TS2010 Thoughts So Far

Looking back i did more work on TS09 then play with it, and now much of this work will be obsolet even. You may understand i have mixed feelings about the announcement.

I find the new features of TS10 intriguing, but i will be more carefull this time and see if it warrants buying. I bought TS09:WBE because i wanted to have "surveyor" in addition to the routes/items comming with EE.
Had i known EE would come with "surveyor" i would have waited.

Maybe TS09 buyers are the ones who didn't get much out of this product, the "losers" so to speak. Everyone else will make a much better buy with TS10, the product TS09 should have been after EE.

To sum it up, i'm not mad at Auran, but i will be more carefull as their product-policy for Trainz seems to be shifting and is not very clear. For example, what will come after TS10? How long for the release, maybe already in the pipeline?
 
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You have just called me a loser but my point is proven quite clearly once again. 10 has everything 09 has and better. The decision to release TS2010 as a new title with no incentive whatsoever to 09 users is absolutely cockheaded.

And please, 20% off is kind of like adding salt to the wound.
 
Isaac.

1. It is nothing new the fact that Auran's marketing department is somewhat retarded and completely profit-oriented.

2. Yes, they did the "themed" thing recently with the S&C and Murchison.

@1: ROFL, I figured that... thats probably why people aren't purchasing a lot these days(they know its for the profit and not for their enjoyment; hence crappy quality[no offense])

@2: Yes, I kind of understood that. S&C(unoriginal for a start. 1. MSTS did it, and 2. It was already in TC3). I don't know about Murchison so I won't make any comment on that(I've seen pics and it's very nice). If you get what I mean by themed backs I meant a small CD for about 9.99 or so that includes a few trains, maybe a station or two, and some trackside accesories or even new scenery buildings. Or something similar to what they've done with the Treez Pak, they could create a "Carz Pak", which would include nicer cars(all of them not being from the DLS or past releases of TS), which I can say, in my case would definetly be welcomed.
 
but, seriously, you don't think that it's that the current owner base is so small that they'd rather point to new users? wasn't that the deal with classic trainz, trying to, over and over, hook young dads into a layout for the kids so that he can legally 'play'?

it's just marketing, and each iteration ought to be a service pack, but it's not -- and, who knows? and, anyway, collect them all! like they were avon bottles or something -- kitch for kulture --

it really doesn't matter, as long as the independent content creators are alive and well.


You have just called me a loser but my point is proven quite clearly once again. 10 has everything 09 has and better. The decision to release TS2010 as a new title with no incentive whatsoever to 09 users is absolutely cockheaded.

And please, 20% off is kind of like adding salt to the wound.
 
I will say(mikemike, you're right though on the 'courting new users bit') that I am content with 09, but I will be purchasing 10 on the counts that this computer will be gone by the time 10 is released and I shall need to've purchased another copy of 09 because my DigiDL was accidentaly deleted(it was the dumb blonde in me half asleep thinking "what does this button do") and my TC copies have lost their serialz, so I've decided to march into 2010 so to speak. I will also like to comment on my gratitude for Auran on the SpeedTree feature. I've been to their website, dropped my jaw, drooled for a few minutes, and nearly fainted at the prices of the "Seeds", and was astonished at the prices of everything(incl. SpeedTreeMAX, the plugin for 3DS, which in turn can be used with the Trainz Plugin for 3DS to export into Trainz). It's very expensive, and I'm sure that I will be most pleased that I only have to pay 40 dollars for a railway simulator that has nice routes(I've never touched an ECML route for trainz before, and I never DLed CR's stuff), and quality treez that cost about 100 bucks per tree library(about 15 trees per library out of 4 libraries available) and about 400 bucks for the MAX plugin as well.
 
Stupid to buy TS2009? Don't be silly, it was CM2 in TS2009 that finally convinced me to move beyond TRS2004. And now there will be even more great stuff like layers. And if you can't see why that would be a major feature then you haven't been doing much in Surveyor. :eek:

And with the other extras and under-the-hood improvements, what's with all the moaning since TS2010 was announced? If you're not planning to buy it, that's your decision but can't you do that privately and not announce it? :o
 
Looking back i did more work on TS09 then play with it, and now much of this work will be obsolet even. You may understand i have mixed feelings about the announcement.

