Two REALLY Dumb Things I Noticed with 2009

[narrowgauge]

My thoughts.

TS2009 works well for me, better than TRS2004 from a content creation point of view and much better than TRS2006. I thought I was a committed TRS2004 user, TS2009 changed that commitment. CM2 is a dream!

TS2009 still has weak spots but they seem to be fixed much faster then they ever were with previous versions. In my mind, this is not a game, it is a hobby, a very addictive one, and I do not expect instant satisfaction. If I did I would not have lasted since November 2001. Every release so far has required updates, why do we expect TS2009 to be perfect from the beginning.

Peter

 

[deeelare]

...snip...It mostly does what I want it to do. There are a few things I would like fixed or changed but they don't stop me from having fun. This might be pedantic but for those new to the game reading these sweeping statements could be forgiven if they thought the sky was falling when all we have is some rain, even it it is in the tunnels. :hehe:

Martinvk ,

From your above quote : 'MOSTLY does what I want it to do' , 'a FEW things I would like fixed or changed ', 'rain EVEN in the tunnels' .
My point is , you have experience with Trainz and have learned to bend with the breeze , as I have , to a new purchaser of TS2009 Auran must finish the job and make it a completed project , then move forward .
I very seldom criticize the Crew , as of today , I consider them the best , but we must continue to insist they comply and fix the problems the members are concerned with and complaing about !

And if I ever stop having fun with Trainz , all the members will rejoice , 'cause I''ll be gone !

And again , these are simply my thoughts --- ,DLR

 

[illinoiscentral]

deeelare's thoughts..."CENSORED":hehe:

 

[Euphod]

Yeah, you right Deelare, or at least entitled to your opinion. Auran's success with Trainz has always seemed just out of reach. Kind of like the Cubs...wait till next year!

 

[S301]

Hang on. You guys are saying that auran MUST make each release fully working, no need for service packs or updates or fixes, for newbies to be able to use the game? So, what about those of us that started with TRS04 (addmittedly, I started with UTC, but only really got into Trainz when 04 came out). 4 service packs... Those who started with TRS06, 1 service pack. So far with TS09, there has been (I think) 3 maybe 4 patches, including the 1 service pack. Many people have stayed on since TRS04 came out... So, my question is, what is the difference?

I guess I can answere my own question here. TS2009 has made some BIG changes. These changes have broken many things, many of which are being repaired as we speak. There are also many things that were broken so as to make Trainz move foreward... There are also errors, such as including the TRS06 manual. That said, there is so little that is different in the UI that it wouldn't really require a full new manual. An extra manual with the 'new stuff' for 09 would have been handy. Would have been handy to just rename it to 'manual' and change the first page to say that, although the TRS2006 manual, it is still mostly relevant.

I fully agree, TS09 should not really be going retail. It's going to be a pain for us, and the helpdesk, to try and provide support. But, since EE has been delayed, Auran do need the money to try and keep going with Trainz... Otherwise, we won't get any service packs and won't get an EE at all...

But I did take a look at the DLS last night. We now have 273 TS09 only assets. This is a good sign. Yes, it isn't a huge amount, but it does mean things are starting to move ahead!

Give it time, some patience, and some understanding that this is a work in progress (as EVERY other version of Trainz has been), and we will see TS2009 start to grow

Just my own thoughts on the matter.
Zec

 

[Euphod]

Hang on. You guys are saying that auran MUST make each release fully working, no need for service packs or updates or fixes, for newbies to be able to use the game?

Not what I'm saying. I'm saying Auran has released almost complete versions of Trainz for too long now. It wouldn't be as bad, but it seems like each new version breaks something that worked well in the LAST version. That's just wrong...

 

[narrowgauge]

Euphod

...something that worked well in the LAST version.

Your comment highlights the erroneous vew that so many seem to have. You should have said 'something that appeared to work well because the error checking was not severe enough and the program allowed faulty content to run'. If we are talking about content that does not work in 'compatabiity' mode then the errors must be horrendous

Every release so far brings up content that is in error. If you really want to point the bone at Auran, ask why from UTC onwards, they did not use the Content Dispatcher as a full blown error checker, it has been there all the time, unavoidable, essential for everyone to use and we would have none of the problems now.

