UK rural routes growth

[pfx]

A happy little story for a Friday morning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14580224

Perhaps I should have called this thread the good, the bad...

The Embra trams debacle rumbles on.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-14573152

 

[rjhowie]

Some of those rises not far behind the NIR, ha, ha. But it is good news all round. Passenger lines actually re-opened here in Scotland have also broke records. Great news and I bet some places are envious?!

 

[Vern]

Main problem now in the UK is meeting the growth. The track capacity is saturated and we still suffer the legacy (on former Regional Railways routes) of replacing 5/6 coach loco hauled trains/3 car high density DMU's with 2 car Sprinters/Pacers in the 1980's. Not much fun travelling a scenic branch line squeezed in the vestibule of a Class 153!

 

[pfx]

Not much fun travelling a scenic branch line squeezed in the vestibule of a Class 153!

I thought you had to pay extra for that?

 

[Vern]

Actually I don't pay anything as I've worked on the railways for nearly 34 years... :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

However TBH these days I don't tend to use the facility that much. Modern trains leave me fairly cold, e.g. haven't been back up the West Highland Line or the Far North/Kyle since the Sprinters took over. There was no finer experience than sitting in a Mark One steam heat coach(or standing by the door with the droplight down), with a Class 26/27/37 pounding away up a 1 in 60 gradient. I remember fondly the sound of the thrash mingled with jointed track (most of that has gone now too, replaced with bland welded rail) and the beautiful aroma of turbocharged diesel fumes mixed with fresh mountain/moorland air and musty wisps of steam from the heating pipes.

Now we can only dream (or at least try and relive it in one of our favourite train sims).

 

[pfx]

Some day you'll be able to recreate the Kyle line as you describe. It's just taking me some time though...

I know what you mean about MU's. All function of fun. That's why I go and 'play' with smelly, dirty retired GMs.

 

[Vern]

Idea for the N3V suggestion box - the next dimension of Trainz is to add "aromavision" so we can recreate not only the sights and sounds but smells too! (Remembering to switch it off as you pass any adjacent pig farms ).

 

[wholbr]

Hi Vern, pfx and Everybody.

Ah Vern, we can all romanticize about the bygone days of the UK railways. How we all loved the Mk 1 compartment carriages where as a teenager me and my mates used to try and grab a compartment to ourselves, slide the door closed and stare at anybody else who looked like they might want to enter. Great days, full of great memories.

However, as you say things are very different now. There is not the same romance or aura in rail travel today but it does have very much to offer the commuter or someone who just wants to have a day out to the beach or countryside.

The first thing that the commuter wishes for his journey to work is punctuality and reliability. Long-distance road travel in the UK can no longer offer that. If anyone has a 9 AM or 10 AM meeting scheduled in London or any other major British city and has to travel any distance then commuting by road can no longer offer you a definitive arrival time due to congestion or the so often reported motorway closures.

The second thing that modern railways can offer is the “traveling office“. I often travel up to London Paddington and other cities and either up or back you will see people just like myself working on their laptops or these days tablet computers compiling reports, sending e-mails or just communicating with co-workers and customers on their phones. Carriages are always a buzz with people talking or tapping keyboards. Therefore unlike car travel rail travel is not lost time. It is a period when someone can be as productive as they are in any office.

For leisure travel the railways can offer a more relaxed style of travel compared to road or even air. Children do not have to be strapped in and they can move around. Their parents are able to speak to them and engage with them in video games, board games etc or accompany them to the buffet car for a drink or a packet of sweets. I often find that children are much better behaved on Trains than in many other situations you see them.

Finally, people do communicate and talk to one another on trains, especially when they have to stand or in the buffet car. I often find myself talking to complete strangers on almost any topic, and when they leave the train you will probably never see them again.

The above is the modern day UK railway both mainline and branch line. It has very much to offer and is the reason why the passenger numbers are climbing way ahead of anything expected.

They are great days for the railways once again
Bill

 

[klambert]

Hi Vern, pfx and Everybody.

