TS2010 is the best release so far!!

[sparky15]

Never said a thing about redoing or not redoing anything. Where you get that I don't know or why you're so fixated on it. This supposed alienation is a fallacy by some, who for some reason, are licking their chops to get their hands on the DLS.

If you would have actually read my post I was suggesting a break from the old content. 09 has a lot going for it that would benefit from that new content instead of backwards compatibility.

But, as is your pattern, you decide to pick what you want to hear. Instead falling back to childish and snide remarks in an attempt to look or feel important. With that I'm pretty much done dealing with you.

Dave....

 

[johnwhelan]

If you would have actually read my post I was suggesting a break from the old content. 09 has a lot going for it that would benefit from that new content instead of backwards compatibility.

If you change the graphics engine then you need totally new content on that we are agreed.

You have stated that we don't need all 100,000 items that are currently on the DLS but have neglected to say how many or which ones you would recreate. Choosing not to recreate any of them is bound to cause some resentment.

My point is basically Railworks or whatever has done this but the amount of content they could afford to create hasn't been very much. Given the complexity of trying to combine the two simulators I'm unsure where the money is coming from to rebuild the DLS content or even get something out within a reasonable time frame.

The two years for a programmer to become proficient in a programming language or environment isn't just plucked out of the air its one of the metrics used with programmers and how experienced they are.

Cheerio John

 

[Scitimar]

If you change the graphics engine then you need totally new content on that we are agreed.

Cheerio John

Incorrect ... you need a new exporter for the chosen engine .

I have a textured box and here's a short list of engines that will accept that box ... with the correct material settings and exporter .

X-Ray Engine
World Builder
Wintermute Engine
Wild Pockets
Unreal Engine 3.x
Unreal Engine 2.x
University
Unity
TGEA
Source engine
Silent Storm engine
Scimitar
SAGE engine
RPG Maker XP
RPG Maker VX
Riot Engine
RGSS
RAGE
PhyreEngine
Panda3D
Neon Engine
Nebula Device 3
M.U.G.E.N
Infinity Engine
Infernal Engine
id Tech 4
HeroEngine
Hedgehog Engine
GoldSrc
Gamestudio
Gamebryo
Game Maker Lite
Essence Engine
Esperient Creator
Enigma Engine
DX Studio
Dunia Engine
dim3
Dagor Engine 3
Crystal Tools
CryEngine Far Cry
CryEngine 3k
CryEngine 2
CPAL3D
C4 Engine
BRender
BigWorld
Aurora Engine
Alamo
Adventure Game Studio
3d MMORPG
OGRE


.

 

[paulzmay]

Personally I can't see any great gain for any break from old content. The main issue is that the DLS contains many items that are faulty. Most of them always were, but due to the pitiful error checking in previous times, and sometimes patchy guidance, creators had no easy way of knowing that what they were doing was wrong.

To my mind TS2009/2010 has most of the improvements needed to get Trainz looking as good as Railworks (with the exception of real time shadows - which really must come in the next major Trainz release). It needs a lot of more detailed content to make good use of the increased efficiency of the game engine, but what already exists is at least good enough for background use, and much of it is truly up to scratch.

What is needed is the long promised clean up of the DLS, together with a re-vamp of the interface, so more information about assets can be given (and any unfixable or not yet fixed assets can be filtered out). The vast majority of errors can be fixed without source files, and most probably have been fixed by dozens of us, so it really is up to Auran to work out how to leverage the community's expertise into sorting out their rather tarnished crown jewels...

Paul

 

[paulzmay]

Incorrect ... you need a new exporter for the chosen engine .

I have a textured box and here's a short list of engines that will accept that box ... with the correct material settings and exporter .

X-Ray Engine
World Builder
Wintermute Engine
Wild Pockets
Unreal Engine 3.x
Unreal Engine 2.x
University
Unity
TGEA
Source engine
Silent Storm engine
Scimitar
SAGE engine
RPG Maker XP
RPG Maker VX
Riot Engine
RGSS
RAGE
PhyreEngine
Panda3D
Neon Engine
Nebula Device 3
M.U.G.E.N
Infinity Engine
Infernal Engine
id Tech 4
HeroEngine
Hedgehog Engine
GoldSrc
Gamestudio
Gamebryo
Game Maker Lite
Essence Engine
Esperient Creator
Enigma Engine
DX Studio
Dunia Engine
dim3
Dagor Engine 3
Crystal Tools
CryEngine Far Cry
CryEngine 3k
CryEngine 2
CPAL3D
C4 Engine
BRender
BigWorld
Aurora Engine
Alamo
Adventure Game Studio
3d MMORPG
OGRE


.

True, but what about all of the other stuff in the config file? Scripts? Attachments? Routes? There's lots more to content than just a textured mesh. Also, would Auran even have the right to use DLS content in a product that was not 'Trainz'?

Paul

 

[Scitimar]

To my mind TS2009/2010 has most of the improvements needed to get Trainz looking as good as Railworks (with the exception of real time shadows - which really must come in the next major Trainz release). It needs a lot of more detailed content to make good use of the increased efficiency of the game engine, but what already exists is at least good enough for background use, and much of it is truly up to scratch.

Paul

curious how you see lack of shaders and a the jet equivalent of a skybox ( truly makes me sick just to look at it ) equaling any other game . " Silk purses out of sows ears " ain't going to happen in this engine in yours or my lifetime .

True, but what about all of the other stuff in the config file? Scripts? Attachments? Routes? There's lots more to content than just a textured mesh. Also, would Auran even have the right to use DLS content in a product that was not 'Trainz'?