In short, TS2009 is being blamed because the requirements are now more stringent and more content is shown to be faulty. Whose fault is that?

Peter

 

[Euphod]

Auran's fault, from the beginning, as far as content creation, hiding errors, allowing errors, allowing faulty content to be uploaded, not releasing documentation quickly enough, basically knowing the problem and not cutting it off even as the DLS bloats with more and more content dubiously checked at best.

 

[American_Connections]

What direction is up?

Not what I'm saying. I'm saying Auran has released almost complete versions of Trainz for too long now. It wouldn't be as bad, but it seems like each new version breaks something that worked well in the LAST version. That's just wrong...

Not really a move forward, is it!

 

[JCitron]

Auran's fault, from the beginning, as far as content creation, hiding errors, allowing errors, allowing faulty content to be uploaded, not releasing documentation quickly enough, basically knowing the problem and not cutting it off even as the DLS bloats with more and more content dubiously checked at best.

I agree with you, Ed. Auran should have put a hold on uploading to the DLS while the Content Creators, or even Auran staff had a chance to fix or update the content instead of ignoring the problem. They only propagated the errors by supplying error-prone content themselves in the beginning. Afterall, where are the content creators going to get the "correct" config file format from? The original developer of course.

To make matters worse, the error checking was zilch under previous versions of Trainz so that many errors such as outright typos in config files were ignored. These errors caused all kinds of performance issues because of the continuous parsing needed by the program to ignore the errors and load the content.

Now that we have better error checking, these errors are obvious. This makes the product look bad, but it's not the product that is bad; it's the original content as was supplied and never repaired as well as other content that was based on the orginal configuration files. To add insult to injury, the content creators were never given the full specifcations of the configuration files in due time so when they created content, what was once acceptable under previous versions wasn't quite right under the new, and there were new items added that could now have additional errors. Then to make matters worse, the lack of error checking caused these new errors to multiply in number because they were never flagged by anyone as being faulty.

Over the course of past 2 months, I spent about 40 hours repairing many assets in my local folder. I am down to about 80, which I can't fix due to missing animation points, or the textures are so-called bad. If the Dev-team can solve the texture.txt error, where the texture is there but can't load, then many of my "broken" items will be fixed. The animation issue, well that's a different story. If there was a way to ignore animation-point problems then things would be even better.

John

 

[john259]

These errors caused all kinds of performance issues because of the continuous parsing needed by the program to ignore the errors and load the content.

I suspect that the number of additional machine code instructions that need to be obeyed in order to work around config.txt errors is trivially insignificant compared to the number involved with handling the 3D graphics in Trainz.

John

 

[johnwhelan]

I suspect that the number of additional machine code instructions that need to be obeyed in order to work around config.txt errors is trivially insignificant compared to the number involved with handling the 3D graphics in Trainz.

John

But I do recall seeing a post from the brew crew saying that content errors had an impact on performance, this maybe because the defaults that were used for one reason or another were not the most performance friendly.

Cheerio John

 

[john259]

But I do recall seeing a post from the brew crew saying that content errors had an impact on performance, this maybe because the defaults that were used for one reason or another were not the most performance friendly.

Cheerio John

Yes, there could well have been a knock-on effect in some cases - but not for most syntax errors, such as those auto-corrected by Trainz Objectz, I would have thought.

John

 

[Euphod]

I agree with you, Ed. Auran should have put a hold on uploading to the DLS while the Content Creators, or even Auran staff had a chance to fix or update the content instead of ignoring the problem. They only propagated the errors by supplying error-prone content themselves in the beginning. Afterall, where are the content creators going to get the "correct" config file format from? The original developer of course.

To make matters worse, the error checking was zilch under previous versions of Trainz so that many errors such as outright typos in config files were ignored. These errors caused all kinds of performance issues because of the continuous parsing needed by the program to ignore the errors and load the content.

