TS2010 Thoughts So Far

Well if you think Auran is ripping you off ( i don't ).
Mike.
I agree.
If we were talking in hundreds of dollars about all this, it would be meaningful. But for the price of Trainz, which is about the same as one decent meal in a restaurant, I've had years of entertainment, for which I'm very grateful.
Mick Berg.
 
Okay. To you guys it may not be much. But try to keep in mind adults aren't the only ones playing this game.

Take for example the price of TS2009 now. It's £24.99. In current exchange rates that would be over $56 Singapore dollars and I will have you know it is over half my monthly allowance. As comparism Grand Theft Auto 4 was $70 at release and can now be gotten brand new at $60.

To you adults a new version of Trainz may be nothing but peanuts or cost about as much as a "dinner". I'm sorry, but my parents do not purchase my games for me. As such if I knew how the then-TS2009EE would turn out I would have patiently waited for it. By the way Mick Berg, I've been running TS2009 for less than a year.

Yes, Auran needs financial support and seeing all the patriots who have defended its name I am sure there are many others who have the financial capability to do so.

Just compare GTA4 and Trainz. I have GTA4, Lost & Damned and in a short while the Ballad of Gay Tony. A tad expensive but it is well worth it. While Trainz is also loads of fun, a $56 price tag is, in my books, still unjustifiable. And why do I still buy it knowing it'll come with the same crappy routes that I bought in TRS2006, cost me even more if I want to download some reasonable content off the DLS before the end of time and has no bounding boxes to speak of? Frankly, I don't know.

But if I did and I wasn't born into a silver spoon, then I don't see why I should be referred to as being unreasonable over TS2010.


Nicholas.
 
Okay. To you guys it may not be much. But try to keep in mind adults aren't the only ones playing this game.

Take for example the price of TS2009 now. It's £24.99. In current exchange rates that would be over $56 Singapore dollars and I will have you know it is over half my monthly allowance. As comparism Grand Theft Auto 4 was $70 at release and can now be gotten brand new at $60.

To you adults a new version of Trainz may be nothing but peanuts or cost about as much as a "dinner". I'm sorry, but my parents do not purchase my games for me. As such if I knew how the then-TS2009EE would turn out I would have patiently waited for it. By the way Mick Berg, I've been running TS2009 for less than a year.

Yes, Auran needs financial support and seeing all the patriots who have defended its name I am sure there are many others who have the financial capability to do so.

Just compare GTA4 and Trainz. I have GTA4, Lost & Damned and in a short while the Ballad of Gay Tony. A tad expensive but it is well worth it. While Trainz is also loads of fun, a $56 price tag is, in my books, still unjustifiable. And why do I still buy it knowing it'll come with the same crappy routes that I bought in TRS2006, cost me even more if I want to download some reasonable content off the DLS before the end of time and has no bounding boxes to speak of? Frankly, I don't know.

But if I did and I wasn't born into a silver spoon, then I don't see why I should be referred to as being unreasonable over TS2010.


Nicholas.

Nick,

I fully understand exactly what you're talking about. I too don't come from lots of money. Right now I am on unemployment, and nearly 50% of my paycheck covers my Parkinson's Disease medication. The cost of Trainz is the same as it costs me to put gasoline in my car. With Trainz though I get better mileage out of the purchase though. ;)

The thing is though I've spent a lot more on a lot less and felt more guilty about it. There are a ton of programs, and gadgets that I have purchased in the past that have ended up in the rubbish bin, or given away to someone just to get rid of them. I've been to some pretty fancy restaurants only to find the meal totally disgusting, and costing more than I used to take home in a week. I chocked those up as a loss, and remembered not to make that mistake again!

Trainz, even though it comes with the same routes before doesn't matter to me. I ran the built-in routes once when I first got TRS2004. After that I became a route builder. I couldn't give a fiddle about the built-in ones. I look at these as a base to build on. They prove that the program has a lot of potential to do a lot more than what is given to us initially. They also give a lot of people enjoyment as well. I know of many people who only play the built-in scenarios and sessions rather than create anything in Surveyor.

The same built-in content is very similar to many programs you purchase. Windows comes with Notepad, Wordpad, Paint, etc., which are the same programs as before. The only differences are in the interface to work with the new operating system. These versions of Trainz come with the same built-in foundation routes, but think of them as starters.

The good thing about TRS2009 and whatever version going forward is there is now more stuff integrated into the program so less needed to be searched for on the DLS. I found this out when I was installng TRS2009 and reimporting my downloaded content.

The physics and bounding boxes is something that may appear down the track at some point. As I've said before, I don't work for Auran so I don't know what their plans are. To implement this now would mean that all of the current rolling stock content would need to be recreated. Auran has had a tough enough time trying to convince content creators to fix stuff for TRS2009. Imagine all of the items on the DLS now needing bounding boxes. This doesn't include the extra scripting that maybe needed for the crumple zones, or physics when an object is knocked off the tracks or road. Don't get me wrong here. I too would love to see this stuff implemented at some point, but I'm pretty sure it won't happen soon.

