What would it cost?

tommyr1234

New member
Now this is just a general question. What would it cost to buy my own private train, an f7a/b and a series of about 4 to 6 pullman coaches? basically like the NS executive train. plus to pay an engineer/crew? it will always be a dream of mine to have that, and was just curious if anyone had an idea? Hopefully i can win the lottery and make it happen :D

Also how much would it cost to run on someones rails? (CP/NS)? thanks, also sorry if this is in wrong section or if its not allowed.
 
It will remain a dream unless you go live steam even at that its exspensive. Well into the Hundred Thousands for a real train. Plus you would need somewhere to run it and to make a profit to maintain the engines, cars, track, pay the crew.
 
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As for numbers:

I don't know about an F7 and that would probably require a lot of restoration, but you can get in a 4-axle C39-8 for $150k at Sterling Rail. Coaches vary but typical Pullmans list between $30-$55k each. That totals for a high-end price of a little under $500k for a set including loco. Bear in mind you'd have to add head-end power or find a loco with it.

As for crews, it would depend on whether you were operating as a scenic railroad and, thus, might be able to get some volunteer help. If not, Careerbliss lists an average salary for a NJ Transit conductor to be $49k so figure $98k each after benefits, etc. Those guys are unionized I'm 99% sure. This really just a ballpark figure; it can vary widely.

I have no idea what maintenance runs or track costs are. You might want to research Bennett Levin and his Juniata Terminal Company for a clearer picture, but also keep in mind that he also put a lot of money into restoring his fleet into pristine condition.

http://www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/Listings.php?type=Passenger Car&fsw=FS
http://www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/Listings.php?type=Locomotive&fsw=FS
http://www.careerbliss.com/new-jersey-transit/salaries/conductor/

Edit: Looks like they have a full 11-item set for $850k at http://www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/classified.php?id=3946
 
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Ozark Mountain Rail-car lists passenger cars starting around $20,000 all the way up and past $150,000. Some need work to get running and looking good. Only 3 are listed as Amtrak Certified, and they are between $300,000 and $500,000.

There is an F7 sitting there and they was $83,000. Even a few F40PH's fro around $300,000 to $500,000. Although for $6,000 you can get a 10 ton switcher if that's you thing.

And a caboose could set you back anywhere form $7,000 to $40,000.

So it is do able, if say you A. Rob a Bank or B. Are Bill Gates son who really likes trains.


But that's not to say you cant do it even if you are none of those things. You could all ways buy a caboose, a few yards of rail and some ties, and set up a nice little display in your yard. (I know of one guy who has 2 caboose's and some signals in his back yard.) Or if you make the big bucks, there is a company that will restore and upgrade passenger cars to Amtrak standards. And you can pay Amtrak to pull you around.


As for the live steam ride on scales, there are a lot of options. Plum Grove makes a kit that fur just a hair over $2,000 you get a 2 axle box cab switcher that is electric. For $10,000 you can buy a ready to run coal or oil fired 0-4-0 in 7 1/2 inch gauge. And Discover Live Steam.com all ways has cars, locomotives, and other things (including railroads) for sale.



Then again, for $50 you can play Trainz, or Run8.
 
Since you propose to run it on class I rails, you're going to have to pay for a pilot employee (e.g., an engineer or conductor who knows the route over which you propose to travel) or crew, and you should figure you'll need a new pilot crew every 100 to 150 miles. Your crews will also be subject to the hours of service law, so you will need two or three crews for each 24 hour period. And you're going to have to have insurance coverage, too. If you train derails because of a condition under your control, you will be responsible for the damages. I'd expect the damage policy would have to be in the 10 to 50 million dollar range. And you'll need liability coverage for yourself, and anyone else in your control, as the railroad will insist on being provided waiver of responsibility. In other words, if they break it, you still own it. You'll also have to pay to have periodic inspections and maintenance done on your locomotive(s) and cars, as I doubt that any class I will allow you close to their rails without current inspections.

Low end round numbers: $500,000, or more for the train; $500,000 a year for the crew; $1,000,000 a year for operating expenses (fuel oil, lubricating oil, rust preventative for cooling water, wheels, couplers, brake shoes, &c.) $500,000 a year for insurance coverage; 1,000,000 a year for trackage rights payments, $100,000 for the first year for pilot crews (assuming after that, your crews will be qualified and no longer require pilots).

