Why I'm getting disallusioned with Trainz.

[cressjl]

The question to ask, which is relevant to the topic of this thread, is "Does TANE Content Manager mark DLS content that is a higher build than your installed version as 'Not available for this version' and automatically select a version that is suitable?" The need for that functionality might not have been obvious in the past, but with the rate at which hardware requirements are climbing it is clearly very relevant now.

Well, I wouldn't think that N3V would owe such functionality to users of back-level versions of their software, especially if they have clearly indicated the end-of-life for all versions prior to a certain level.

Having said that, it would be nice if such functionality existed, perhaps, but isn't that what the version level is supposed to be for in the first place?

What I find confusing is that there is no clear mapping of version level to Trainz version level on the DLS (or I haven't noticed it). This needs to be clearly indicated. If it were, I believe that a whole lot of anxiety in the user community would evaporate.

Has anyone tossed out the idea of having two DLS locations: one for legacy versions, and one for the latest? This would only work for future versions of Trainz, but would allow promotion from the archive to latest DLS for all assets that meet the latest standards. I am sure there would be much hand-wringing over whether N3V might drop the legacy DLS altogether, but I wouldn't think that this would ever happen...

 

[WindWalkr]

What I find confusing is that there is no clear mapping of version level to Trainz version level on the DLS (or I haven't noticed it).

If I understand your question correctly, this should help.

chris

 

[whitepass]

I started making content back in Trainz build 1.1, back then we did not know a lot that we should have. The error checking back then would read the config.txt from the top down to the bottom but it would stop at an error so if the content could work at that point it would, leaving a working content with errors in it and no way to know that.

That is why a lot of thing had to be fixed.

 

[BuilderBob]

Well, I wouldn't think that N3V would owe such functionality to users of back-level versions of their software, especially if they have clearly indicated the end-of-life for all versions prior to a certain level.

TS12 is a supported version that needs this functionality. While it is unlikely that it will be updated, the possibility that multiple supported versions, with different maximum build numbers, will exist in the future is now obvious, and should be allowed for. Just based on the volume of posts appearing in the forums it seems likely that the facility would be worthwhile in terms of reduced support calls.

 

[pcas1986]

.....

Has anyone tossed out the idea of having two DLS locations: one for legacy versions, and one for the latest? This would only work for future versions of Trainz, but would allow promotion from the archive to latest DLS for all assets that meet the latest standards. I am sure there would be much hand-wringing over whether N3V might drop the legacy DLS altogether, but I wouldn't think that this would ever happen...

It has been mentioned in the forums a few times but I don't think it practical.

1. Someone would have to pay for it and N3V already provide a service to download unsupported content.
2. Later versions of Trainz automatically download dependencies and it seems to me that TANE does it better than TS12. The dependency path would be more complex with another database to check.
3. Yet another source of assets would only confuse new users.

Getting back to Stationmistresses' original complaints: It might be useful if we had a special forum location where users can request the Content Repair Group have a look at particular broken assets and ask for advice on possible repair. I have some thoughts on this suggestion but I thought I would wait and see what others might think.

 

[SailorDan]

Getting back to Stationmistresses' original complaints: It might be useful if we had a special forum location where users can request the Content Repair Group have a look at particular broken assets and ask for advice on possible repair. I have some thoughts on this suggestion but I thought I would wait and see what others might think.

Why restrict it to the CRG? We need a forum area where any content creator can indicate that they are happy for others to repair their content (either all, or specific items) to a newer build number that can be uploaded.

The CRG would only be involved if the original creator didn't want to review and upload the items, but was OK to let others do that. But I would expect that usually the original creator would want to at least look at what has been done and then upload it themselves.

 

[pcas1986]

Why restrict it to the CRG? We need a forum area where any content creator can indicate that they are happy for others to repair their content (either all, or specific items) to a newer build number that can be uploaded.

Don't have any issues with that but, unless the CRG can get those assets on the faulty list, they cannot be fixed. Note that the CRG does have a process for that but it is slow.

The CRG would only be involved if the original creator didn't want to review and upload the items, but was OK to let others do that. But I would expect that usually the original creator would want to at least look at what has been done and then upload it themselves.

I wish it were that simple! Some CCS have left Trainz, some are not interested in fixing old content, and some are very happy to let the the CRG fix their content. Sometimes it is like dancing on eggshells.

 

[stationmistress]

I saw getting up-to-date about built-ins having a new kuid:-25 for assets. The problem with that as I've found, moving routes and sessions around to higher build nos from the 2009 base to check that if they can find on the DLS any missing assets. Obviously there will be some, like home-made or on other websites. The problem is that the updated Auran assets are the same build-no, 2.9 and obsolete the built-in ones. If I let these download I get a nasty lot of red icons in content manager. I then have to root around to find out which ones are the faulty ones by earler versions standards. Off the top off my head, QR2100 enginesound is one of them. So many locos rely on this asset. The only way to clear these errors is delete and do an EDR. This clears up the obvious problem. It doesn't stop there though.

