What do I do to shut a safety valve up when the engine is running perfectly?

[Steamdemon]

Seriously, this has annoyed me a lot. I have had to stop every single time the safety valve has gone off. Do I have to look in the engine specs or something? I mean, the M7's safety valve went off even when a janus was helping out.

How on earth do I shut it up? (oh wait, mute it?)

EDIT: I did a bit of maintinence on Dragons Pass. I added tracks to the area with the gate and the bridge. Currently using an M7 and a Janus in scunthorpe livery to check the track. The janus is perfect for the job, as it's top speed is 23MPH.

 

[BLACKWATCH]

the M7's safety valve went off even when a janus was helping out.

The less work the M7 does itself, the less steam it needs, hence the safety valve popping because of excess steam.
To stop the safety valve popping, create less steam by shovelling less coal.

This applys to any steam locomotive.

 

[ZecMurphy]

If the safety valve is going off, it means that you have too much pressure in the boiler.

A few things you can do. First, ensure that your blower is off. Second, use the injectors to add a small amount of water. Adding cold water will cool the boiler, and hence drop the steam pressure (well, slow the rate at which steam is created, which in turn helps drop the pressure).

Also slow down on shoveling the coal as you near the top of the grade, since once you hit the top, you will be using less steam.

As a note, in Trainz, if the reverser is flashing yellow, it means you are working the locomotive too hard, and through this creating too much of a draft on the fire. This is causing your fire to be sucked through the boiler, which means you are not getting enough heat out of your coal before it disappears into the smokebox. If it is flashing, either reduce the cut-off (move the reverser/cut-off back toward neutral) or reduce the regulator


This next bit is just a bit of a helper based off some of the practices I've observed/experienced at Puffing Billy here in Melbourne (experience based off our stationary boiler, namely the range you want the water level between!). The rest is observation/discussions with those who have fired/driven the locos there, as well as a few who have fired on the mainline locos.

If you are going up grade, and using steam/water, lightly use the injectors on the way up. Keep the water level between 50-60% of the gauge glass. After you clear the top of the grade, and are coasting, you will not be using as much steam. By not using the injectors too much on the way up, you will give yourself room to add water on the way down. As you come down the grade, bring the water level up to 70-80%.

When driving steam locos, try not to exceed 70-80% on the gauge glass. Any more, and you will over fill the boiler (and this in turn lowers your steam pressure!). In reality, this would cause the locomotive to prime, which can blow your cylinder covers off. Not a good thing...

Hope this helps
Zec

 

[Steamdemon]

Ok, that is when driving in cab mode, what about DCC mode?

 

[PEV]

Use Billegulla's Steam Engine Spec spreadsheet to adjust your loco engine spec. If you search the forum you will find how to use it and where to get it.

 

[Ghost42]

<snip> As a note, in Trainz, if the reverser is flashing yellow, it means you are working the locomotive too hard, and through this creating too much of a draft on the fire. This is causing your fire to be sucked through the boiler, which means you are not getting enough heat out of your coal before it disappears into the smokebox. If it is flashing, either reduce the cut-off (move the reverser/cut-off back toward neutral) or reduce the regulator
Zec

Good info, I thought is was wheel slip ( which of course is working the locomotive too hard ).
I sometimes get the regulator flashing, what is the reason for this?
Rog.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi Rog
That one would be wheel slip

If you do find you are slipping, hit the 'V' key to turn on the sand.



For safety valves in DCC, I'm not sure. It's likely a side effect of the enginespec, but I don't know specifically what would need to be changed (and what effect this would have in CAB mode).

Zec

 

[Ghost42]

Thanks Zec, I think I have it all covered now
Rog

 

[WildWillyWacko]

Question on draft

I'm happy to see this post and I'm assuming that you should be an authority on how Trainz models the subject. I need to understand more about:

"As a note, in Trainz, if the reverser is flashing yellow, it means you are working the locomotive too hard, and through this creating too much of a draft on the fire. This is causing your fire to be sucked through the boiler, which means you are not getting enough heat out of your coal before it disappears into the smokebox. "

A non fiction book I have, suggests that some of the more prestigous drivers of the old Pennsylvania RR considered it shamefull to use blowers to increase temperatures and pressures. I was under the impression that they relied on the skillful manipulation of the exhaust to produce more draft through the boiler tubes to maintain proper ( what ever that would be ) temperatures. I was assuming that more draft would mean more heat rather than less.

I have been trying to accomplish this effect in my own driving in 2010EE and I really think that what you stated is correct or maybe it is just making a negligable effect since I have to use the blower to maintain high pressures and by the way, that does seem to work really well!

Maybe a proper question is which effects are well modeled in Trainz and which just don't make as much difference? I wonder, for instance, why is it possible to put more than 100% coal in the fire box? I always thought 100% was 100% and more is not possible but there must be a reason for modeling it differently.

With all due respect

Wild Willy the Wacko

If the safety valve is going off, it means that you have too much pressure in the boiler.

