TS2010EE FRIENDLY Route Discussion

StorkNest

Stop that, its just silly
The website lists:
New and Upgraded Routes*
Included in the TS2010:EE Release will be several new routes for you to explore as well as improvements to routes you're all used to. These include:
ECML Doncaster Peterborough
Milwaukee Road Avery Drexel
ECML Doncaster Cleethropes Hull
CN Holly Subdivision
Conrail Lincoln Secondary
CSX Saginaw Subdivision
Detriot Connecting Railroad
Harbor Master
Port Ogden and Northern
* Route list subject to change
Emphasizing the last part, I don't know if or how much community opinion matters but for fun let's see what opinions the posting public has on this subject only.

Anything else about TS2010EE you want to say, there's, what, 5 topics to post in and growing? This isn't one of them.

I acknowledge there was a call for routes and these appear to be ones that were submitted. However other routes have been released since then and maybe some non-English speaking users didn't understand the topic.

Personal opnion:

First I'll state any routes in TS2010EE should be, "new," meaning, "not all the TS2009WBE Builtin routes." I know this sounds like the Classics premise but it isn't, simply that with comments on TS2009WBE purchasers stating, "where's the beef?" like the lady in the old Wendy's commercial, not including TS2009WBE routes gives part of the feeling that money wasn't wasted.

ECML Doncaster Peterborough
ECML Doncaster Cleethropes Hull
UK routes? Not familiar with them but looks like 2 routes from the same railroad given ECML. I would remove one and replace with a different UK route from either another UK railroad, a generic UK theme or something else.

Milwaukee Road Avery Drexel
CN Holly Subdivision
Conrail Lincoln Secondary
CSX Saginaw Subdivision
Detriot Connecting Railroad
Five USA routes. Hey, I love my country but 5 is overkill for a world release of the product. I respect Chris but 3 of his routes should be removed, 2 from the USA is enough. I only suggest three of his for creator variety and I think the Milwaukee Road one is in Montana-Idaho? A different reigon.

Harbor Master
Port Ogden and Northern
Two generic routes, I call them this because I always see philskene running content from various world locations on his routes. Should be mentioned so anyplace that feels left out could either use them or modify them to their area. I will say fairly that if there is another generic route good enough from another creator, then drop one, no offense to phil, just think it would be good to have a variety of creators represented.

I do think there should be one model type layout, Trainz has a lot of prototype routes and fans but it has the ability to make and run model layouts that most other sinulators I know of don't or don't try to.

Another option is a generic subway/tram/electric route. None of the ones listed have this to my knowledge and not counting Classics, Trainz has always had a route of this kind as a Builtin. I'd really like to see native mode caternary on a route combining freight and passenger even if the passenger is trams/light rail.

An Austrailian company without an Aussie route? C'mon! I know this route list was based on submissions from topics back in June but no representation of home?

Finally 2-3 routes from other areas like Europe and Eastern Asia. Europe has a fan base and there was a group following at least one thread on Chinese or Japanese routes plus some new TS2009 items on DLS are from that region.

No suggestions because I don't have a route and don't suggest other users' content.
 
The potential routes leave me lukewarm. This is mainly because I like to make my own but even if that was not the case, it's a pity that the world variety is so ... limited. Having started several, I know how difficult it is to get everything just right but is this really the best that could be found or is it only the best that was submitted? If they were meant to showcase the potential of TS2009 and now TS2010 perhaps it is more a reflexion of just how difficult it is to make a really great route. Either way, I salute those who made them and would encourage others. :)
 
In my opinion, I don't mind having 5 USA routes, but what I find is pretty odd is that they are all Chrisracer routes, and alot of them are in the same state.
 
but is this really the best that could be found or is it only the best that was submitted?
Here you go:
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=42673
If you have a TrainzDev login, you can check the link in the first message there too.

Just realized
Classics 1 - US route
Classics 2 - Generic tram route
Classics 3 - UK route
TS2010EE - US, UK, generic routes = overbloated Classics
How well did Classics sell worldwide?
I love USA and North America mainly but I don't want another Classics product.
 
I remember the call on TrainzDev was thinking, wow, that is some shopping list.
It's a wonder that anyone was able to fulfill all or even most of the requirements.

One of them,
# We prefer routes that are relevant to a larger market segment.
I suppose it all depends on how you define the larger market. Still I wonder if it is not too late to hope that some other regions as near enough to completion to be considered for inclusion in the released product? :eek:
 
I'm excited to see the ECML route. I do have an inquiry about the ECML route.

