What "What If" Railroad would you like to see (Either Simulated or Real Life)?

[farthegn]

What "What If" Railroad would you like to see (Either Simulated or Real Life)?

Think of some railroads that you are interested in that never really made it as well as they'd like to have had. What are they? Where would they go? Where were they in real life? What condition do you think it would be in today had it done better? When did it run?

Mine are:
Watauga & Yadkin River - Went from Wilkesboro, NC to Darby, NC from 1912 untill 1920. Their line may still exist if it had went from Wilkesboro, NC all the way to Johnson City, TN. It would probably be just another secondary Mainline under Norfolk Southern Though.

Carolina & Northwestern - Ran from Chester, SC to Lenoir, NC from 1884 until the Southern broke it down in the 1950s. At one time it ran to the rural community of Morteimer, NC deep in the Mountains until 1937. It would probably have connected to the Virginia-Carolina (Virginia Creeper) somewhere in Watauga or Ashe County. Once again, knowing the Southern, it would be another Secondary Mainline of Norfolk Southern (I have serious doubts that CSX, or it's predicessors would have had much influence in this regon of the Mountains).

Milwaukee Road (I'm sure you all know this one) - What if the Pacific Mainline had survived past 1980 into the present? I have no idea if the railroad would still be independent or just another road gobbled up by another power-huingry 1st classer. I have doubts that BNSF would be interested, since they have a similar line. Possible Union Pacific may want it if it were successful enough. Maybe (like in real life) C&NW (1st Merger) or SOO (2nd Merger) could have taken it and survived away from UP or CP. Most likely, I think, either CN or CP would have taken it in the 1990's one way or another.

East Tennessee and Western North Carolina (3ft Gauge) - Ran from Johnson City, TN to Cranberry, NC from 1882 to 1950. It had a tributary called the Linville River Railway that ran from Cranberry, NC to Boone, NC and a branch to Pineola, NC slowly being built from the 1890s to 1919, operations sadly ended with the 1940 flood. What if the railroad even went further and bridged the blue ridge with a mainline? Would they make it Standard Gauge? Would they be still a thriving railroad today? Would they be under Norfolk Southern or CSX?

Once again, these are "what if's". Post all the what if's you would like on this thread. Who knows, someone's immagination may be sparked.

 

[schweitzerdude]

Re Milwaukee Road

No one wanted the Milwaukee Road's route across the Bitterroot Mountains at Lookout Pass (on the Idaho-Montana border) - it was a bad idea from day one since MR's route across the mountains was more difficult to operate and maintain compared to the much easier routes along the Kootenai River (now BNSF) or the Clark Fork River (now Montana Raillink), both of which are not many miles north of Milwaukee Road's route.

However, they have converted 15 miles of MR's former right of way from Lookout Pass to the west into a great bike trail. It's called the Hiawatha Trail; you go through 10 tunnels, cross 7 high trestles, with informative signs with historical photos at various points, describing the changes from steam to electric to diesel to bankruptcy as the years passed. May well be the most scenic rails to trails project in the USA. Downhill all the way, with a shuttle bus to bring you and your bike back to the starting point. You can also rent bikes. Highly recommended - I've done it several times.

http://www.skilookout.com/hiawatha/ (be sure to check out the picture gallery)

http://www.suite101.com/content/route-of-the-hiawatha-bike-trail-idaho-a262033/

 

[TweetsieDude]

I think the ET&WNC Would've ended up like the DRGW, if the wash out didn't happen; and would have probably became scenic tourist line. I say this because the DRG, and further up the line had some tight squeezes to make, and not econmically feasable to re gauge it. The Laural Fork railroad was a sg logging railroad which followed the ET&WNC ROW from Johnson City to Laural Fork. It was basically a SG version of the ET&WNC. The ET&WNC Had plans early on to continue building east for the narrowgauge. It was in competition with the Carolina & Western NG railroad. They couldn't go any further than Boone due to the fact they would basically fall off the edge of the mountian, it stopped there. If the SG portion expanded i would think they wouldn't have made a main line, all due to the fact the SOU, and Clinchfield interchanged there. It would probably be under the NS today if that was done.

Just my 12 cent

Rock On!
Dusten

 

[Carfreak4]

Honestly for me, it would be Penn Central. It was a good idea, but there was no planning whatsoever involved in the actual merging process. I would have liked to see it live and run rather than having it taken over by Conrail. Don't get me wrong, I love CR, but I would have much more liked to see what could have happened to PC if it had lived past 1976.