Ah Vern, we can all romanticize about the bygone days of the UK railways. How we all loved the Mk 1 compartment carriages where as a teenager me and my mates used to try and grab a compartment to ourselves, slide the door closed and stare at anybody else who looked like they might want to enter. Great days, full of great memories.

However, as you say things are very different now. There is not the same romance or aura in rail travel today but it does have very much to offer the commuter or someone who just wants to have a day out to the beach or countryside.

The first thing that the commuter wishes for his journey to work is punctuality and reliability. Long-distance road travel in the UK can no longer offer that. If anyone has a 9 AM or 10 AM meeting scheduled in London or any other major British city and has to travel any distance then commuting by road can no longer offer you a definitive arrival time due to congestion or the so often reported motorway closures.

The second thing that modern railways can offer is the “traveling office“. I often travel up to London Paddington and other cities and either up or back you will see people just like myself working on their laptops or these days tablet computers compiling reports, sending e-mails or just communicating with co-workers and customers on their phones. Carriages are always a buzz with people talking or tapping keyboards. Therefore unlike car travel rail travel is not lost time. It is a period when someone can be as productive as they are in any office.

For leisure travel the railways can offer a more relaxed style of travel compared to road or even air. Children do not have to be strapped in and they can move around. Their parents are able to speak to them and engage with them in video games, board games etc or accompany them to the buffet car for a drink or a packet of sweets. I often find that children are much better behaved on Trains than in many other situations you see them.

Finally, people do communicate and talk to one another on trains, especially when they have to stand or in the buffet car. I often find myself talking to complete strangers on almost any topic, and when they leave the train you will probably never see them again.

The above is the modern day UK railway both mainline and branch line. It has very much to offer and is the reason why the passenger numbers are climbing way ahead of anything expected.

They are great days for the railways once again
Bill

Great days are for the railways once the privatised companies lower the bleedin fares and add more carriages to the existing services. Its not fair that once 8 car trains have been replaced by four car ones at a time when usage of rail transport is on the up again, maybe loco haulage isnt such a bad thing.

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.

Great days are for the railways once the privatised companies lower the bleedin fares and add more carriages to the existing services. Its not fair that once 8 car trains have been replaced by four car ones at a time when usage of rail transport is on the up again, maybe loco haulage isnt such a bad thing.

Kiambert, regarding your comment on fares, well you can still travel up to London from Somerset with an advanced off-peak ticket for around £20. The price does vary over the course of the day but that would be the price you would pay for a single ticket around mid afternoon (I believe).

With regard to peak time travel then the price I paid from Yatton in North Somerset to Paddington on Tuesday (23rd August) was 172 pounds return (British sterling). It does sound like a great deal of money. However, I do think this has to be put into the context of what would be the alternative.

As I stated in my earlier posting that if you wish to arrive in London or many other British cities prior to 9:30 AM any working day and have any distance of travel then the car is not an option due to the congestion on the British motorways.

That was the situation with myself on Tuesday. Therefore by road you would have to travel up the night before and stay in a hotel overnight. That would cost you in central London a minimum of £120 in the Holborn or City area midweek. Then there would be the cost of an evening meal (not normally included at the above cost). Along with the foregoing, in the same areas of London it now costs you a minimum of £50 to Park your car for a whole day. Hotels charge that rate even if you have stayed overnight. Along with the above you would obviously have to add the cost of fuel. In my case this would be around £30 for a diesel 1600 ltr car

Therefore, as demonstrated even at the cost of 170 pounds it is still cheaper to travel by rail with the advantage that you complete the business in one day and sleep in your own bed. That is why even with the apparent high cost of rail travel increasing numbers are still turning to the railways as their main business mode of travel.

With regard to overcrowding I would agree with you that it is a major problem. That said, it is simply that the increase in passenger numbers is far greater than anyone could foresee only a few years ago. With regard to train carriage numbers I believe that most HST's are now 12 carriage in length which is certainly the maximum length that most mainline terminus stations can handle. Also most mainline terminus stations in central London are now operating at maximum capacity of train movements throughout the working day. Therefore without major change that capacity cannot be increased.

However, these are problems of expansion and overuse and not the problems of underuse and retraction that the railways faced in Britain for so many years.

