Turntable size and use

[AntonyVW]

Ive been studying an old map of a station in Southampton UK heading towards the dock area (map is dated 1870 and can be seen on the old-maps.co.uk site). And Ive become intrigued by a terminus station which has 2 platforms but 4 lines running through it. Fairly ordinary I know But what Im interested in is the fact that half way down the platforms each of the 4 tracks has a turntable on it. With a further 2 at the end of the station on the center 2 tracks. Now obviously they are not big enough for turning engines, they look to be about the size of those used for turning trucks. So what I want to know is how big are they and what is their use in such a position? And does anyone know of any such sized turntables on the dls? (I am already aware that there are a couple of wagon turntables).
I had thought it might have been a goods terminal but a ticket office is clearly marked so I know its a passenger station.

Antony

 

[cascaderailroad]

You can measure one using Google Earth, or measure your favorite loco, and find the correct size

 

[JCitron]

Anthony,

I believe these turntables were used to turn carriages or wagons. I recall seeing some old photographs somewhere of wagons being turned around on tiny turntables. They were controlled manually by some men pushing on some kind of sticks or handles. These things were also used to align the wagon in another direction, such as going into a warehouse or siding.

John

 

[AntonyVW]

Anthony,

I believe these turntables were used to turn carriages or wagons. I recall seeing some old photographs somewhere of wagons being turned around on tiny turntables. They were controlled manually by some men pushing on some kind of sticks or handles. These things were also used to align the wagon in another direction, such as going into a warehouse or siding.

John

Ive seen pictures of those to and understand how they wrk, but the ones Im refering to on the map are on main running lines half way down the length of a station. There are no other directions for them to go in they just sit in the middlew of the lines. I can understadn them turning wagons but in the middle of a station? That I dont understand.

 

[bendorsey]

At a guess they turn the passenger wagons so when folks are sitting in the seats they are facing in the direction of the trains movement. Most folks like to see where they are going as opposed to where they have been, lol.

BTW I made a series of very small turntables for broad gauge. If one or two look promising I can modify them for std ga.

Ben

 

[edh6]

I doubt it was for turning passenger stock, as even early carriages had seats pointing both ways in the same compartment. Looking at the map I can't really give a reason for them to be there, the only thing I can think of is for moving wagons and maybe 4 wheel carriages from the platform road to the inside road once loading has been completed. Howver this does not explain all of the visible turntables

 

[bendorsey]

Your probably right. I just remembered some seats were setup so the backs could be reversed so folks could sit facing in either direction as they chose.

Ben

 

[AntonyVW]

Thanks for the replies guys. There is one request Ben, regarding the wagon turntables. The ones Ive found all have 4 exits on the compass points. Would it be possible to create one which has more choices? Like the bigger loco turntables? If you have managed to take a look at the station I mentioned it has several of these turntables where they would equate to having them on the hour - ie 12 points to contect to. Not being in the know about these things I have no idea whether it would be possible at that size?

 

[teddytoot]

Antony, can you give the link to the actual map as going to the site didn't help me. I assume you are referring to the original Southampton
Terminus Station. Turntables like this appeared to be quite common on early railways and there are similar ones shown on the plan of the original Weymouth station here. My assumption is that they were for manhandling goods wagons which in early days were quite short.

 

[edh6]

I hope this works...

 

[drphlox]

one thing to keep in mind is that by the late 1800's a lot of stations were being rebuilt/repositioned and a large amount of obsolete/unused infrastructure may of been present when a map/plan was made and was removed shortly after when it was no longer required or was in the way of further improvements to a station.

 

[edh6]

You could be right, as according to the disused stations site, the goods shed to the east was fairly new at the time the map was made, and the turntables could be relics of previous goods handling within the station itself

 

[teddytoot]

Thanks for the plan. A good description of the history of Southampton Terminus/Docks station can be found in Southampton Railways by Bert Moody (Atlantic 1992). He refers to the turntables as coach/wagon turntables so probably the very early short wheelbase 4w coaches could be turned and moved between lines by manual labour. By modern standards they were light, manual labour was cheap and no Health and Safety to worry about and valuable locos need not be wasted on shunting. Also arrival and departure platforms were separate hence the need to move coaches. As well, trains in the early days were not that long.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Why would you want to turn a coach or a railcar ? They are ambidextrous < You know what I mean.

 

[PWeiser]

Why would you want to turn a coach or a railcar ? They are ambidextrous < You know what I mean.

They may mean the turntables are used in place of switches/points: unlink a short coach while it's on the table, turn 90 degrees, turn the next track's turntable to face that one (or the next several when they're in a line), push the coach onto the next turntable, turn it again - like a crossover, but in almost zero length. Also, with link and pin or chain couplings there's no need to get slack before turning a coach out of the middle of a train - or very little slack, just enough to pull the pin. (Might they also have used horses or mules instead of men for motive power?)

 

[AntonyVW]

Im glad Im not the only one to have found their position a little confusing. However Im going to go with the consensus that they were there to turn or move coaches/wagons from one line to the other. I have to say that Im finding looking at these old maps and the station layouts as they change to be fascinating. Im currently reading a book on a line that was not to far from us which details why the line was built and its eventual closure as the traffic declined. I just wish that history at school could have been as interesting.