What's the Point?

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Hi everybody.
However, that is Britain and having watched some of the youtube videos of Russian truck accidents due to the way they are driven and the very poor maintenance of the vehicles I would imagine any risk assessment done their would be very much higher. Again in the UK all rail crossings have emergency phones in case of an incident/breakdown and providing the train is more than a mile and a half away then contact can be made and the consist brought to a halt even with HST's. As you stated it is drivers weaving between the lowered half barriers that cause accidents in Britain. However, these drivers are not very often around to answer any court charges that could have been laid.
It would be interesting to see some table with stats of road vehicle - train collisions with the make and year of the car, the cause of the accident. In my country almost all Soviet lorries have been replaced with new ones. The one I talked about was a quite new Scania which is not some Russian ZiL or GAZ or KAMAZ or any other. Our level crossing have a phone number written on them but I'm not sure if that is only to report that the LC equipment is not working or also to warn trains that you have broken down on the tracks.

On a side note: All LC's with barriers emit a warning sound when the barriers are closing. But it seems to me that the new Bombardier equipment warning sound is much much more quiet than on the older crossings.
 
It would be interesting to see some table with stats of road vehicle - train collisions with the make and year of the car, the cause of the accident. In my country almost all Soviet lorries have been replaced with new ones. The one I talked about was a quite new Scania which is not some Russian ZiL or GAZ or KAMAZ or any other. Our level crossing have a phone number written on them but I'm not sure if that is only to report that the LC equipment is not working or also to warn trains that you have broken down on the tracks.

On a side note: All LC's with barriers emit a warning sound when the barriers are closing. But it seems to me that the new Bombardier equipment warning sound is much much more quiet than on the older crossings.

We have the same information on our level crossing gates. "Call 1-800-xxx-xxxx to report any failures..., etc.", so I think your assumption is correct and the number is to report equipment failure and not an emergency. Our gates all emit warnings of some kind either as a bell ringing or siren going off. The problem is even with the gates down, people don't want to wait the 30seconds or less for the train to go by and will run around the gates.

I was sitting at a crossing in Andover MA, a somewhat snobbish town with NIMBYs and yuppies galore, when a woman in a fancy new high end BMW pulled up behind me. She sat for about 2 seconds then revved up her engine, blew her horn at me then pulled around me to cross the tracks. She got part way when a train came through. If I wasn't there, she would have been hit. I guess she felt she was from the privileged class that are exempt from trivial things such as level crossings, traffic lights, and stop signs.

For awhile there about 3 or 4 accidents a month at the 2 level crossings in the town all caused by people going around the gates. They were all minor accidents, but still they were unnecessary because people didn't want to wait until it was safe to cross the tracks.

John
 
We have the same information on our level crossing gates. "Call 1-800-xxx-xxxx to report any failures..., etc.", so I think your assumption is correct and the number is to report equipment failure and not an emergency. Our gates all emit warnings of some kind either as a bell ringing or siren going off. The problem is even with the gates down, people don't want to wait the 30seconds or less for the train to go by and will run around the gates.

I was sitting at a crossing in Andover MA, a somewhat snobbish town with NIMBYs and yuppies galore, when a woman in a fancy new high end BMW pulled up behind me. She sat for about 2 seconds then revved up her engine, blew her horn at me then pulled around me to cross the tracks. She got part way when a train came through. If I wasn't there, she would have been hit. I guess she felt she was from the privileged class that are exempt from trivial things such as level crossings, traffic lights, and stop signs.

For awhile there about 3 or 4 accidents a month at the 2 level crossings in the town all caused by people going around the gates. They were all minor accidents, but still they were unnecessary because people didn't want to wait until it was safe to cross the tracks.

John

Snobbery especially eminates from the Blue-State, big-money limousine-liberal Northeasterners/and Left-Coast types. MA, RI, CT, NY, MD, and my home state of NJ tend to produce. Though they often drive Range Rovers and other tanks, they run the gamut. We have soccer moms operating vehicles Marines wouldn't have operated 40 years ago, and the blood to show for it.
 
Your political affiliation has nothing to do with the stupidity of racing trains to the crossing. And neither does snobbery have a political color, as Fox would have you believe. And what does the Corp have to do with scorer moms and what they drive?