Carfreak4

 

[cascaderailroad]

There was no time to plan the PC merger ... as PRR & NYC went bankrupt, all because: Eisenhower, GM, Ford ...etc... purposely set up a monopoly to sabotage and dismantle the RR's and trolley systems, under the dirrect orders of their new government lobbyists, who were promoting the cross country interstate road system.

Penn Central was an emergency merger of two bankrupt RR's ... the PC merger eventually went bankrupt as well ... and Conrail also went bankrupt. It seems this country's government has no fond endearment for RR's and nostalgia ... as politicians in Washington DC are not railfans whatsoever ... for the overall gameplan is all about money, through political corruption ... only !

 

[jadebullet]

There was no time to plan the PC merger ... as PRR & NYC went bankrupt, all because: Eisenhower, GM, Ford ...etc... purposely set up a monopoly to sabotage and dismantle the RR's and trolley systems, under the dirrect orders of their new government lobbyists, who were promoting the cross country interstate road system.

Penn Central was an emergency merger of two bankrupt RR's ... the PC merger eventually went bankrupt as well ... and Conrail also went bankrupt. It seems this country's government has no fond endearment for RR's and nostalgia ... as politicians in Washington DC are not railfans whatsoever ... for the overall gameplan is all about money, through political corruption ... only !

That makes no sense. No offense. GM, Ford and Eisenhower would have suffered if the railroad and trolly industry went under. GM built locomotives, Ford used railroads, as well as actually owned the DM&IR for a while, going as far as electrifying a part of it temporarily with cement arches, and why would Eisenhower want to get rid of the railroads. He loved how effective they were at moving military supplies. Sure, he created the interstate highway system, but that was mainly so that we would have an effective system to move nuclear warheads if the need arose, which is one of the reasons why all highway overpasses have to be above a standard height.

Also, if you look at the issue of getting cars to market, the railroad is more efficient. Actually come to think of it, you forgot too add the fact that the economy would collapse due to our reliance on railroads. Sure, in the 80s, we lost alot of railroading lines, but alot of them were redundant lines.


The reason that Penn Central failed was due to the fact that the NYC and PRR conducted business in very different ways. When they merged, rather than assimilating the two railroads, instead, they kept trying to run it both ways. Due to this mismanagement, as well as crippling over regulation, the company was unable to turn a profit, or even keep up with their locomotive maintenance, thus causing even more funding issues. Then, in a failed gamble, they attempted to get government money by purposely letting their tracks and equipment further deteriorate to the breaking point. At this point they sent a video (search "this is Penn Central" on youtube) to the government, and demanded bailout money or else they would shut down the entire system. The government's response was to start to make plans to take over the railroad have it be government run. This was eventually shot down in favor of Conrail, a government backed, but privately run railroad that would consolidate all of the eastern railroads that had gone bankrupt. These railroads had gone bankrupt at least partially because the PC merger took away interchange traffic. Though a few of the railroads could have recovered, Reading, Erie Lackawanna, and Lehigh and Hudson come to mind, (LHRR probably would still be around if the PC's Ploukepsie bridge didn't burn.), the government realized that CR wouldn't do as well with competition, so they forced them into the merger.

Conrail initially suffered as it attempted to repair all of the PC assets, as well as years of deteriorating trackage while still dealing with horrible regulation. This changed in 1980 when Jimmy Carter reduced regulation on railroads, thus dragging the railroading scene out of the gutter.


Also, as for a not very railroad friendly government that only wants money and corruption, yeah, that isn't exactly how our government works. Sure, there can be corruption, but it normally doesn't have enough power to do what you suggested. Even if it could, such a decision would be met with great opposition, as it would not only put alot of people out of business, cripple the economy, and would reduce overall profit. Because of this, the government would be voted out of office.


Now, I have a what if. What if J.P.Morgan didn't collapse the Reading's company in order to reduce competition, and the Reading was able to maintain control over the Lehigh Valley, Central Railroad of New Jersey, Lehigh and New England, and a few other smaller railroads?

 

[backyard]

Unfortunately, the conspiracy was not a theory...

Yes, GM built buses, locomotives for a long time, as well as trucks.

GM tried to make locomotives that could be replaced after about ten years. The next new line was always intended to replace the last. But they did not count on the fact that railroads simply could not park trains while locomotives went up for scrapping, parts used for new production.