Paul

What about it ?? Content is just a textured mesh , configuration files of some description and mandotary in almost evey game ... do you think trainz is any different or "special " .... here's a tip >> it's not . You also neglected to add that TS09 and 10 require significant changes to several items just to get them in game ...

Maybe they could build their own ... it would make a nice change from lazy

Sci

 

[paulzmay]

curious how you see lack of shaders and a the jet equivalent of a skybox ( truly makes me sick just to look at it ) equaling any other game . " Silk purses out of sows ears " ain't going to happen in this engine in yours or my lifetime .
<snip>

What about it ?? Content is just a textured mesh , configuration files of some description and mandotary in almost evey game ... do you think trainz is any different or "special " .... here's a tip >> it's not . You also neglected to add that TS09 and 10 require significant changes to several items just to get them in game ...

Maybe they could build their own ... it would make a nice change from lazy

Sci

I'm not implying that conversion couldn't be done - it's just a HUGE task, even if you eliminate the stuff on the DLS which would be better forgotten about. Config files, scripts etc would be different and probably not automatically convertible.

As for how Jet would look with proper shadows - sure it wouldn't be the best looking out there, but it would be the biggest single improvement (if it's done right).

And so far, out of the hundreds of items I have corrected for use in TS09/10, I'm not sure I can say I've found even 'several' that needed a change that would not have been the correct way to do it in the earlier version. The only area I can see where changes really must be made is in steam locos. I haven't found a single scenery item that would have needed a change if it was correct in the first place.

Personally I don't know whether it is possible for Jet to be brought fully up to date, but if, as you say, a mesh is a mesh, there is no fundamental reason why a development of Jet cannot be compatible with correctly made current assets. Obviously we need more high quality, professional looking items, but they don't grow on trees, so anything that causes the abandonment of a resource as great as the DLS seems to me to be creative suicide.

As for Auran building their own content - there is some in TS2010, and it's not bad, but how many 3D artists can they really support, compared to the capacity of the community as a whole? Isn't it better that they put all their resources into getting the code right?

Paul

 

[amigacooke]

Shouldn't the latter content of this thread be in 'suggestions'?

 

[Paulsw2]

...What is needed is the long promised clean up of the DLS, together with a re-vamp of the interface, so more information about assets can be given (and any unfixable or not yet fixed assets can be filtered out). The vast majority of errors can be fixed without source files, and most probably have been fixed by dozens of us, so it really is up to Auran to work out how to leverage the community's expertise into sorting out their rather tarnished crown jewels...

Paul

Yes, yes, yes! Why do we force people to reinvent the wheel when it comes to 'fixing' assets for TS09/10?

If other users have created 'fixed' versions of assets on their PCs why can't we find a way to harness this effort and to get these versions uploaded to a 'cleansed' DLS?

If an asset was uploaded to the DLS by an creator in the past, does that give Auran the right in the future to upload, or permit the uploading, of a revised version of the asset, without needing to seek the original creator's permission? (ie. if you put an asset on the DLS, you're transferring some intellectual property rights to Auran for that asset.)

I'm not sure about this, but some clarity on this point would be useful, because this is clearly the short cut way to 'cleanup' the DLS. I doubt that Auran have enough staff to sort out a repository containing 143,000 items. But with potentially hundreds (thousands?) of willing volunteers in the Trainz community, they could certainly do it and quite quickly.

Paul

 

[nromo]

Murchinson

I bought Murchinson and the Nature packs back in 2009. This was the first release of Murchison for Trainz 2009. The new stand-alone release is compatible with Trainz 2010, but not the earlier 2009 version I own. When I upgraded to Trainz 2010, the older Murchson does not work correctly. Sirgibby advised me that this was an Auran release and that they had changed the tags or something like that. Now I have missing assets and the game is unplayable. I emailed Auran tech support explaining all this in detail. All I asked Auran for was a 50% voucher to upgrade to the new Murchison release. I never even heard from them. This is what I get for being a loyal customer for years. I have purchased Trainz, Trainzs2004, 2009 and 2010. Thanks Auran. You Suck!!! No more of my money shall you receive.

Just to help keep a balance on on all the negative TS2010 comments I want to say that, in my opininion, TS2010 is the best release of TRAINZ since TRAINZ itself .... and this is, in part, due to the inclusion of Speedtrees which I find brings TRAINZ alive.

I have been with TRAINZ since before the first release and have spent many 1000's of hours with the progam over the years. (Those of you who have enjoyed my MURCHISON layouts will know the depth of my involvment with TRAINZ.)
TS2010 has given me a fresh enthusiasm for using the program. The inclusion of SPEEDTREES, LAYERS and HIGH DETAIL ROLLING STOCK has all contibuted to my enjoyment. I definitely want more but what TS2010 has given me so far is excellent.

I know that there are users who have had negative experiences with TS2010. However I also know that a lot of users have had no problems with it. I know that there are some bugs that Auran are working on but, overall, I give TS2010 a full thumbs up.

Michael

 

[sirgibby]

The new stand-alone release is compatible with Trainz 2010, but not the earlier 2009 version I own

I have not experienced or had any reports of difficulty installing TS:MURCHISON2 if you have TS2009 with SP2 installed

Now I have missing assets and the game is unplayable

With TS2010, apart from the cars not working on the streets (which is a general TS2010 change that Auran made and will be corrected with a Murchison patch) I have had no problems or reports of problems running TS:MURCHISON2 in TS2010 compatability mode.

Michael