Tunnels And Tracks Question

[HillbillyHobo]

I'm curious to why the tunnels do not move like the other splines?

I can lay splines of track, power poles, fencing, invisible track in a straight line, even if it's not lining up with the graph lines, and I can use the straightening tab as well.

1. So why is it that the tunnel is a spline, but it doesn't act like the rest of the splines, and why are the ends always curved, with no way of straightening them?

2. Why are these tunnels even being created if they can't be run straight, or be straightened?


I did not realize until lately that this game is not being run by a company, but by a small staff, and many independent creators. It easy to see how things can get out of hand, if everyone is creating routes to make money, and no one is governing anything, or running quality checks, to make sure there are no issues. It appears that more is going into pushing the new softwares, and routes, rather than fixing the current problems. (you can go without changing the oil in your car, but when you wait to long to change it, and your engine seizes up, you now have more than just an oil problem)

Like I said before, a game is supposed to be easy use, and fun to play, but this has all become too frustrating for me. I'm not knocking anyone personally who is on here about anything they're doing, I'm just trying to understand with all these gurus on here, that we don't have a tunnel spline that works like the rest of the splines?

 

[stagecoach]

Double-track and double-track tunnels have never been able to use the straighten tool. Straighten can only be applied to a single track. The double track is two single tracks attached to a spline to make it a double-track spline. Each of those tracks is fixed at each end so are unable to stretch independently from each other when in a curve.

 

[HillbillyHobo]

It's the singletrack tunnels that will not straighten and have a hook on the end that cannot be straighten out even when attaching a track to it. The doubles do it too. I have about a dozen tunnels in my 2012 content, and all of them do the same 'S' shape when stretching them. Even straightening it out with the nodes, still leaves the ends with a curl to them. It's confusing when all the other splines assets can be straightened, but the tunnels can't.

I've been told to use the dig holes, but they only line up to the graph as well leaving large holes at the opening, and no tunnel entrances that match up to mountain scenes. I'm still left without an answer to the question "Why the tunnels are on the DLS if they can't be straightened?" Seems like it was a waste of time for the ones who created them, if they can't be used properly?

What is so special about the tunnel specs that they cannot be a spline that straightens? Can we not use a formula from one of the splines that straighten, to use on the tunnel splines? I know there is more to it than just a simple copy and paste of config files, but it does seem like it would be an easy thing to fix.

I should not have to be rearranging my 30 mile northern mountain range in my layout to accommodate a tunnel, because it can't be straightened.

 

[JCitron]

As explained, tunnels normally snap to the grid. To avoid this, use built-to-order tunnels by assembling pieces together.

There are loads of tunnel assets that you can use including tunnel entrances to block the gaps created by the difference between the square grid and the angle that the tunnel entered.

You put in the tunnel pieces, such as the walls for example which are just splines into place.

You lay your track inside the tunnel at the same height as the spline.

You then place dig-holes at the end of the tunnel where you want it to exit the ground.

Once the hole is dug, you then find an entrance that works. There are some really nice ones on the DLS that work quite well. This isn't the perfect solution, but it is what it is because as I've said before tunnels suck. Hopefully, if N3V holds to their word we may have improved tunnels at some point in the future (tm).

 

[HillbillyHobo]

"When one's word does not match one's actions, then one's word has no value."

So let me get this straight....we seem to have many issues with the older softwares, and yet new softwares keep coming out for us to buy, but the issues from the older software we have purchased are not being addressed like the tunnels for instance.

This website seems more like a farmer's market for routes and other paywares, yet it's people like me who buy these games and routes, but without a properly working game and DLS, why would I want to buy anything? This is just an observation.

 

[JCitron]

"When one's word does not match one's actions, then one's word has no value."

So let me get this straight....we seem to have many issues with the older softwares, and yet new softwares keep coming out for us to buy, but the issues from the older software we have purchased are not being addressed like the tunnels for instance.

This website seems more like a farmer's market for routes and other paywares, yet it's people like me who buy these games and routes, but without a properly working game and DLS, why would I want to buy anything? This is just an observation.

Many programs are like this. I can name some really big ones too such as those by Adobe where there are issues with the program that have existed since version 2.0 but have never been addressed yet there are so many new features that the program just about cooks a Thanksgiving dinner for us without help including going to the supermarket and picking up the food.

