Unrealistic block signalling

CPRailSD40-2

GMD C44-9W
Hi guys, nobody had made a proper script for block signals, they go red when a train approaches that certain block, and they go yellow once the train passes them. that is NOT prototypical, AT ALL. first of all. The block signals go red once the interlocking that it's facing clears, second of all. The block signal goes yellow once the train passes that block signal.

2n692jr.jpg


For example, the signals 3267N and 3267S will go red once interlockings 3256N and 3256S clear, so say a Westbound VIA were to clear signal 3256N, the block signal 3267N would go automatically red once clear. But once the VIA passes signal 3256N, that's when the block signal 3267N goes to its default yellow state. BUT, if 3256N were a block signal, 3267N would become yellow once passed, due to it facing a block signal. But unlike what I just explained, say an EASTBOUND VIA were to pass 3267S, he would turn yellow once the VIA has passed 3279S. but same thing applies with 3256N and the block signal 3278S, goes red once interlocking cleared. But turns yellow once interlocking passed. Block signals facing block signals work the same as a block facing an interlocking, except the block signal facing the direction of the train, would turn yellow instantly.

Any questions?

-CPRailSD40-2
 
Last edited:
Trainz is not an exact real world simulator. There are things that can't be duplicated exactly as in real life. You are going to have to learn to live with them.
 
I know that, I do not expect to like actually maintain and fuel locomotives, but this is very simple, very. Any good script creator can EASILY do this
 
Those Chuck Bright tutorials are great for learning the basics even today.

On signals in Trainz, if I remember this correctly, the system they have adopted for Trainz many years ago is based on the NORAC signal rules, which comes out of the Northeast Operations Rules Advisory Committee. NORAC is used in the eastern portion of the US, except for CSX and NS. The west cost uses GCOR, or General Code of Operating Rules, and finally Canada uses CROR, or Canadian Rail Operating Rules.

These systems are all similar, but different in many ways. For Trainz it's not necessary to know these things, but keep in mind they will be different than what you would expect since you use the CROR system where you come from and mentioned in another thread on a tri-head signal.

John
 
Trainz signals do not act like pure ABS signals; they only clear when a train is approaching them. That would explain why signals FACING the interlocking do not upgrade from Stop-and-Proceed, as you mentioned in your first sentence. Trainz does not have a human dispatcher, so the sim does as best as it can within that limitation.

Is it possible to get them to act like pure ABS signals? Yes, with the right scripting; my signals have a latent feature for this, but it is not currently enabled because it introduces a host of problems. The native, quasi-TCS system works better, although it's not bulletproof either.

In a TCS system, any opposing signals would and should be set to Stop or Stop-and-Proceed in order to prevent an opposing train from colliding with a train moving at speed. That's the primary purpose of TCS. Some systems may allow a signal to release into a pure ABS state after passage until a current-of-traffic is established for a following train. For Trainz' purposes, though, since there is no dispatcher, we have to rely on the trains themselves to establish a current-of-traffic. Plus, it has to be done without sacrificing in-game performance, hence we can't have each signal checking the next 10 or 20 signals down the line for a train.
 
Look, the way i see it is that this is a SIMULATOR. It's not perfect, nor will it ever be.

If you've played it as long as i and many others have, you come to realize that there are just some things that are hard to re-create in a simulator like this.

But hey, you seem to think it's so easy, so why don't you do it?

Regards,
 
Finding myself in the unusual position of defending N3V (!), Trainz has to cater for signaling systems from around the world all of which work on different principles even within the same continent or same country in different eras. You wouldn't find AWS or TPWS on a historic UK route for example. Obviously the more advanced signaling systems produced by third parties over the years do use scripting to overcome the limitations of the default setup, but even if you have prototypical scripting you still need to adapt the layout on the ground to work in the way that Trainz expects.
 
And to add to what Vern has said here, in North American and Canada there are custom variants for different companies with variants within the same company caused by mergers in many places.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_railway_signaling

Good luck with your signal scripting and asset creation. For your scripting needs, I believe you should have an understanding of some of the higher-level languages such as C++ and Java (not Java Script).