John
 
We have the same information on our level crossing gates. "Call 1-800-xxx-xxxx to report any failures..., etc.", so I think your assumption is correct and the number is to report equipment failure and not an emergency. Our gates all emit warnings of some kind either as a bell ringing or siren going off. The problem is even with the gates down, people don't want to wait the 30seconds or less for the train to go by and will run around the gates.

I was sitting at a crossing in Andover MA, a somewhat snobbish town with NIMBYs and yuppies galore, when a woman in a fancy new high end BMW pulled up behind me. She sat for about 2 seconds then revved up her engine, blew her horn at me then pulled around me to cross the tracks. She got part way when a train came through. If I wasn't there, she would have been hit. I guess she felt she was from the privileged class that are exempt from trivial things such as level crossings, traffic lights, and stop signs.

For awhile there about 3 or 4 accidents a month at the 2 level crossings in the town all caused by people going around the gates. They were all minor accidents, but still they were unnecessary because people didn't want to wait until it was safe to cross the tracks.

John

And the fact that she deliberatley tried to do that makes me not even want to show any compassion or humanity towards her. That kind of stuff really pisses me off and I'm a firm believer that anyone who blatanly does something stupid or illegal and gets themselves killed, should not deserve any help whatsoever. Yes that means hit and run where the train just keeps going. I might get some **** for it but I think enough is enough. Either that or start revving up the ramification for trespassing. Yes I believe in trespassing railroads should be a felony or federal offense. Maybe that will deter some people from playing on railroad property or racing trains. And PFX don't come to me about ranting on people you knew that were so jacked up that they took their own lives. You know that's just being selfish and I hate it when people use their circumstances as a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. What makes you anymore special or above everyone else??!! I can't use autism for me making threats or anything illegal, so why should they be allowed to do so?
 
Part of my job was being a member of the recovery team and I have seen them all.
I cannot remember one which was not caused by driver error, reasons being alcohol and drug use, impatience, daring, dicing the train, suicide and such. People also get used to train movements at set times, and when the train is early or late they just do not look out any more .
One accident I will not forget was a bus full of people, many of them school children, the driver thought he could make it and the train whacked the bus. The train was loaded with logs and the logs popped the people out the bus windows while it was being dragged down the track , the rest I will leave for your imagination.
After dark is the most dangerous time, when the locomotives have passed one cannot see dark cars in the vehicles lights , especially crossings on farms and in the bush around bends . Road and level crossing warning signs are just ignored or not noticed at all , lack of concentration , drivers being tired and impatient.
 
And they say that making the bus stop and then cross will help. I say let the bus go without stopping because cars are way more likely to get hit then a bus because a car can accelerate and stop faster than a bus so people think that a car can beat a train but we all know that's not true. The bus driver raced and lost. I'm sure that was the case in the 1964 salinas accident or the driver just wasn't paying attention. So I say make all the vehicles stop or let them go. At least give it a try. Doesn't matter what vehicle it is, all are avoidable by any chance. And if a break down happens and the car stops on the tracks then that means it wasn't properly maintained.
 
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About that California's bus law, I presume.

Take a look at what happens when a disused level crossing on a highway starts malfunctioning. Just a month back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yuqZOaKlOE

Our level crossings usually lower the barrier just a few seconds after the lights and bells come on. (Where there are barriers, that is) And most people patiently wait that minute or two for the train to come.
http://youtu.be/jYVhmIIVsv8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCe97RAqeis
Why do the barriers in America close so late? Your freight trains are much heavier and faster!
 
And they say that making the bus stop and then cross will help. I say let the bus go without stopping because cars are way more likely to get hit then a bus because a car can accelerate and stop faster than a bus so people think that a car can beat a train but we all know that's not true. The bus driver raced and lost. I'm sure that was the case in the 1964 salinas accident or the driver just wasn't paying attention. So I say make all the vehicles stop or let them go. At least give it a try. Doesn't matter what vehicle it is, all are avoidable by any chance. And if a break down happens and the car stops on the tracks then that means it wasn't properly maintained.
So you are telling me that buses should just not have to stop at crossings.... Yesterday I was trackside right around 3:30pm and a train was approaching, the crossing malfunctioned. Had the bus not stopped and heard the train horn, it would have crossed the CSX tracks and would most likely not had time to stop before it crossed the NS tracks before the train arrived because of the blind spot in between the tracks. The stopping and listening really does help save lives, I don't see why you would ever think about removing things that make everyone safer if they follow the rules.