A few things you can do. First, ensure that your blower is off. Second, use the injectors to add a small amount of water. Adding cold water will cool the boiler, and hence drop the steam pressure (well, slow the rate at which steam is created, which in turn helps drop the pressure).

Also slow down on shoveling the coal as you near the top of the grade, since once you hit the top, you will be using less steam.

As a note, in Trainz, if the reverser is flashing yellow, it means you are working the locomotive too hard, and through this creating too much of a draft on the fire. This is causing your fire to be sucked through the boiler, which means you are not getting enough heat out of your coal before it disappears into the smokebox. If it is flashing, either reduce the cut-off (move the reverser/cut-off back toward neutral) or reduce the regulator


This next bit is just a bit of a helper based off some of the practices I've observed/experienced at Puffing Billy here in Melbourne (experience based off our stationary boiler, namely the range you want the water level between!). The rest is observation/discussions with those who have fired/driven the locos there, as well as a few who have fired on the mainline locos.

If you are going up grade, and using steam/water, lightly use the injectors on the way up. Keep the water level between 50-60% of the gauge glass. After you clear the top of the grade, and are coasting, you will not be using as much steam. By not using the injectors too much on the way up, you will give yourself room to add water on the way down. As you come down the grade, bring the water level up to 70-80%.

When driving steam locos, try not to exceed 70-80% on the gauge glass. Any more, and you will over fill the boiler (and this in turn lowers your steam pressure!). In reality, this would cause the locomotive to prime, which can blow your cylinder covers off. Not a good thing...

Hope this helps
Zec

 

[RPearson]

I wonder, for instance, why is it possible to put more than 100% coal in the fire box? I always thought 100% was 100% and more is not possible but there must be a reason for modeling it differently.

There are 2 coal mass inputs for the firebox in the steam container in the espec. One is max-coal-mass the other is the ideal-coal mass. I'm pretty sure the level shown on the hud is the % of ideal coal mass. The default value for ideal coal mass is 1/2 the max. Of course content creators are free to put anything they like in for these tag values. There's no assurance the value in the espec is realistic.

What exactly is the maximum coal mass for a locomotive's forebox? Pack it from grate to brick arch or crown sheet? And what's the ideal value. You won't find either listed in the loco's characteristics. You'll have to find the firebox dimensions and make some judgement calls based on suitable coal depth. You'll probably find some variation in judgement among espec designers here.

Bob Pearson

 

[JamesMoody]

A non fiction book I have, suggests that some of the more prestigous drivers of the old Pennsylvania RR considered it shamefull to use blowers to increase temperatures and pressures.

And not just the PRR - plenty of drivers and railways hold that view.

I was under the impression that they relied on the skillful manipulation of the exhaust to produce more draft through the boiler tubes to maintain proper ( what ever that would be ) temperatures. I was assuming that more draft would mean more heat rather than less.

Up to a point.

Once you go beyond a certain level of drafting, you are actually moving so much air you are lifting unburnt coal off the fire and throwing it out the chimney. Obviously, this means you aren't burning that coal, and therefore you are getting less heating effect for the amount of coal you are putting in.

Maybe a proper question is which effects are well modeled in Trainz and which just don't make as much difference? I wonder, for instance, why is it possible to put more than 100% coal in the fire box?

Each firebox has an ideal amount for combustion. We've set 100% in the interface to be the ideal combustion level. However, if you feel like it, you can overfill the firebox - right up to the point you physically can't get any more coal in (it just falls out the door). Hence you can overfill the firebox beyond 100%. Doing so will disrupt the airflow, and you will actually burn less coal.

It's a valid technique if you have run the loco hard, have a nice hot fire, and suddenly need to cool things down - pile on the coal and pump in the water, and you'll cool the firebed and boiler. When the coal burns down a bit, and the boiler heats up a bit, the loco will be ready to go again.

 

[ZecMurphy]

As a note, the blower should be used either when coasting or when stationary, since you are not creating a draft from the cylinder output. Especially if you will be stationary for a while.

As James said, you can adjust your coal level accordingly (of course, Trainz sees it as an 'overall' level - would love to be able to control individual areas :hehe: ), so as to create more or less heat...

Another trick of the blower (one that we use on our stationary boiler) is to use it to actually burn your coal bed down a bit. Especially when you are nearing the end of your run

Zec

 

[WildWillyWacko]

Thanks , guys, and this:

"It's a valid technique if you have run the loco hard, have a nice hot fire, and suddenly need to cool things down - pile on the coal and pump in the water, and you'll cool the firebed and boiler. When the coal burns down a bit, and the boiler heats up a bit, the loco will be ready to go again."

is not just general engine lore but is valid in Trainz??? I used to run on the high side of optimum levels in that other simulator because when there was a heavy load put on the engines, if one shoveled too fast trying to keep up, the temperature would drop anyway but it would work better to slowly fall through the " sweet spot " when the going got tough.




"the blower should be used either when coasting or when stationary, since you are not creating a draft from the cylinder output. Especially if you will be stationary for a while."

I have noticed the above, especially being stationary!



Wild Willy the Wacko