The style of the day was to overbuild, so now we have 1950 locomotives that are still active.

GM realized that there was no recurring market for locomotives, year after year.

Airlines had begun to take-out passenger service, roads were being developed as you see that nearly every mainline has a parallel road...giving trucks the upper hand.

It's easy to see Ford's use of railroads in inter-company transport of commodities. Since the DM&IR was a private carrier initially, it was obligated to continue to serve the public interest, by the ICC.

The Eisenhower Interstate System of roads was built for mobility, but never exclusive to the military.

Yes GM, Ford & several other corporate interests conspired to eliminate mass transit & by the 1970's the entire national railroad network was in debt, deferred maintenance had killed the infrastructure, there virtually was not "service."

In 1980, railroads & trucking was deregulated, that saved the railroads...

Read about the Great American streetcar scandal.

 

[motorbreath]

I just wish all of the "classic era" RRs were still around and all were profitable, even running passenger trains. Amtrak would have never happened, or if it did, it would have happened on it's own to service new areas or something. Locomotive builders would have progressed to build better and safer (yeah, I know, I hate safety, or least safety rules) equipment while retaining some of the classic designs as far as appearance is concerned. Look at a green goat or something similar. Tell me they couldn't stuff that into something resembling an RS3. or those P42 things, they could look like modern F-units or E-units. Why replace the GG1 with something else after they proved themselves for so long? Update the design, fix the bad things and keep the good.

Sure we would still see the ugly futuristic crap we have today (just my opinion - no whining), but we would still have some classic looking stuff too.

Oh, and the caboose never became obsolete, and since the economy was so good and the RRs so profitable, the extra crewmen was never an issue.

And I never got a DUI and I worked for a railroad when my world touring band was in between tours. And I also married the hot Puerto Rican rock & roll loving girl I dated in high school.

And Trainz was perfect, with no bugs and it would run fast on any computer no matter how much detail was added.

Yeah, I know that is not all practical, but this is a "what if" thread.

 

[backyard]

...tmi...

Motorbreath, almost all of your railroading dreams can be answered in Trainz....

We thought we could be rock-stars, but I'm just about sure we would have a secrete desire to be "normal...":hehe:

Cuban, for me...but Trainz is not anywhere near as tempermental...!:hehe:

I don't miss the railroads near as much as the first-generation locomotives, like the Tennessee Central RS36, or the Central of Georgia SD7 in it's original blue/grey scheme(best in the South)!

 

[illinoiscentral]

I'd have to say the Illinois Central...what if...they never merged with Gulf, Mobile and Ohio. They GM&O stays independent and so does IC. IC merges with the Kansas City Southern (which was talked about) and becomes the new IC with cars and engine in IC paint, bearing KCS reporting marks.

 

[GS41995]

I would've liked to see the Erie Lackawanna merge with the Reading.

It would have extensive commuter service. Competive Phildaphia to NYC metro area runs. Big Freight lines connecting major markets. Plus fast mainlines which could lure lucrative fast freight service. Plus major despoits of resources and industiral centers. An Ideal railroad for merging. I believe!
:udrool: :mop: :udrool: :mop: :udrool: :mop:

 

[farthegn]

More Mergers

Here's some more mergers:
1. Western Carolina Railroad, Carolina & Northwestern, Yadkin Valley Railroad (Original, but building a branch to Lenoir and continuing it's mainline across the mountains through Boone, into Butler, TN), as well as merging with Virginia-Carolina, via branch to connect with it near West Jefferson, NC, and don't forget merging with the Virginia & Southwestern; all before the Southern ever got to it; therefore calling it the NC&W.

2. Colorado & Southern Narrow Gauge going WAY past Gunnison, CO, far into Utah and possibly Southern Nevada, therefore, surviving as a much more proffitable railroad and ending up like the D&RGW (With similar large locomotives of course).

3.Colorado Midland surviving to the present (Independent all the time, BN-owned, ATSF-Owned, or a shortline that broke away from the ATSF or BN) and Maybe reaching all the way to Salt Lake City. Bsk Ivanhoe Tunnel was not a disaster in this scenario.

4. A fictional first class railroad going all the way from Seattle, WA to Fairbanks, AK. You could have it taken over by another First Class Merger like BN, UP, CP, or CN. Maybe an existing railroad built it. But if it were independent, I'd name it Yukon Pacific.​