You may do, or think what you wan't. No one here is stopping you from complaining or forcing you to upgrade.

John
 
As comparism Grand Theft Auto 4 was $70 at release and can now be gotten brand new at $60.
That's an interesting comparison. This is from the Reuters website.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Software publisher Take-Two Interactive Software Inc (TTWO.O) on Wednesday said it sold some 6 million units of its criminal action game "Grand Theft Auto 4" in its first week, with estimated retail sales exceeding $500 million.
The company, which is facing a takeover offer from rival Electronic Arts Inc (ERTS.O), said it sold about 3.6 million units globally at its debut on April 29.
Retail chains such as GameStop Corp (GME.N) and Best Buy Co Inc (BBY.N) took advance orders for weeks of the game, which has been lavished with near-universal accolades.
In its entire 9 year history Trainz has not sold anywhere near that which GTA4 sold in its first week. It's easy to deduce that Trainz does not make the sort of money that enables the development of new game engines and a development staff of 30+.

The train sim market is a niche that teeters on the brink of viability. Some such as TMTS gave up on the consumer market and concentrated on the professional market and some such as Microsoft gave up on the market altogether. Twice.

I'm guessing that's why some people, including me, cut Auran a little slack.
 
Well there was another thread where i wrote my thoughts about TRS2010. This is realy getting out of hand. I think about leaving Trainz as it is when my last route is ready. I mean the versions TRS2004, 2006, 2009 yes i realy understand. But still TRS2009 is not fully 100% and already a new version is coming up. What do we have now. TRS2004,2006,2007,2008, 2009, TC,TC2,TC3. Its not possible anymore to make some routes and assets for the community anymore with so many versions that not work together. Even new Trainz users are scared of with this policy. Why not go on with 1 international version TRS2009 and bring updates and add-ons for that version to make a great version out of that. I have payware content i cant use anymore in the new versions. Routes made for TRS2006 don,t work for TRS2009 etc. Plz Auran don,t get me wrong, Trainz has the best community over the world and its great but this realy makes me sad.
Dont make the same mistake as the new Trainsim made by EA

Thats it Greetz laika(Ronny):wave:
 
Is there any other type of marketing? I was not making any reference to the quality of Auran's marketing, I was merely endulging my love of the lowest form of wit.

Haha, no, its alright :p(me being serious again)
 
Auran released TRS2009 WBE with a promise for better content in Engineer Edition. From what I see TRS2010 IS TRS2009 Engineer Edition. They just renamed it. Instead of just the drivers edition they're adding the full game. Probably to include the service patches. I knew if I bought WBE I would also have to buy EE for the content.

IF the new content is there then 2010 is the second half of 2009 they promised in a full version with service packs. They are honoring the 20% vouchers as promised as well. I think offering it in a full version does two things. It honors the promise to 2009 buyers AND may attract new users who aren't particularly happy with another sim out there but are confused with Trainz because of the WBE/EE questions. Pretty good marketing move if current users could see it for what it is.

Dave....
 
W... What do we have now. TRS2004,2006,2007,2008, 2009, TC,TC2,TC3.
I can understand how a new user could be confused by the variety of versions. There really needs to be a simple description of the plus and minus of each version so that the new user can easily decide which one best fits their needs. But that assumes they even know what they need. The guide also needs to be fair and unbiased, without favoritism.

Realistically I don't see how it could be any different. Hardware also keeps improving so that features that couldn't exist or were difficult to implement in the past are now common place and simple to support. :cool:
Its not possible anymore to make some routes and assets for the community anymore with so many versions that not work together. ...
Thats it Greetz laika(Ronny):wave:
This is a different issue. One small step is to always design to the lowest common version. That is, apply the lowest version that will support the features you use. Then you will be able to reach the widest possible audience. :)

In some cases this will not work. Take the stitched track made for TS2009. Unless you also have TS2009, too bad, so sad, but that's the way the rails road. :o
 
Originally Posted by laika
"W... What do we have now. TRS2004,2006,2007,2008, 2009, TC,TC2,TC3."


Don't forget UTC, and 1.3 and even ealier. By the way TC1 and 2 are combined, not 2 different products.
Yeah, I know ,picky picky.:o
 
Yes SuperFudd and this is what i mean. To build routes and assets for the world wide community is not possible anymore with all these different versions. Now lets take an example. Some1 build a route with TC1 and use some inbuild content from that version. Can some1 that use the newer version TC3 also run that route that is build with TC1. I don,t think so because all the differnt versions has different inbuild content. When some1 build a route in TRS2007 and another one that is using TRS2008(french) cant run the route because TRS2007 has some german inbuild content that isn,t in the TRS2008 version. Its a mess that need to stop. If this is going on i can,t build any routes any more so i need to stop with building routes for the community and only use Trainz for my own. Not even to speak about the broken content when i buils a route in TRS2004 and some1 want to use this route in TRS2006 or even worse TRS2009

Plz Auran consider this and talk to all international sellers how to solve such problems. Trainz is a great concept plz keep it that way.