I find the new features of TS10 intriguing, but i will be more carefull this time and see if it warrants buying. I bought TS09:WBE because i wanted to have "surveyor" in addition to the routes/items comming with EE.
Had i known EE would come with "surveyor" i would have waited.

Maybe TS09 buyers are the ones who didn't get much out of this product, the "losers" so to speak. Everyone else will make a much better buy with TS10, the product TS09 should have been after EE.

To sum it up, i'm not mad at Auran, but i will be more carefull as their product-policy for Trainz seems to be shifting and is not very clear. For example, what will come after TS10? How long for the release, maybe already in the pipeline?

I think the work you've done with TS2009 will not be obsoleted by Speedtree. Speedtree is not the 100% ideal solution and it is a bit restrictive in that it's more difficult to create trees in it so we won't be seeing quite the variety we have seen in the past.

Cheerio John
 
I agree with Martin, if we had not bought TS2009, TS2010 would not be where it is now. Programmers do not work their magic for nothing. Sometimes that seems to be forgotten. I do not understand what all the whinging is about.

Dict: Whinging = Silly or pointless complaints.

Peter
 
I agree with Martin, if we had not bought TS2009, TS2010 would not be where it is now. Programmers do not work their magic for nothing. Sometimes that seems to be forgotten. I do not understand what all the whinging is about.

Dict: Whinging = Silly or pointless complaints.

Peter

Agreed (even though we Yanks spell it 'whining.') My first thought was similar to others': "I got duped by 2009!!" but Peter and Martin's voice give me second thoughts. Thanks for making me think, guys!

Darrel
 
Well if you think Auran is ripping you off ( i don't ).

Then you could always go play with Railworks, where they expect you to pay £12 Sterling, for one loco.

Mike.

Quite likely with generic cab, sounds and no scenarios to speak of, plus an aggressive put down/lectured like a naughty child on UKTS if you dare to question the quality/VFM!

And an "oops, sorry" Steam update that trashed route development if you didn't make a backup after placing each object, allegedly put right now but no real basis to trust it won't happen again.

Re Speedtree, after doing some research examples of their work pop up in quite a few contemporary games and do look the part (even the bare ones in Fallout 3, my non-railway game of the moment). Just hope they don't show up the other older assets too much!
 
Isaac.

It is nothing new the fact that Auran's marketing department is somewhat retarded and completely profit-oriented.

Imagine a company's own marketing department being profit oriented? There was me thinking that Auran were operating as a charity.

TNM said:
Looking back i did more work on TS09 then play with it, and now much of this work will be obsolet even. You may understand i have mixed feelings about the announcement.

TNM, I don't think your work will become obsolete. I doubt I'll be buying TS2010 just for the sake of Speedtree. It's not a feature I am interested in so current TS09 content will always be on my list as I'm sure it will for many others.
 
John, that's exactly what makes me so cross.

We go out and buy 09 knowing that 09's EE will make it complete. Now that 10 is announced, it makes the people who bought 09 look stupid.

"Haha, we've tricked you. Now we're going to sell you 10 which was originally intended to complete 09 but is now a brand new title, has everything that 09 has and revolutionary features! And you're going to buy it."

And by revolutionary I'm not joking. SpeedTree and Layers are about the most exciting things in Trainz since the DLS. It's just Auran's sales/marketing that ticks me off. As someone questioned on another thread, "why sell us 4 different small products instead of 1 good one?"

Nicholas.

Nick,

Ignore the marketing spin and look at the product for what it is. In a nutshell this is called software development based on a single base platform. So what's the big deal? There is no trickery here. This is not unusual with most of the software we purchase today. The '09 version doesn't make anyone look stupid if they've purchased it. If that was the case then many of the people still using TRS2004, UTC, Sp3, TRS2006, would be deleting their programs in embarassment, and only whispering their Trainz versions when asked. ;)

This is how software is written today. While new full versions of programs are written, a team is working on interim programs that add features through updates and new versions, depending upon how the sales department wants to sell the product. How many versions of Adobe products have you purchased? How about software from Microsoft?

With the latest released version of Windows, Vista not W7, people complained that it was too revolutionary even though the underlying code is pretty much the same as before. The problem was that it did things differently. Would you want to have to relearn how to use the program with every new version that comes out? The fact that Surveyor looks and acts the same is a plus for the majority of us that purchase the new version. We could say this about Driver too, or remember when TRS2006 came out with the new CMP? People here were in an uproar because now this program acted different than anything else they used, (We won't talk about the initial technicial difficulties) and complained loudly and almost violently in the forums here.