So, I'd say from the low end, figure on 3.5 to 5 million dollars to start from scratch.

These are just guesses, though, and if I were pressed, I'd say they could well be higher, maybe much higher.

ns
 
$500,000 a year for insurance coverage;

I want to say that's WAY low. I was talking with a steam crew member, and CN wanted $1,000,000 in insurance to let 1225 run across their track in Durand MI. Granted it is steam, but its still a big number.
 
I figured that to run a train on a Class I, he'd have to have 10 to 50 million in insurance coverage, but he'd be able to purchase that coverage for substantially less than the insured amount. I think your $1,000,000 as coverage, and my $500,000 was a very rough guess at what the premiums might be.

ns
 
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Thanks guys, it was just an idea that popped in my head and had to know. Most people that win the lottery go and buy fancy cars and houses, id buy a train LOL:hehe:
if i ever win the lottery youll all be able to ride on my train for free haha
 
An old farmer won 375 million, and said he was going to buy a brand new John Deere tractor, and a whirlybird ... he just could not fathom that he dint' need to live on the farm no more.

I would go to a school bus manufacturer and buy a brand new "Short Bus", stripped of seats, and put in a pick-a-nick bench inside, then I could go campin' and not get rained on, then I'd drive it cross Canada from Nova Scotia to Baniff, and see the Spiral Loops, Tehatchapi, and every scenic RR across the US.

You could probably buy the East Broad Top RR
 
I think there is a railroad with steam engine and coaches for sale Gatineau / Wakefield Canada, parts of the line got washed out but $5,000,000 should see it all working again.

CheerioJohn
 
I figured that to run a train on a Class I, he'd have to have 10 to 50 million in insurance coverage, but he'd be able to purchase that coverage for substantially less than the insured amount. I think your $1,000,000 is coverage, and my $500,000 was a very rough guess at what the premiums might be.

ns

Sadly, the insurance costs put a lot of small operations out of business. In the past 20 years, many tourist lines have gone under because of this including the Winnipesaukee Railroad which ran on a former B&M branch from Wakefield, New Hampshire to Wolfboro. In the mid-1980s, they shut down due to the insurance costs skyrocketing, and the tracks have become an unused ROW meant for speeders.

John
 
it would be fairly cheaper (yet still very expensive) to do what most rich folks with train dreams do, and buy just some cars & pay Amtrak to move them around the country. Insurance is cheaper, as is crew pay; although you don't have your own locomotive pulling your trains then. Of course of the price up-side you have to then ensure that your cars meet with Amtrak's PV standards.

You can even rent PV cars for trips if you didn't want to own one.
 
Now this is just a general question. What would it cost to buy my own private train, an f7a/b and a series of about 4 to 6 pullman coaches? basically like the NS executive train. plus to pay an engineer/crew? it will always be a dream of mine to have that, and was just curious if anyone had an idea? Hopefully i can win the lottery and make it happen :D

Also how much would it cost to run on someones rails? (CP/NS)? thanks, also sorry if this is in wrong section or if its not allowed.

I don't know about owning a locomotive....but when the locomotives of old technology are sent to scrapyard , the engine of the locomotive alone is sold for more than 1000000 $ to the companies who can make use of it in other ways .. other charges are there too like fuel,body,wiring,batteries,etc.

I'll post a video if i can find one.
 
I've thought that should I win the lottery and get tens of millions of dollars I'd use part of it to get the Cotton Belt #819 (Steam 4-8-4) back into operation. The current estimated cost (latest I've seen) is somewhere around $750,000 to get it "road ready". It is/was a beautiful engine but has been setting for years, partially disassembled, in the old Cotton Belt shop in Pine Bluff, AR where I think it was originally built. Many of the steam era volunteers who restored and maintained the engine have probably died by now. It is a "war baby" that went into service on 2/8/1943. It was built because the War Board would not allow SSW to buy new EMD FT diesels at the time. I think it is the last SSW steam loco to be built. It served until 7/9/1955. It was fully restored and ran excursions from about 1986-1993. Since the mid-90s it has set in the shop under some stage of overhaul. It is low mileage (about 820,000 miles), can pull 100 cars, and only uses about 15 gallons of oil per mile. Apparently, there is some issue with the UP who now owns the former SP/SSW and MP track through Pine Bluff. I've been told that because it is not a UP heritage unit they will not allow it to operate on UP tracks. It is currently owned by the Cotton Belt Rail Historical Society/Arkansas Railroad Museum who is looking for funding to complete the restoration and get it recertified for rail operation. Then maybe some agreement can be worked out with UP.
 
