Why are these assets not packaged in TRS22?

[JCitron]

So I have heard. In my very few attempts at using Discord I found it chaotic and confusing. In contrast to these forums which have more structure and some semblance of logic to them.

I belong to a few "servers" on Discord. It's not Discord itself and it's how the servers are managed.

Then there's N3V's chaotic mess. These are the youngsters that we've told to grow up and put their big boy pants on when on the forums here. The server is moderated, but it must be awfully stressful and would be in my opinion, be like herding chickens.

The various conversations are the same repeated over and over because no one reads what someone else has posted. When I attempted to do some support on Discord, I was met with some rude responses telling me I dint know what I was talking about. Another time I made the fatal mistake of posting a response or two to some "older" threads that were a few days old which was met with some more rude responses. Then there were other threads where the original poster ignored what I posted and posted the same question again a bit later!

After that, I gave up. If this is what N3V wants, they can keep it.

 

[N3VSupport]

Hi All
To confirm, the Trainz Plus Standard or Gold exclusive DLC packs aren't available for purchase, they are exclusive to the memberships only. The Trainz Store requires us to list a price in them, and listing it as 'free' is inaccurate to most people as well (instead the store very clearly states the DLC is exclusive to the relevant subscription). Due to the way that the Content Store tool was originally designed, it does require the DLC pack to also be present in the Trainz Store to display it's name, description, and preview image correctly.

The creators of DLC packs do get paid for the use of their content in subscription versions (the TCCP website does detail the way this is calculated, so creators can be aware of how it works with their content), and hence the set price also ensure that the calculations for paying content creators for the use of their DLC packs through gold subscriptions can be done correctly; as the exclusive content goes through the same system, this ensures that it is done fairly for all creators.

In regards to the discord server; we do have moderators monitoring this. However it is also, simply put, a discussion area. Sometimes discussions become heated; and sometimes discussions continue with 'breaks', since messages can be replied to/quoted at any time. If another user feels they have something to add to a discussion, they will do so; so long as they don't break the rules then the mods generally won't need to step in. Dissenting opinions may result in ongoing discussions, as that's generally how discussions work.

We do understand that a few people may not be a fan of the subscription exclusive DLC packs, but at the end of the day these are developed for these subscriptions (or potentially future builtin use, or may be included in platinum editions later on), and the development is supported by the subscriptions; so the other option would be that we simply don't produce them, and those who have subscribed would instead not be able to access that content.

Regards

 

[wreeder]

The clue is in the name.
dis·cord
[ˈdiˌskôrd]
noun

1. disagreement between people:

 

[Smileyman]

Necro an old thread!

An updated HST 125 with all the bells and whistles?
Take my £25 N3V! Take it now!!

I have to subscribe first, and then I can buy it, but if I stop subscribing I lose the HST set and my £25?
Err, nah, you're alright thanks.

Regards,
Smiley (a consumer).

 

[HPL]

You can't even buy it (see the store description here).

 

[Smileyman]

You can't even buy it (see the store description here).

I know.
That's the whole point of what I was saying.
(Maybe read my post again?)

I looked at the store earlier, and there's £64 worth of rolling stock that I would buy right now if it was available (it's either locked behind subscription or TRS22 only, and I'm using TRS2019), and another £60+ that I would normally buy for TRS2019, but won't because of the stuff that I really want being locked behind the subscription.

It's a very strange business model, but obviously there's enough people 'locked in' because of the payware they've already bought, which enables N3V to keep going.

You know, I subscribe to a few things, like we all do, but even though I can afford it, I tend to rather not.
It's just not something I like.
But I'll tell you this.
I would be more likely to subscribe to Trainz Plus if all the DLC was available to buy.
And because some of it is TRS2022 only, I'd almost certainly buy that to be able to use them.

I wouldn't need 'rewards'.
I would see it as a way to repay or support the company (I've done that in the past, buying versions of Trainz for other people for instance), and besides, the reward you get for subscribing is getting features early and discounts, and possibly N3V's ear on some things.

Still, it's their house.

How long has that HST been available now?

Wait!
Didn't I see a BR Class 47 on there the other day?
If I did, you can add that to what I'd buy right now.

Never mind.
I'll treat the missus instead.

 

[Forester1]

I would be more likely to subscribe to Trainz Plus if all the DLC was available to buy.

I was under the impression that with Trainz Plus pretty much everything is available to purchase? Possibly with a discount? Or is that only for Gold?

 

[jaredvazquez012]

I was under the impression that with Trainz Plus pretty much everything is available to purchase? Possibly with a discount? Or is that only for Gold?

If I understand this page correctly, Trainz Plus Gold does give you full access to DLC content. Trainz Plus Standard only gives you HD Terrain and Multiplayer Surveyor alongside being the first try new content and features.