John
 
Oh I see... But at least I can maybe try to program this script. but you really do not need a human dispatcher, just an option in "properties" for "interlocking facing" so it can go red when the interlocking goes green.

OK, seems good, when are you gong to be releasing your new range of signals which work as you require ? (after all it's EASY :) or so you say).

Whenever they are ready

Look, the way i see it is that this is a SIMULATOR. It's not perfect, nor will it ever be.

If you've played it as long as i and many others have, you come to realize that there are just some things that are hard to re-create in a simulator like this.

But hey, you seem to think it's so easy, so why don't you do it?

Regards,

I will try, I will also try to replace the non-realistic "yellow over green over red" aspect with that Canadian Interlocking searchlights really display...

Finding myself in the unusual position of defending N3V (!), Trainz has to cater for signaling systems from around the world all of which work on different principles even within the same continent or same country in different eras. You wouldn't find AWS or TPWS on a historic UK route for example. Obviously the more advanced signaling systems produced by third parties over the years do use scripting to overcome the limitations of the default setup, but even if you have prototypical scripting you still need to adapt the layout on the ground to work in the way that Trainz expects.

Ok, but this is simple, I will try it

I have no idea which route or which set of block signals you're talking about, but I haven't seen that problem in my routes.

http://trains.0catch.com/tutorial.html

Part 5 in that covers signal setup.

Look at the picture in the link
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I did look at the picture in the link, it doesn't tell me anything about the route or the signals. For example;

Chicago Metro 3.1,<kuid2:522774:100015:1>

Signals I'm using;

Signal Dwarf,<kuid:-1:100913>
Signal USA L02,<kuid:-12:11902>
Signal USA 02,<kuid:-12:21902>
Signal USA 04,<kuid:-1:100880>
Signal USA 2 L02,<kuid:-12:22962>
Signal USA 2 02,<kuid:-12:22902>
Signal USA 2 04,<kuid:-12:303>

I never had the problem you're talking about where the signal is red as the train approaches then goes to yellow or green after it passes, all the ones I tried when first learning this worked more or less normally - change from green or yellow to red as soon as the back coupler of the lead loco passes the signal. What I did have trouble with was the AI trains taking the scenic route and going wherever they wanted to go;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJb_8UywoRA

Which is where that ocatch tutorial became my bible, I learned how to use trackmarks and drive via instructions to make them go the most logical paths. Western Avenue Interlocking in Chicago;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k4cDDhVAao

Was a real challenge because the Trainz signals are so basic and don't have links (there are some specialty signals with links available from a 3rd party website but I found them too complicated to program) so I learned how to use

Trigger Multiple Signals,<kuid2:116387:26:1>

in order to eliminate collisions and traffic jams at the crossovers.


I'm not a big fan of the Trainz series, but having built routes in all of the "big three" now, I can't go back to MSTS or railworks simply because Trainz has the most intelligent and versatile AI traffic available. The other two you can't actually interact with AI traffic trains, all you can do is fake it to create a lame illusion of interaction.
 
Last edited:
I did look at the picture in the link, it doesn't tell me anything about the route or the signals. For example;

Chicago Metro 3.1,<kuid2:522774:100015:1>

Signals I'm using;

Signal Dwarf,<kuid:-1:100913>
Signal USA L02,<kuid:-12:11902>
Signal USA 02,<kuid:-12:21902>
Signal USA 04,<kuid:-1:100880>
Signal USA 2 L02,<kuid:-12:22962>
Signal USA 2 02,<kuid:-12:22902>
Signal USA 2 04,<kuid:-12:303>

I never had the problem you're talking about where the signal is red as the train approaches then goes to yellow or green after it passes, all the ones I tried when first learning this worked more or less normally - change from green or yellow to red as soon as the back coupler of the lead loco passes the signal. What I did have trouble with was the AI trains taking the scenic route and going wherever they wanted to go;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJb_8UywoRA

Which is where that ocatch tutorial became my bible, I learned how to use trackmarks and drive via instructions to make them go the most logical paths. Western Avenue Interlocking in Chicago;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k4cDDhVAao

Was a real challenge because the Trainz signals are so basic and don't have links (there are some specialty signals with links available from a 3rd party website but I found them too complicated to program) so I learned how to use

Trigger Multiple Signals,<kuid2:116387:26:1>

in order to eliminate collisions and traffic jams at the crossovers.