Bill

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

Great days are for the railways once the privatised companies lower the bleedin fares and add more carriages to the existing services. Its not fair that once 8 car trains have been replaced by four car ones at a time when usage of rail transport is on the up again, maybe loco haulage isnt such a bad thing.

Exactly, particularly as they get more tax payers money pumped into them, than BR could ever dream of.

Passenger numbers rising has nothing to do with the fact that the railways are in private ownership. It would have happened anyway and at the end of BR the public owned railway ( our railway ). Was already starting to show a turn around in financial terms.

I am glad i never travel by train anymore. If all i could look forward to was a load of morons shouting into their mobile phones and hammering away at keyboards.

IKB.

 

[stovepipe]

...........morons shouting into their mobile phones...............

IKB.

telling anyone who will listen that "I'm ON the TRAIN".

Why???

:hehe:

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody

snip~Exactly, particularly as they get more tax payers money pumped into them, than BR could ever dream of.

I am glad i never travel by train anymore. If all i could look forward to was a load of morons shouting into their mobile phones and hammering away at keyboards. ~snip

IKB.

IKB, the vast majority of the money put into the railway system in Britain is for the track infrastructure which the government own. As the railways are once again a major part of the British transport infrastructure I do not think that many people object to government money being spent that way. After all, how much does the government spend on the roads.

A couple of years ago central government spent many millions of pounds on upgrading the roads around Bristol airport here in Somerset. The local authority also was required to contribute to the bill, bringing about an increase in the Council tax for all of us who live in the county. If they can spend money in that way for roads why not for the railways where incidentally many more people get the benefit.

Again IKB with reference to your posting, I cannot in any way understand your interpretation of a moron. The persons you are referring to are working people who are trying to organize their work and day from the Train they are traveling on. If you do not wish to see or hear people speaking on telephones or using keyboards you can always book an advance seat in the quiet coach on any HST which I believe is normally coach E. There you will not be disturbed.

A moron in my interpretation is a person who would not wish to get up in the morning and join those working people (just like myself) on the train in earning a living and contributing through their tax to the country. A moron is a person in my book who would rather stay in bed and getting state benefits for doing so.

I recognize that there is unemployment in Britain but there are also far too many people who do not wish to be employed. I left school at 15 with no qualifications whatsoever and started working as an assistant in a butchers shop and went on from there. Now with the age of 67 I am still working with my own business and have absolutely no sympathy for those who do not wish to work or even try to get the job and whose benefits I feel should be stopped for being morons.

As I stated in my original posting modern railway coaches are at peak times traveling offices for the thousands that are commuting, working and paying their way in Britain. It is not romantic in the sense of the old steam railways but it is part of how Britain competes in the modern world.

I have Been working in the office since 7 AM this morning and posting quickly while having a cup of coffee, and that's how it should be.

Bill

 

[rjhowie]

At the end of the proverbial day i am not sure which is best - State or Private. The railways did start however as private before it became 'ours'. So we can thank them for that. There was much to complain about re British Rail and State hands too. Monopolies can be like that infortunately and the massive rail cutbacks by Beeching were in the government's time. It is my understanding that the government is putting large sums into the obtaining of more carriages and that is a good thing of course. There is however too much confusion over the fare structure that leaves people puzzled and how to get the cheap ones, times, etc.

In my area when BR went there was a management buy out but I didn't see a lot of difference until more recently when another private lot took over and there have been improvements. To balance that one of the more successful companies somewhere elsw in Gt Britain (although subsidised too) is a State run one!

 

[gwyn1946]

MORONS!!!