Unfortunately, part of the reason why some things such as tunnels don't get repaired is compatibility and limitations of the current grid-terrain system. Unlike the competition, N3V's content has been moved from one version to the other. As much as this is a good thing, we're stuck with legacy issues such as the tunnels, 10-meter grid, and other quirky things. The trade-off, though, is the ability to bring in routes we created in TRS2004 back in 2003 and continue to work on them in future versions.

If N3V were to suddenly update tunnels, then hundreds of thousands of routes would be broken today. It's bad enough that we had to deal with that with Speed Trees, thanks to IDV not having an upgrade path for Speed Trees but losing a route completely because the format has changed would be totally unacceptable if not devastating to the user. This doesn't say that there are new things in the works. N3V is currently working on a new terrain grid. This will definitely help with tunnels and also a new tunneling and sound system. The problem is they have a very small team of workers unlike Adobe, who still couldn't get their issues straight, and these processes take time.

The website has never been their forte unfortunately. Again, gone are the days of Auran when there was a full staff of graphics designers and copy writers to do that front end.

The program isn't totally broken as you claim. There are quirky things that need working around, but that's true of many programs. If it is what you claim, then the Trainz franchise would've been buried years ago. The fact that it's still live and kicking for nearly 25 years says a lot about it quirks and all.

 

[clam1952]

Can be solved by using dig holes, stand alone tunnel Portals, Tunnel Linings without attached track and separate track splines, two splines for double track.

 

[HillbillyHobo]

Can be solved by using dig holes, stand alone tunnel Portals, Tunnel Linings without attached track and separate track splines, two splines for double track.

I guess you guys are missing the point I'm trying to make here.

I'm not whinning because the tunnels don't work, and I need to build a tunnel. I'm asking why isn't there someone fixing the tunnels that don't work?

If you look above, nobody has told me the 'why?', just solutions that require me to jump through hoops to make something that is broken work right.

That's the point I'm making here. The solution being used here is not to fix the bugs by having a tech person come in a get things in order, but it appears the solution here is to explain how to go to the DLS and download assets, change your script, in order to make something work. So now the consumer has to solve these problems by asking how, and having people chime in with a multiple hoop solution, or a smartass comment. Do you really think people are going to stay on here, and new people are going to join, if every time a problem occurs, the solution is for the customer to do all these things to fix it because someone at N3V dropped the ball, which brings me to this question.

If so many people on the forum here seem to know why something doesn't work properly, and can explain how to jump through all these hoops to fix it, then why hasn't someone permanently fixed it?

Who's going to buy your routes and payware items, if the game software doesn't work properly?

The more you let this go, the worse it's going to get. N3V needs to wake up. If you are going to place multi softwares on one DLS, and keep changing the platforms and languages, you had better have someone there to maintenance it, and not give the problem to the new members to fix. I'm sure most of us who joined up here to have fun, did not sign up to keep having to tread water by copying and pasting, switching out assets, and changing configs, just to keep our game afloat. We paid our money for a game that would work properly.

Saying that something 'sucks' on here is not going to put the fire out, or make one feel any better, it just only makes one wonder if all this is really worth the trouble.

In my day your reputation meant everything, but in today's world reputation appears to have vanished. You only get out what you put in, and if N3V is not going to put in, then what do they expect to get out of it. With the extortion of the gold card, to limiting route downloads, as well as 5kbs download speed, it's not making the entrance to the N3V house look warm and welcoming.

I've always said "if it ain't broke, then don't fix it, but never had I applied "if it's broke, then don't fix it."
Would you take your car back to a mechanic who didn't fix the problem in your car, or do you take it to another mechanic?

N3V has competition out there, and if they are not careful, someone else is going to take the helm.

 

[jjslll54]

If I understand your issue, you are trying to make a tunnel that snaps to the grid do something it can't do, which is make a straight line while going at an angle to the grid. The only way to get a straight tunnel with this asset to to follow the grid in a straight line. Not sure if a 45 degree tunnel will make a straight line. This has always been an issue with tunnels that are locked to the grid. The best way to make a tunnel was mentioned above. There are single track tunnel splines that lay just like any other track spline. You lay from point A to point B. If the tunnel is long enough to have several spline points, you should be able to use the straighten tool between two spline points. As mentioned above, when you have the tunnel the way you want, use a dig hole to open the grid on each end of the tunnel, then find a tunnel portal to cover the dig hole and fit it to the end of your tunnel. The portals will act like a building in that you can turn it in any direction and raise or lower it as needed. My current route has over thirty tunnels done in this manner. Hope this helps. I don't think very many still use the snap grid tunnels any more. Too confining on how to construct your tunnel. Oh, and if you want multitrack tunnels use Johns suggestion of using retaining walls or other types of walls for the sides and top. This is how you would do it if you were building a model railroad layout in your garage. It's the fun part of construction and gives a satisfying feeling when you get it just right.