Now that we have better error checking, these errors are obvious. This makes the product look bad, but it's not the product that is bad; it's the original content as was supplied and never repaired as well as other content that was based on the orginal configuration files. To add insult to injury, the content creators were never given the full specifcations of the configuration files in due time so when they created content, what was once acceptable under previous versions wasn't quite right under the new, and there were new items added that could now have additional errors. Then to make matters worse, the lack of error checking caused these new errors to multiply in number because they were never flagged by anyone as being faulty.

Over the course of past 2 months, I spent about 40 hours repairing many assets in my local folder. I am down to about 80, which I can't fix due to missing animation points, or the textures are so-called bad. If the Dev-team can solve the texture.txt error, where the texture is there but can't load, then many of my "broken" items will be fixed. The animation issue, well that's a different story. If there was a way to ignore animation-point problems then things would be even better.

John

Have you ever read a post that expressed your thoughts better than you could? This is it, for me.

I fixed thousands of errors when I transfered content from 2004 to 2006. When I moved the same items to TC, I fixed even more. Items I could not fix were deleted, and I end up trying to fix the same items when they are redownloaded with a route from the DLS. I moved all my content into 2009, and of course, it blew up with hundreds of more warnings and errors and faults!

The dedicated Trainzer will acquire many versions of the game in hopes of improvement, and the game does improve; but sadly at the cost of the content. Each time the Trainzer has to fix a few hundred pieces of content he gets a little more disgruntled. Look at the massive number of members that fought 2006 for this very reason, many still use 2004 today. That's where they drew the line. I drew mine at 2006, and while I still aquired TC and 2009, I will not use them. I will not buy another version until I read on these forums a preponderance of happy, effluent, nay gushing posts about how wonderful the new version is, how everything works, and how nothing that used to work was broken.

Everyone has his limits, and there are fine dedicated Trainzers (more so than I) working hard at Trainzdev to make this everything it can be. I admire and respect them, and as a consumer will patiently wait now until they achieve their goal.

I'll be the guy playing 2006.

 

[martinvk]

It never ceases to amaze me to read that people are surprised that not all content from a previous version works without any problems in a newer version.
For that to be true it would mean that either the new version was only a minor upgrade over the old one or that the creators were prescient and were able to build objects according to future standards before they were published or otherwise known.

Since I doubt either is true, I never expected to have flawless object transitions, just because they all have the word Trainz in their names?

Look at all the other software out there that undergoes major version changes and then orphans many of their previous data. We should be happy that so much of our previous content does work. We're always asking for more features, better performance etc. If sometimes the price is that some older content is not compatible, so be it.

I think that some of this expectation can be placed at Auran's door. Looking at some of the past marketing hype, the impression is often given that the transition would be smooth, that all of the previous content would work without any problems. Exaggeration - sure but then show me marketing claims which are not. Sad but true - welcome to the cutthroat world of software.

 

[Euphod]

It never ceases to amaze me to read that people are surprised that not all content from a previous version works without any problems in a newer version.
For that to be true it would mean that either the new version was only a minor upgrade over the old one or that the creators were prescient and were able to build objects according to future standards before they were published or otherwise known.

Since I doubt either is true, I never expected to have flawless object transitions, just because they all have the word Trainz in their names?

Look at all the other software out there that undergoes major version changes and then orphans many of their previous data. We should be happy that so much of our previous content does work. We're always asking for more features, better performance etc. If sometimes the price is that some older content is not compatible, so be it.

I think that some of this expectation can be placed at Auran's door. Looking at some of the past marketing hype, the impression is often given that the transition would be smooth, that all of the previous content would work without any problems. Exaggeration - sure but then show me marketing claims which are not. Sad but true - welcome to the cutthroat world of software.

Oh, I don't expect it all to work, or work flawlessly. And far be it for me to cease amazing you!:hehe:

What they should do is release enough content with each version that works correctly, that are made to the new standards (so content creators can use the config as an example), and that aren't filled with the same mistakes that just being overlooked by the program because they are built in objects.

You say what you like about other games, but every other game I know is playable out of the box, and has native content (usually some new content) that works. This business of relying on the community for content should end, UNLESS the program will be more forgiving.

Oh wait....that was 2004 wasn't it?