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I think 3.5-5 Mil is a pretty good guess, to get started and maybe 6-12 months operation. There are so many variables its not even funny, so its about impossible to put a solid number down. If you want to continue operation until your death without ever having to work again, 100 Mil in the bank is probably a good place to start, particularly to include a locomotive. Figure 200Mil for an A-B set as was described at one time.

Falcus
 
If I was to win the lottery, I would go to the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum (TVRM) and purchase a former Southern nee-Central of Georgia RS-3, which just sits on the tracks and painted black. I would get the locomotive up and running and lease it to the TVRM for them to use. Profits and expenses would be split with me and the TVRM 50-50, while I would pay 100% for the restoration. As for paint scheme, I would not paint it in Southern colors and lettered for the Central of Georgia, but the Central of Georgia paint scheme found on Norfolk Southern's Central of Georgia heritage unit. There's this passenger car, an observation with a flat rear end, that I would also like to restore, but it's privately owned. However, the reason for this restoration was because I was able to slip inside a couple of times and the interior is complete, more than likely 100% original. It had looked like someone had just left the car and locked the door behind it. Like the RS-3, I would pay 100% for the restoration, and then the profits and expenses would then be split 50-50. Does this sound reasonable?
 
Does this sound reasonable?

That depends on your definition of Reasonable... Its a nice dream to be sure. But if we applied what we know here about actually attempting what you propose.... It'd be alot stickier then what you're suggesting.

Museums almost never operate in the black. The excursions cost money, and the revenue is usually maybe enough to pay for fuel if they're lucky, well established, and popular. So you'd be splitting expense, not profit.

Next, the museum would never go 50/50 like that, particular for that paint scheme. NS took some liberty with some of their "Heritage Schemes", and IIRC that was one of them. There is further complications if the locomotive is listed on the Register of Historic Places (This has really strict rules about whats allowed to be done to the locomotive). The museum would want to dictate terms on alot of it more then likely, but I'm sure they'd be happy to take your money regardless.

Finally, that private coach.... Private coach's have a tendency to be "Redecorated" as it were, not to mention "Renovations". And generally when someone has the cash to buy a car in the first place, they have the cash to have alot of this custom work done privately (Read "Completely and Thoroughly"). Unless it started life as a Private Business Coach (Possible, but Unlikely), then its almost certainly not in its original form. That said, it'd actually be easier to buy it off the owner and modify it to your hearts content then the locomotive would be. But the museum would probably lose interest in "Storing/Using it" real quick if you went too nuts on modifications.

Anywho, with enough money, I'm sure you could do all of that, but I think you'd be looking at a minimum of at least 50 Million before it'd be likely you'd be able to accomplish all of that....

Good Luck,
Falcus
 
My second option on the 50-50 would then be something like 40 (me)-60 (TVRM), the private passenger car would also be leased to the TVRM to be used on excursions. They've got two observation cars, Eden Isle, which is an old heavyweight observation car with rear platform, and an Ex-Seaboard round-ended observation. However, Eden Isle needs work done on her so she's out of commission. The Seaboard car can be found on 21st Century Steam Excursions, Summerville Steam Special, and Chickamauga Turn excursions. However, all three trains run on the weekends, meaning having an observation car on each train impossible. Having the private railcar restored and leased allows for more flexibility so that there can be two trains with observation cars instead of one. Then again, I also plan on donating some money along with having the equipment restored. Also, the Central of Georgia heritage unit was painted in the paint shop at nearby Debutts Yard, so, though highly unlikely, I could try to get a few cans of paint from them or at least some leads on how to get some of the paint. Also, I would like to keep the private railcar in 'as-is' condition. However, I would like to add an 'old-timey' speedometer to it so that I can see how fast the train's going.
 
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