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The gate did eventually partially activate as the train was basically on top of it, however the bus had a good chance of getting hit if it did not stop and listen.
 
It would be interesting to see some table with stats of road vehicle - train collisions with the make and year of the car, the cause of the accident. In my country almost all Soviet lorries have been replaced with new ones. The one I talked about was a quite new Scania which is not some Russian ZiL or GAZ or KAMAZ or any other. Our level crossing have a phone number written on them but I'm not sure if that is only to report that the LC equipment is not working or also to warn trains that you have broken down on the tracks.

On a side note: All LC's with barriers emit a warning sound when the barriers are closing. But it seems to me that the new Bombardier equipment warning sound is much much more quiet than on the older crossings.

viesturs, with reference to your statement " the age of the commercial truck In my country, almost all Soviet lorries have been replaced with new ones" I would have to say that the age of any truck has little bearing on its roadworthiness. It is felt that in the UK most driver single shifted vehicles average between 78,000 and 100,000 miles per year.

However in the Britain and many other countries throughout Europe these days vehicles operating from regional distribution centres for supermarkets etc, run on 2 or even 3 driver shifts per day (three drivers doing an eight hour shift each per vehicle, or two drivers doing 10 to 12 hour shifts per vehicle). The foregoing vehicles will average 800 to 900 miles every 24 hours and therefore in the first 15 days of operation from new a truck will have done more miles than the average car does in 12 months.

With the foregoing in mind it is obvious that the highest standards of maintenance is essential from the very outset of a vehicle's life to maintain maximum road-worthiness and it would seem that many vehicles on Russian roads fall well below that standard.
(Source reference: British road haulage Association, British freight transport Association, professional highway safety Journal)

Visestur, you also requested statistics for accidents at level crossings within Europe. Here are some of the statistics compiled from 2008/2009 which is the latest data following in depth investigations. As you can see that Latvia had the highest accident rate at level crossings per head of population and the United Kingdom the lowest

Country…………. number of people killed in level crossing accidents………. rate per head of population
Hungary……………………………………………….. 118…………………………………………………………… 1.18
Germany……………………………………………….. 52………………………………………………………………0.06
Czech Republic………………………………………..43……………………………………………………………..0.42
Romania…………………………………………………..42………………………………………………………………0.20
Poland……………………………………………………..40……………………………………………………………..0.10
France………………………………………………………38……………………………………………………………..0.06
Latvia……………………………………….27……………………………………………..1.20
Austria………………………………………………………25……………………………………………………………..0.30
Netherlands……………………………………………..18……………………………………………………………..0.11
Spain………………………………………………………….17…………………………………………………………….0.04
Portugal…………………………………………………….17……………………………………………………………..0.16
Slovakia……………………………………………………..17……………………………………………………………..0.31
Great Britain………………………………..14……………………………………………..0.02

source reference UIC, European Union Institute for collective studies.
Much more data can be obtained from the above sources including, injury figures, near misses, car and truck type and pedestrian deaths and injuries breakdown.

With the greatest of respect viesturs, can I remind you that it is protocol when challenging anyones statements, that the person challenging come forward the necessary statistics themselves and not request the person being challenged to do so.


Bill
 
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Issue is the kids are loud. The train horns are not as loud because of noise complaints by crew members. Also was the crossing a no train horn crossing? Because in my town there's a ton of those because neighborhoods claim that is causes pollution. So building the buses to be ake to hear them should help a ton. I can hear them from my car just fine with music playing whenever I pass over one that allows it.
 
Issue is the kids are loud. The train horns are not as loud because of noise complaints by crew members. Also was the crossing a no train horn crossing? Because in my town there's a ton of those because neighborhoods claim that is causes pollution. So building the buses to be ake to hear them should help a ton. I can hear them from my car just fine with music playing whenever I pass over one that allows it.

So your assuming its only school buses? Its all buses that have to observe this law. I really dont see what the problem is, a few extra seconds to make sure its safe to cross. Seems more like you saw one rare occurrence and somehow justify it as a common one. Flawed logic is flawed.
 
Meh, who what is the point of having hazardous material trucks stop before crossing as well. A little chlorine gas never killed anyone.
 
I say let the bus go without stopping because cars are way more likely to get hit then a bus because a car can accelerate and stop faster than a bus so people think that a car can beat a train but we all know that's not true.

You must have lungs of steel to get this sentence out!
 
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