Each of a software version is built on the other. Adobe is one of the biggest cuprits in this. They sell a version of Illustrator for example for a lot of money. Then they charge a lot to upgrade. The upgrade is nothing more than a few more buttons with nothing is fixed underneath, and in fact more things are broken and the program runs a lot slower.

The net result of their upgrade are more useless features and no fixes, and to add insult to injury, you end up needing the stupid upgrade because the brainy customer decided to go with the latest. So you fork out $350 for an upgrade. Ah, this is a special deal for the upraders. The upgrade, by the way won't install unless you have your old disk and serial number around as well, and you need to phone home to Adobe with both serial numbers.

The full version I forgot to tell you is $850, and this new version crashes because there's now an undocumented limit on the number of spline points on a curve. And to make matters worse, they give you the option to write to the previous version so other people can still read your files. This sounds great and probably worth part of the upgrade package. The poblem is they don't tell you that this really isn't fully compatible, and they also don't mention the undocumented feature that makes the previous versions of the files useless for anyone that really needs them because certain things are stripped out that worked before in the old versions of the files. This will cost you a few customers because these customers didn't upgrade to the latest version.

The other gotcha is the software won't run on older versions of Windows or Apple OSx. So then you need to up grade your systems just to run one package in order to stay in business. The snowball effect gets worse. Now that you've upgraded your new OS, there are now other programs that need patches, full verisons, and upgrades in order to operate on the new system. This can get worse if you're using an older Macintosh (No Apple wars here, please). They are very version specific with their operating system and hardware iterations, so purchasing the new OS may not work on your hardware. This is probably and extreme example, but it's not unusual.

I could go on with many examples of software that is based on previous versions. There are many reasons for this including the ease in development. It's a lot faster to build on something already made than it is to start from scratch. The overhead costs are a lot less and the development time is less so the cost to the company, and sometimes to the customer is a lot less.

It's not such a big deal really, and for the cost of this program is a worthy upgrade even for the other features they are adding in.

John
 
You have just called me a loser but my point is proven quite clearly once again. 10 has everything 09 has and better. The decision to release TS2010 as a new title with no incentive whatsoever to 09 users is absolutely cockheaded.

And please, 20% off is kind of like adding salt to the wound.
The UK government takes 20% of my pay in income tax. Let me assure you that it is not nothing.

You know there's no secret here. If you think the next version of Trainz is worth the money buy it. If you don't, then don't but it. It's the same choice you make hundreds of times a year for other products without even thinking about it.
 
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Software Development Versions

I understand the point about software releases being built upon previous versions, but I think that (in not more than a couple of years time) people will stop buying 'updated' versions. It's already happening in business (look at how many companies stayed with XP, because the cost-per-seat upgrade to Vista was too high). Version exhaustion is setting in, especially when it needs a more powerful computer to do the same task.

I don't feel I got that much extra going from 2006 to 2009. So that's going to put me off going from 2009 to anything else (especially since the patch process is so slow). I thought Trainz was brilliant when I first saw it, but several versions later it's not really changed much and it's starting to need a fresh look.
 
I understand the point about software releases being built upon previous versions, but I think that (in not more than a couple of years time) people will stop buying 'updated' versions. It's already happening in business (look at how many companies stayed with XP, because the cost-per-seat upgrade to Vista was too high). Version exhaustion is setting in, especially when it needs a more powerful computer to do the same task.

I don't feel I got that much extra going from 2006 to 2009. So that's going to put me off going from 2009 to anything else (especially since the patch process is so slow). I thought Trainz was brilliant when I first saw it, but several versions later it's not really changed much and it's starting to need a fresh look.

Brian,

Beautifully written and agree.
 
Imagine a company's own marketing department being profit oriented? There was me thinking that Auran were operating as a charity.

I think he knows its profit-based marketing, but the marketing is so crappy that a new version that hardly variates from the last one has to be released to keep up the sales.
 
I think he knows its profit-based marketing, but the marketing is so crappy that a new version that hardly variates from the last one has to be released to keep up the sales.

Is there any other type of marketing? I was not making any reference to the quality of Auran's marketing, I was merely endulging my love of the lowest form of wit.
 
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