Jack

 

[HillbillyHobo]

Wow....I can't believe you guys are still trying to tell me how to create tunnels, when that is not the point I'm making here. Are you guys not reading what I'm writing in this thread?

Let me try it this way then....

I started with a 2010 when I joined up here. I started having trouble getting the 2010 to work properly, and was told it was being faded out, and that I should buy the 2012. So I purchased the TRS2012 from this website.

Somewhere around 2017 Windows XP browser no longer works on the web, so now I'm left with good gaming computer that can no longer connect to gaming sites because they don't recognize XP anymore. I have 2 laptops for my sound and light show, and neither of them have a graphic card even close to play a game like this, so I am stuck until I can save enough money to buy a new gaming computer.

So I'm building routes on a computer that is not connected to the internet, which means I'm using mostly what is built-in to the game. I hope you all understand so far?

I purchased TRS2012, which means everything on the game should work right....right? Still with me?

At the moment I'm working on a mountain range, which I am needing to add some tunnels throughout the range. There are about dozen built-in tunnels to pick from on the game that are single track and are setup to be a spline for stretching.

Now here's the point I'm making....these tunnels that are built into the game, you cannot use a straightening tab on them, and if you drag them diagonal they become an 'S' shape with fishhook entrances that you cannot straighten with nodes points. So this means that these tunnels do not work unless you are square with the graph lines, and we all know mountains don't run with graph lines.

Now all the other splines like power poles, fences, and roads do, but the tunnels don't....and that was my question. (Why don't they work like the other splines?)

I appreciate all the info about the tunnels, and other help that you guys have offered to me.

But what's frustrating me is the solution to fixing this is for me to go on an easter egg hunt for tunnel kits, which I'm told there are some nice ones on the DLS. But if I have the lowest software on the DLS, new items will not work, and who is putting out 3.7 build TRS2012 stuff? Which I might add the creator only creates 3.4 builds, when it should be creating 3.7 builds, and I have been left to fix that one too.

So now that I've been asking the whys, I'm being told the TRS2012 sucks, it was the worse one, and I should upgrade. Now I'm hearing the N3V tunnel suck too, but yet N3V keeps putting out new software

Now if you build something from the ground up, you are going to know every part of your creation, and how every part works. So why is there not any fixes to these issues. Does this mean N3V built something and don't know how it works to fix it, or are they just slapping another coat of paint over the water stain hoping it will make it go away?

I'm upset that I purchased a game from here, and it doesn't work properly, and now it's up to me to try and find the assets to fix these issues instead of N3V fixing the problems. I would love to purchase a later software, but if the issues on the one I purchased is not being addressed, why would I want to purchase another.

I'm only making an observation here, because things do not fix themselves, and the problem should not be given to the customer paying out the money. Am I not paying the money because of all the work put into it?

So please stop sending me tunnel info guys

 

[Forester1]

I don't have an answer to why they don't work like other splines, except that as mentioned above, some are locked to the grid, and some are not. N3V is no longer updating 2012. They are multiple versions ahead, and it is like you said, Microsoft isn't updating old versions of Windows either. I recently purchased 2012, but I did it understanding that I was getting what is there, the good and the bad. There are still a lot of assets being made for versions 3.5 and 3.7, in fact several asset creators are still creating in 2012. If you sort DLS by upload date, you will find half or even more of the daily uploads are 3.5 - 3.7. As did I, you are paying for what is there, what was created a decade ago, and has not been updated for some time. It may be a valid question why they still sell versions they no longer support, but I am glad they do, and now I can convert older routes with Pofig and other obsolete trees to other trees with bulk replace. But I don't expect them to fix issues that exist in that version, because that water went under the bridge years ago. I don't expect Ford to fix the problematic Mach stereo system they put into my 2004 Mustang either, even though it blew out one of my speakers. Ford is not offering to fix it for me whether free or I even pay for it.