 

[Smileyman]

I was under the impression that with Trainz Plus pretty much everything is available to purchase? Possibly with a discount? Or is that only for Gold?

@Forester1 , I probably could have made that line clearer.
What I was trying to say was I would be more likely to subscribe to Trainz Plus if all the DLC was available to buy without having to subscribe.

Basically, I would be impressed that N3V had the sense to make ALL DLC available to ALL for sale, and subscribing got you other benefits, like free DLS, etc.

To put it in even simpler terms:
Locking Locos and Rolling Stock behind a subscription paywall puts me off subscribing 100%, even though I can afford it and really would like that 125.

Letting everyone have the choice of buying quality content regardless, and making subscribing a completely separate choice, would probably make me a subscriber because I would think the company was worth it and deserve it.

Unfortunately, as the community dwindles more, they're going to have to ask for more money from the few to keep it going.
I don't see it as sustainable.
Maybe I'm wrong, and they'll turn it around and Trainz will become as popular as the other sims.
If that happens, their business model isn't going to change because they'll feel validated for their methods.
If only more people shopped ethically.

The UK Trainz scene has almost disappeared. It was the first thing I noticed when I came back.
I would love to see a group of people get together and create UK locos and rolling stock, spreading the time of creating between a large group of people, but as has seemed to happen in the past, at some point the people in the project want remuneration, and then N3V offer them in, and we're where we are right now.

Anyway, I'm just going to have be resigned to the fact that Trainz 2019 is the end point for me, and that's not a bad thing.
It's easily the best version I've played in the 20+ years that I've been using it, and I don't need the extra bells and whistles of any future versions that require me to pay monthly for the rest of my days just to be able to use DLC content that I've paid good money for.

Be happy with what you've got, and don't throw good money after bad!
Take that whichever way you want.

 

[pware]

If I understand this page correctly, Trainz Plus Gold does give you full access to DLC content. Trainz Plus Standard only gives you HD Terrain and Multiplayer Surveyor alongside being the first try new content and features.

There is no "Trainz Plus Gold" or "Trainz Plus Standard". There is only the one Trainz Plus program version (ignoring the beta test versions). The program is the same whether you have the extra "Gold" option or not. "Gold" gives you free access to all DLC packages plus access to special "Gold Only" DLC packages and advanced access to DLC packages that will later be released for purchase by all users. Your Gold access is determined by the username and password locked into your copy of Trainz.

 

[jaredvazquez012]

There is no "Trainz Plus Gold" or "Trainz Plus Standard". There is only the one Trainz Plus program version (ignoring the beta test versions). The program is the same whether you have the extra "Gold" option or not. "Gold" gives you free access to all DLC packages plus access to special "Gold Only" DLC packages and advanced access to DLC packages that will later be released for purchase by all users. Your Gold access is determined by the username and password locked into your copy of Trainz.

How fascinating

What do we call the two options of Trainz Plus listed on that page for someone browsing it for the first time?

 

[pware]

My experience was that I originally subscribed to Trainz Plus before Gold membership became available and then later switched over after it became available. There was no new software download or upgrade. The only change was that my normal login now gave me free access to all the DLC.

As to what you call the two options, I do not know. But if you scroll down to the table describing the features of TRS22PE, Trainz Plus "Standard" (I.e. with no Gold membership) and Trainz Plus Gold the only difference is that Gold gives you access to all DLC without having to pay for each download.

Yes, you do pay extra to get the Gold membership but I once did a price check. I added up the cost of buying all the individual DLC items and it quickly exceeded the extra cost of the membership long before the last item was added in.

 

[JCitron]

@Smileyman

You can purchase everything except for those exclusive items such as the Tornado, HST, and some other things I can't remember offhand as long as they are compatible with TRS19 and up. If you ever "upgrade", they will install without any problems at all from the content store.

 

[Smileyman]

Hi John.
Yes, I know there's a bunch of stuff I could buy, but that's not the point.

With the UK Trainz scene so empty and depleted, with rare UK releases, freeware or payware, N3V had a chance to revive the scene, and get some well needed new customers from the competitors, by showing them what Trainz can do and what it has.
Instead they chose to lock the HST, the class 11, and more behind a subscription.

What a stupid move.

I think that the only thing at this moment that would make me upgrade to TRS2022 is if there were updates to MCM beyond TRS2019 that fixed a certain annoying bug that occasionally forgets the contents of a Stop Zone , but with little to no information on this to be found anywhere, it's unlikely to happen.
(Is @pguy still around, and developing EIT MCM?)

If I did upgrade to TRS2022 because of an MCM fix, I still wouldn't buy any 2022 content that was available on principle.

If I was to buy some of the TRS2019 stuff off them, or upgrade to TRS2022 to get some of the stuff that's not locked behind subscription, I'd feel like I was rewarding them.

I'm a stubborn git, but I'm right!