, but once you get it up to SP4 the minimum specs are a flaming lie. And you can't NOT update to SP4, since SP3 and earlier have too many bugs to work at all. It was after getting 2009 that I found the version labels on the DLS are a flaming lie too, the cars with the attachments all over the place in 2009 SP3 and earlier are just listed as 2009, not 2009 SP4. The route was listed as 2009 SP4/2010, since allegedly those are the same, but downloaded into 2009 SP4 it crashed every time. I spent two weeks getting it to work in 2004 SP4, then rewrote the sessions from scratch since those crashed too, so obviously they didn't do much testing to see if a route or session created in 2010 would actually WORK in 2009 SP4 before they added that label.

What bugs me is the lack of bug reports, Chicago Metro 1 had 2000 downloads and not a single one of those was a 2009 SP4 user?! Or did all the 2009 SP4 users who downloaded it get the same problems I did, but failed to provide feedback because they were scared of the kind of reception the original poster here got? We really need feedback, so let's not jump all over the people who actually do provide it.

 

[pcas1986]

Just a suggestion here: I build my routes in a separate "build" installation which has no addons or content from third-party websites; just DLS content that can be downloaded through CMP. I did this specifically to avoid this kind of problem. I'm mentioning this here because it seems most folks don't realize that you can HAVE more than one Trainz installation on your computer. Sure, it uses more disk space, but it also runs much faster than the "giant" Trainz installations many if not most Trainzers have.

I think I might do this but make my base level TS10 for content I create. I have TS10 installed already but it is probably "contaminated" with DLC stuff so maybe I'll just blow it away and re-install.

 

[NickieFoenshauge]

- deleted -

 

[pcas1986]

The problem I had was for some of Pikkabird's hoses and couplers that had their kuids bumped by several version numbers for S&C. The solution was to just use the base kuid and not the kuid2 version and just let CM sort it out.

ps. I tried the TrainzUtil asset checker and it does advise if the kuid is on the DLS or not. The trick now would be to manufacture a script/batch file to process the kuid table in a config.txt and test each referenced kuid. That I could do but perhaps later.

 

[dzien50]

Hi

I have to say that I agree with most of what sniper297 says, he brings intelligent and informed commentsto the table. I started this thread because one of the most basic and important human traits is to ask " why " its what drives us forward, I did not expect to get " hit over the head " for daring to question a creator !!

I did say upfront how much I admired all the creators but that does not mean they cannot be questioned, my tech knowledge I would think is in the bottom 1% for example I have no idea about Gmax, blenders or microdems etc, Its probably selfish but I would just like things to be simple and easy, I have not a clue how my DVD machine works but I know when I press record it will record and I suppose that what I was looking for with trainz, ie see an item on the DLS click to download and it does and its complete and works.

Surely everyone would like this to be a fact and not a dream ! so all I was asking ( out of ignorance ) is why can't this be the case ? as sniper says working together, being honest enough to raise issues is the best way forward.

I'm sure there is enough knowledge amongst the community to at least have a go at sorting this problem out.

Cheers
PJ