I'm not a big fan of the Trainz series, but having built routes in all of the "big three" now, I can't go back to MSTS or railworks simply because Trainz has the most intelligent and versatile AI traffic available. The other two you can't actually interact with AI traffic trains, all you can do is fake it to create a lame illusion of interaction.

I had a problem with when a train gets the clear, the opposite signal that is yellow remains yellow until the train actually comes, I might be able to solve this
 
Well, I hope you can solve it on your own because you're still not providing any information. I'm GUESSING TS12 because that's the only one listed in your station stops, but for all I know you could be talking about a route that you made in TRS2004 with signals you downloaded from jointed rail and you're trying to get them to work in TANE or something. No clue since you haven't provided any details or KUID numbers. Or whether this is a new route you're creating or a route you downloaded someplace or signals you made yourself in blender or something.
 
Well, I hope you can solve it on your own because you're still not providing any information. I'm GUESSING TS12 because that's the only one listed in your station stops, but for all I know you could be talking about a route that you made in TRS2004 with signals you downloaded from jointed rail and you're trying to get them to work in TANE or something. No clue since you haven't provided any details or KUID numbers. Or whether this is a new route you're creating or a route you downloaded someplace or signals you made yourself in blender or something.

The vagueness is killing us! :)

From what it appears to me is he wants to imitate something that operates under CROR, and Auran/N3V has always used NORAC. There are subtle differences in the operation and meaning of the signals and the only way he's going to get what he wants is to script the actions based on CROR.

FYI... JR Signals from TS12 work fine in T:ANE. I'm using them now. :)

John
 
Understood, but what he's describing is just plain faulty - a facing signal that changes from red to yellow and an opposing signal that is yellow with the train in the block, unless it's a linkable signal that's linked to the wrong track I can't see how that's possible. Double head signals in Trainz often display backwards aspects (green over red for a diverge, for example) especially when double crossovers are involved, but I've never seen what he's describing.
 
Same here. He needs to show us a diagram of how he's using the signals. This might 'splain what's going on.

The only thing I can think of is if he's using the Jointed Rail Searchlight signals, he's using a Home/Distant or an Approach signal which will look like their Type 06 Diverging signal (two heads). The difference between them is obvious because the Type 06 lacks the number plate while the others, their Type 03s, have this addition.

John
 
Well, I hope you can solve it on your own because you're still not providing any information. I'm GUESSING TS12 because that's the only one listed in your station stops, but for all I know you could be talking about a route that you made in TRS2004 with signals you downloaded from jointed rail and you're trying to get them to work in TANE or something. No clue since you haven't provided any details or KUID numbers. Or whether this is a new route you're creating or a route you downloaded someplace or signals you made yourself in blender or something.

I mean when a signal clears for a train, the signal opposing it remains yellow until the train actually approaches it
 
Same here. He needs to show us a diagram of how he's using the signals. This might 'splain what's going on.

The only thing I can think of is if he's using the Jointed Rail Searchlight signals, he's using a Home/Distant or an Approach signal which will look like their Type 06 Diverging signal (two heads). The difference between them is obvious because the Type 06 lacks the number plate while the others, their Type 03s, have this addition.

John

NOPE!!! I do not like the JR signals, minus the tri-lights. I'm using both Carreweb's and the SL3s on the DLS.
 
Understood, but what he's describing is just plain faulty - a facing signal that changes from red to yellow and an opposing signal that is yellow with the train in the block, unless it's a linkable signal that's linked to the wrong track I can't see how that's possible. Double head signals in Trainz often display backwards aspects (green over red for a diverge, for example) especially when double crossovers are involved, but I've never seen what he's describing.

Like what I said earlier, and the link in the post IS the diagram
 
Back
Top