Once a session is started, that's another kettle of fish. Rules are the problem this time. What used to work now has updated scripts, etc. All that's presented when clicked on, is an HTML with a title and not much else. Even the list icon has changed. to almost a black square. Again the cure is to remember the particular rules, exit game and delete them. This resets everything back to normal.

I found that it's very hit-and-miss that way assets work. i.e. AJS invisible stations. I have loaded routes with these included only to find out once the route is loaded they've all gone banana shaped and cannot be used because of script errors. Again removal of the updates restores everything. On other occasions, I've downloaded the updates and never even noticed apart from a different colour for Stn nos. Obviously the higher the Trainz version the less likely this will happen.

In the latest version of T:ANE, for me. I have two routes using the same assets. One works properly, the other doesn't. They are totally different even though they are mine. The one from the DLS is faulty. The other imported from my HD does. They are both 3.1 built in 2009. I can even import from my HD the 'faulty route and session'. I cleared out the non-working assets after getting around the warning about it being on the DLS already and loaded certain rules. I still have some problems.

 

[SailorDan]

The problem is that the updated Auran assets are the same build-no, 2.9 and obsolete the built-in ones. If I let these download I get a nasty lot of red icons in content manager.

If assets with a '-' user ID are being uploaded at build 2.9 and are faulty in TS2009, that's an error and must be reported to the Helpdesk. It has been happening in TS12 (at build 3.5) but this is the first comment indicating it might be happening at the lower build numbers.

An updated asset might not work in earlier versions, but it must have the build number updated to the lowest build number at which it works properly. Leaving the build number as it was, and making the asset unusable in the Trainz versions that it was originally built for is unacceptable and has to be fixed.

 

[SailorDan]

Don't have any issues with that but, unless the CRG can get those assets on the faulty list, they cannot be fixed. Note that the CRG does have a process for that but it is slow.

You missed the point. Content creators who indicate that they would like their assets upgraded will have the asset sent to them for final QA before they upload it under their own (the original) user ID. CRG is not involved.

 

[pcas1986]

The CRG cannot update Auran/N3V assets but we have been active in alerting N3V to issues with those assets. We have a very good relationship with N3V and it works! But nothing is perfect.

Rules, and by inference, scripts, are problematic as some of the problems are not apparent until run-time. i.e. They may pass validation. Based on recent information from N3V, that may change. Again, this will take time.

I remain convinced we need a special forum to deal with these issues - i.e. an interface between the wider community and the CRG.

 

[stationmistress]

If assets with a '-' user ID are being uploaded at build 2.9 and are faulty in TS2009, that's an error and must be reported to the Helpdesk. It has been happening in TS12 (at build 3.5) but this is the first comment indicating it might be happening at the lower build numbers.

An updated asset might not work in earlier versions, but it must have the build number updated to the lowest build number at which it works properly. Leaving the build number as it was, and making the asset unusable in the Trainz versions that it was originally built for is unacceptable and has to be fixed.

That's a laugh. Sorry, but N3V have stated time and time again that any build no. lower than the current one is longer catered for.

The asset I remember was QR2100 sound file. Built-in as Kuid -12:2100 build 1.3. It was then updated as -25:175. Two lines were added for later than build 2.9 compatibilty. Engine ramp up / down. (Error. Not recognised) Of course by then 2009 was old-hat and never a version it was loaded into before release.

 

[SailorDan]

The asset I remember was QR2100 sound file. Built-in as Kuid -12:2100 build 1.3. It was then updated as -25:175. Two lines were added for later than build 2.9 compatibilty. Engine ramp up / down. (Error. Not recognised) Of course by then 2009 was old-hat and never a version it was loaded into before release.

That's not what I'm talking about. The asset was not downloaded - it was delivered in an upgrade - and in any case it's ancient history.

The current issue, which can be addressed, is N3V uploading assets to the DLS that have been upgraded to newer standards without having their build numbers also updated to the build that fully supports that standard. That's what I though you were talking about: "The problem is that the updated Auran assets are the same build-no, 2.9 and obsolete the built-in ones. If I let these download I get a nasty lot of red icons in content manager." If you have examples of this happening since it started in about May of this year, then report it and it will be fixed.

 

[stationmistress]

I've checked very carefully and this is one of some assets that are available on the DLS for download. The build no is 1.3. Yes, I agree that these assets are built-in later versions and as such work. Now both the original -12:2100 and the update are available for download with the older one marked as obsolete.