Isambard and Stovepipe were right! I dont travel by rail all that often,but when travelling to London from Leeds if i have booked the quiete coach then thats what i expect it to be? On my last journey the train staff had just told passengers that if they wished to use mobiles then please go to the end of the coach to do so,within 1 minute of the announcement some "moron" 3 seats back was having a very loud mobile conversation! he and his wife were very put out when i pointed out that it was a quiete coach and that the announcement had just been made to that effect,so would he please leave the coach and hold his personal conversation elsewhere, as i and possibly 80other passengers did not wish to know his personal business which was why i had pre booked this coach!!
On one occasion i asked a solicitor sitting behind me to stop his conversation as i did not want to know how he intended to get rid of a memberof his staff!!
And do i have a mobile? yes, rarely used, usualy left in the glovebox of my car as i wont be ruled by that damn thing, and i would certainly not wish everybody else to hear my conversation, but it seems that when that little box rings peoples personalities change and they become oblivious to all others around them as their voices suddenly become louder as they tell the world their most personal problems!!!
We have become a very bad mannered and rude society in the way we use technology when we are in the company of other persons.If i am having a conversation with someone and their phone rings and they answer it and then start to converse i walk away,simple.
Now re. East Coast Trains,its an excellent service as was its predecesor GNR,but if you live in this part of the world you can get very fed up with always getting cascaded(read someone elses cast offs) not new stock,stand on Leeds City station and it can sometimes look like a Vintage meeting!!!
Just try some of this stock in the south east and see if they like it!!
The government could save a lot of jobs and a lot of commutor hassle by buying some replacement stock for lines like the Leeds-Harrogate-York service,
A journey on a Sunday morning a few weeks ago to Huddersfield from Leeds on a Hull, Leeds,Manchester Airport service saw everyone jamb packed into a 3 car DMU,and the mid afternoon return was the same,a common complaint!!not enough coaches,it was the same after a day out over the Settle and Carlisle,a 4pm something to Hull service could not accomodate all of the passengers,and along with 20 or so others we opted to wait over an hour for the next train,again only 3 coaches and all stops to Leeds,but at least we were first in to get a seat!!it was still standing room only when the train arrived at Skipton!!
It is good to see the popularity of train travel nowadays but longer and more modern stock is essential on a lot of routes.

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

I am a moron then am i Bill, because i don't get up in the morning and go to work. Because i live , no exist on £93.80 a week Invalidity Benefit ( anxiety, depression, agoraphobia, social disorder, panic attacks, IBS etc etc ). Also for your information more public money is used to prop up the TOCS, to make sure their shareholders get a decent screw.

Unlike you, i left school after taking my CSE & GCE exams at 16 and then gained entrance to the BR Apprentice Training Scheme, on the back of those exam results. Then did a 5 year Mechanical Engineering Apprenticeship ( one of the best heavy engineering apprenticeships in the world, at the time ). Finishing the 5 years with qualifications at HNC level.

But i am still a moron, because i don't appreciate idiots yakking on mobile phones 24\7 with no regards for other people ( oops i mean other morons ). Or using the train like a travelling office, these same people would be the first to moan if a couple of kiddies were being over noisy. Or a few lads having a beer were a bit loud.

I may be a moron, but i know who the bigger morons are.

IKB.

 

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody

I am a moron then am i Bill, because i don't get up in the morning and go to work. Because i live , no exist on £93.80 a week Invalidity Benefit ( anxiety, depression, agoraphobia, social disorder, panic attacks, IBS etc etc ). Also for your information more public money is used to prop up the TOCS, to make sure their shareholders get a decent screw.

Unlike you, i left school after taking my CSE & GCE exams at 16 and then gained entrance to the BR Apprentice Training Scheme, on the back of those exam results. Then did a 5 year Mechanical Engineering Apprenticeship ( one of the best heavy engineering apprenticeships in the world, at the time ). Finishing the 5 years with qualifications at HNC level.

But i am still a moron, because i don't appreciate idiots yakking on mobile phones 24\7 with no regards for other people ( oops i mean other morons ). Or using the train like a travelling office, these same people would be the first to moan if a couple of kiddies were being over noisy. Or a few lads having a beer were a bit loud.

I may be a moron, but i know who the bigger morons are.

IKB.

IKB, I think if you read my post you refer to, you will find that I I spoke of people that did not wish to work, not people like yourself who are unable to work. I have every respect for people who suddenly find they are unable to complete their active working lives due to ill health. However, as I stated I have no respect for those who with every intent do not wish to even start their working life but would rather live on state benefits.

That said, I would also ask you to respect those who are working even if that be on a train early in the morning setting up their day in conference on the phone or tapping their laptops sending e-mails. These are the people that through their taxes keep the health service and benefit system going so that those less fortunate can have the support they have worked for and deserve.