Greetz laika:wave:
 
So you are suggesting that the ideal solution would be to create new versions of Trainz without any new content? Somehow I don't think that is going to work very well.

Paul
 
@paulhobbs Well my main problem is all the different international versions. I think only 1 world wide version need to be make with language options. Or include at least all inbuild content in all versions for all country´s and not as it is now. Why for example isn,t there a final SP1 for the Dutch version of TRS2006. These are big problems that need to be solved. New lets take a new Trainz user. What version does he need to run some routes made particular in a version like TRS2007. Can he buy TRS2006 with SP1 or TRS2008 or does he need TC3? This is to complex even for the veteran user. Why call a TRS2010 a updated 2009 if it is the same with some more updates. I think the way they did with TRS2004 was great.
But well its my opinion and the problems i discovered with some years of routebuilding.
And can i run routes that are build in TC3 or with the TRS2007 with all the updates in TRS2010. So has TRS2010 all the inbuild content from all the other already existing worldwide versions etc.

Greetz laika:wave:
 
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I do feel that laika, dose have a valid point, about having too many versions, all with different built-in content. And I have said it before that this is slowly ruining the game, and making it less of a pleasure, and more of a chore.

Paul,……. Would I be right in thinking that your group get royalty's for all TC3's sold, ......Nothing wrong in doing this I may add, your work is brilliant!
But time go's on, and when there's no one buying TC3 anymore, would you consider putting the built-in content on the DLS, for the grater good of all.
 
One version with all the built-in content? Next you'll hear the complaints of those that only want to see their region and not have to wade through all of the, to them, uninteresting stuff. :eek: I know, CM2 can disable content so you don't see it but that seems to be too difficult for some people to do.

Hmm, perhaps a single version with a local language overlay for the user interface would not be a bad idea. If a specific language overlay is not available or ready, arrange things so a local user's group could build one and then have a simple plug-in mechanism to add it to the base program. Could this work? At least from a code and built-in asset perspective we would all be on the same page.
 
Yes martinvk that would be a help i think. Or to bring all the inbuilt content on a seperate disk. So you can choose what to install. Then it is even possible to delete the inbuild content when you don,t need it. But lets get rid of all the different international versions so we all have world wide the same stuff. Maby there are more solutions.

Greetz laika:wave:
 
My Twopennyworth
TS2009 is still beta software, after two service packs it still has annoying glitches such as the inability to resume a previous search in Content Manager, and the silly behaviour of attempting to connect to the internet on starting. There are very few "native mode" assets so the way forward for a lot of people will be compatibility mode for which there are many thousand of assets on the DLS. The alpha-blending issue, however, will still prevent many of such assets showing correctly.

It would seem to me that the developers have now realised this, and are trying to patch the main issue, that of vegetation, with SpeedTree in the new version. Maybe they should go further and do something about alpha-blending so that compatibility mode works properly

Thus, should not TS2010 be the third service pack for TS2009? The improvements such as layers in Surveyor, and a new interface are merely cosmetic, and let's face it all of the new content, with the exception of SpeedTree, are not really new anyway. The routes can be downloaded and modified at will, with SpeedTree or whatever.

I will probably buy it, I have found it difficult to resist previous versions, and, as has been commented upon, the pleasure given will probably justify my decision. But you have to remember, especially in this economic climate, those who may find it difficult to raise the cash for all of these versions. They should not be taken for a ride with a new version which really is another service pack.

And finally, a note of support to content creators. To TNM and Jankvis, the standard of your trees are really coming along, and I am sure that they will be used on many many maps, and add the variety that I feel SpeedTree may lack. Keep up the good work, knowing that your efforts are very much appreciated. But please don't go payware and charge £25 for a new version :hehe:
Geoff
 
So you are suggesting that the ideal solution would be to create new versions of Trainz without any new content? Somehow I don't think that is going to work very well.

Paul

Works for me everytime ...

Again I request a version without third party content and the ability to build my own ja's . ... Please

I'd also ask for a CCG , but there's TrainzDev Wiki now , so that's been taken care of ... Thanks

Will pay extra .

:)
 
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Why not just make all previous built in content available on the DLS? Not the whole DLS, just what's been included in previous versions. As far as what individual content creators have done, that would be up to them to do if they choose. If not you still have compatibility mode to run older routes in. About as close as you can possibly do to have a universal sim without loading all built in content on the disc.

Dave......
 
Thinking it over some more, even a single version with all built-in content will not solve missing dependencies if creators use objects from sources other than the DLS like third party sites. I know of several creators who want more "control" over their objects and don't upload to the DLS on principal.

So Auran needs to have a single version with everything in it and every creator releasing a route publicly must only use built-in and or DLS objects. :o
 
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