Who is the author of it[ECML route]? Puffernutter? or the Deltic Preservation Society? And I noticed that the route is diced into two, shouldn't it be ECML: Peterborough to Hull? as opposed to Peterborough-Doncaster and Doncaster-Cleethorpes-Hull? Anyways, it'd give Peter's 222s a nice route to run on. A big fan of British railways, I do think that there should be another UK route or two. Seeing that the ECML(Eastcoast Mainline) route constitutes 1. I've never tried Chrisracer's routes, only except his Surfliner route, which would be nice if updated along the line(I was updating it through his permission, I think i'll get back to updating it, esp. with the new Tree doohickey)

@storknest: EE comes with ALL past Trainz routes(excl. Settle & Carlisle unfortunately), including the ones you specified above. There are a few routes from Europe, including the Eastern European route that was released with WBE(I forgot what the title was called), a few German-themed routes, and a few French-themed routes. I think though, that the release after 2010(provided people settle into their specific installment), there will be possibility that newer, different routes may be released(TSX maybe?). And on the East Coast Mainline issue, as I said above, its actually one mainline/route, just diced into two unneccesary pieces(unless there are certain circumstances and they needed to be released in seperate pieces).
 
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Strictly speaking, Doncaster to Hull is not the ECML, it's a cross country route that branches off it. However both that and the Doncaster to Peterborough section are fairly flat so far as scenery is concerned. Operationally reasonably interesting but high speed operation on a complex main line is not best suited to Trainz method of AI self despatching and lack of centralised control.

If they'd asked, I would have tarted up one of my West Highland routes - and not asked for a penny in return (well, maybe a free copy of 2010 and S&C ;) ).

Can't say I'm familiar with the US routes but they don't really have the "wow" factor of something like Tehachapi, Moffat or Cajon.

Would have been nice to see a bit more regional variety, maybe a section of German or Austrian route - something like the Semmering Line which combines a fast section and mountain running. Or Lubeck to Puttgarden in the 80's - stamping ground for old DB diesel hydraulics, UIC coaches and the train ferry operation at Puttgarden. A Swiss route would have added interest, to my knowledge no one has attempted either the Lotchsberg or Gotthard route for Trainz as yet - either of which would be a real crowd pleaser in a reworked release.

Does make me wonder then whether the routes were actually commissioned or in the rush to get TS2010 ready a couple of willing contributors had their arms twisted to tart up their existing projects...
 
My guess is that when Auran asked for route builders who were willing to update their routes to TS2009 standards about two months ago, these guys took up the challenge. Auran isn't paying them anything I'd bet except maybe a free couple of TS2010.

William
 
Tehachapi and Cajon Routes

Can't say I'm familiar with the US routes but they don't really have the "wow" factor of something like Tehachapi, Moffat or Cajon.

Why couldn't a deal have been done with the guys at TrainzProRoutes? they made some great stuff including Tehachapi! I would definitely pay for Tehachapi and Cajon with scenarios with great engines and rolling stock and industries.

Come back TPR guys, come baaaaaacccccckkkkkkk!!!
 
How many "new" ECML routes should come with the game. I only have 1, Doncaster - Granthan - Peterborough - London.

I don't see Hull anywhere.

I do see an older HST route but I haven't tried it yet.

I really like the 125, now I realise too much throttle when you pull away actually makes it very slow!
 
How many "new" ECML routes should come with the game. I only have 1, Doncaster - Granthan - Peterborough - London.

I don't see Hull anywhere.

I do see an older HST route but I haven't tried it yet.

I really like the 125, now I realise too much throttle when you pull away actually makes it very slow!

There is only one ECML route in 2010 and that's York to London Kings Cross.

Off this mainline, is routes to Thorne, from Doncaster, where it splits to Hull and Cleethorpes.

At Newark is a link to Lincoln and Cleethorpes

At Peterborough is a link to Skegness

The reason you might not "See" these, is because the level crossings are broken on some of the branch lines, see previous posts about this issue.
 
Coming from Cleethorpes, as I do, I'm very much looking forward to this route. I can even pretend that there's still a direct train from Kings Cross to Cleethorpes!

Paul
 
Coming from Cleethorpes, as I do, I'm very much looking forward to this route. I can even pretend that there's still a direct train from Kings Cross to Cleethorpes!

Paul

Ditto, as I come from that part of the world as well, that's why I built that part of the route :)
 
One thing that chefbyte missed is also the ' Joint line' which runs from Peterborough, Spalding, Lincoln, Gainsbrough and rejoins the ECML at Black Carr junc Doncaster.

The Skegness line in fact starts at Barkston Junc just north of Grantham (after the tunnel) to Sleaford, Boston and Skeggy.

Stuart
ECML Team leader
 
One thing that chefbyte missed is also the ' Joint line' which runs from Peterborough, Spalding, Lincoln, Gainsbrough and rejoins the ECML at Black Carr junc Doncaster.

The Skegness line in fact starts at Barkston Junc just north of Grantham (after the tunnel) to Sleaford, Boston and Skeggy.

Stuart
ECML Team leader

Excellent! I was hoping Lincoln would be in there too. Loads of nice junctions in 1976. Hurry up Mr Postman.......
 
The joint is the bit I'm looking forward to seeing. Having seen it in the flesh since I handed of my half finished part of p'boro to sleaford to Hooverman to finish off.
 
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