Gwyn1946 I am sorry to hear of your experience in the quiet coach of an HST but unfortunately trains are public transport and we cannot choose who we sit near to. I have never had much experience in the quiet coaches as I must admit I like the chatter and vibrance of the standard class coaches or better still the buffet car when I have completed my own work on the evening return journey.

Since I have had my galaxy tablet computer together with my music collection on it one formula I have found for getting rid of annoying fellow passengers is to put my music on the speakers of the galaxy. I find a few tracks of the “James last orchestra ” from his 1970s albums such as “trumpets a go go” or “James last and the Hammond organ classics” soon as the annoying passenger looking for another seat.

Again, that said, mobile phones and texting or even e-mails are the way the vast majority communicate these days. Sometimes this is used in good context sometimes bad but it is the modern way of communicating and it will not change now. If you travel on public transport you either have to live with it, stay at home or use the car. As stated, at the age of 67 I love it, will keep working as long as I can using it along with the vast majority these days.

Bill

 

[rjhowie]

I don't think most of us have any problem with people who are genuinely unable to work whether it is a mental or physical difficulty. They are not the problem.

However there are plenty - legions of those who do get large dish-outs on my and others taxes. My job and my voluntary work was in a challenging "deprived area". Modern housing mind you. The pubs and betting shop always did a roaring trade, Sky TV aerials everywhere. The local black hackney taxi rank was on a perpetual circle of taking folk home short distances. Fast Food deliveries - a selection of places. I recall an 18 year old girl telling me she lay in until lunchtime and wasn't that fazed about looking for a job. There plenty of whole families where not working is the accepted pattern and their State income runs into hundreds a week. They are the real scroungers not the genuine unwell and it is about time a government did something about it.

 

[wholbr]

I don't think most of us have any problem with people who are genuinely unable to work whether it is a mental or physical difficulty. They are not the problem.

However there are plenty - legions of those who do get large dish-outs on my and others taxes. My job and my voluntary work was in a challenging "deprived area". Modern housing mind you. The pubs and betting shop always did a roaring trade, Sky TV aerials everywhere. The local black hackney taxi rank was on a perpetual circle of taking folk home short distances. Fast Food deliveries - a selection of places. I recall an 18 year old girl telling me she lay in until lunchtime and wasn't that fazed about looking for a job. There plenty of whole families where not working is the accepted pattern and their State income runs into hundreds a week. They are the real scroungers not the genuine unwell and it is about time a government did something about it.

well said rj Howie. let's stop all the complaining about people who are working and paying their way particularly regarding using phones, laptops tabs etc on trains to assist their working lives and the efficiency of their companies.

It's high time that this country and government got stuck into those who do not wish to go to work or even look for a job. Those who are fit and been out of work for more than six months should be made to work in the community removing graffiti, clearing rubbish and doing other jobs the councils can no longer afford to pay for or have never had the money to pay for.

Let's get the work culture back into Britain then we wouldn't need so many European workers to come to Britain to fill the jobs that we are told British nationals do not wish to do. What total rubbish. let's give a cheer for all the thousands working in their mobile offices on the Trains tomorrow and A boot up the backside to those who do not wish to work alongside them in their occupations or any other occupation out of choice

Bill

 

[rjhowie]

The last lot in power constantly increased the welfare bill. It is almost like bribery. "Vote for us and we will dish out the cash". When you see the actual numbers claiming sickness benefit they are unbelievable. I have watched the person tapping a stick along the street for appearance and should be on the stage. A couple of months ago there was a report of a married couple with 3 children. The man worked and his wife did some part-time stuff. However the family next door with the same number of kids had neither parent working and rew in far more than the working man. These are multiplied everywhere. In many case runs into big money. And as for the Housing Benefit. Why should the government dish out extra money for a family to live in an area they couldn't afford if they were working like the rest of us??

I do hope that the government sticks to their plans. The noises we will hear will be the squeals of those that claim their "rights" but have no motivation to be positive. Thank goodness for the invention of Trainz where I can be away from the nonsense for a wee while!