Thats a very interesting take. A very nice way to look at it. And I enjoy your narrow guage stuff very much BTW.
TS2010 is the best release so far!!
- Thread starter sirgibby
- Start date
Thats a very interesting take. A very nice way to look at it. And I enjoy your narrow guage stuff very much BTW.
johnwhelan
Well-known member
Oh you mean better education so they can read and understand what information is available before they make decisions.
I totally agree and they would find it useful not only in understanding what Auran is saying but in many other aspects of day to day life as well.
How can we make this happen?:Y:
Cheerio John
Recalling the debate around at the time of the release of TS2009, I don't believe there was a known fix for the blended alpha issue. The vast majority of games out there do not have layered alpha blending that Trainz had in earlier versions, and graphics cards simply don't do it, so the processor gets clogged up with all of the work. There was a conscious decision made that Trainz in future would use techniques more in line with the way modern graphics cards, so as to enable extra detail, draw distance etc.
The method now used in TS2010 to simulate alpha blending is a cunning work-around - the translucent materials are actually very finely dithered (i.e. a pattern of dots), similar to the way transfers are applied to bus and tram windows. It's a function of the way that Trainz processes textures.
There is a reason that TS2009 defaults to compatibility mode...
Paul
Ah, someone questions Auran so the faithful circle the wagons and sling personal attacks. Man you got yourself a double dose of the cool aid, John. Hiding behind a keyboard insulting people you don't even know, looks like it may be you who needs help with day to day life. Or, maybe you have experienced life and thats why you hide behind your keyboard? Cheerio.
Now back to intelligent conversation, my apologies to those who didn't stoop to such childishness.
At Narrowgauge,
Its not about getting anything for free. Its about getting a version of a program working as it should. I don't care about new content. I want my version to work with the built in content I already paid for, not to much to ask is it.
You laid out the marketing plan perfectly. When 2009EE would have been released, WBE would have been updated to fix some of the issues I'm complaining about. Since EE is now 2010, anyone with 2009 is stuck with a program that does not function as it should. Basically we have 2006, but at least 2006 could use the built in content and at a higher performance level.
Now, Auran is still selling 2009. An out dated experiment that will never reach the hype on the box, a dead end, but they are still pushing it out the door. If you want all that performance hype you need to buy 2010, paying twice just to get the basic game working properly.
Again, I do not want the content, that I will gladly pay for when they do something about those trees. All I want is for 09 to have the performance I supposedly upgraded for. The ability to use older content and take advantage of the new game's speed without the alpha problems. THAT is my problem with all this.
Dave.....
Now back to intelligent conversation, my apologies to those who didn't stoop to such childishness.
At Narrowgauge,
Its not about getting anything for free. Its about getting a version of a program working as it should. I don't care about new content. I want my version to work with the built in content I already paid for, not to much to ask is it.
You laid out the marketing plan perfectly. When 2009EE would have been released, WBE would have been updated to fix some of the issues I'm complaining about. Since EE is now 2010, anyone with 2009 is stuck with a program that does not function as it should. Basically we have 2006, but at least 2006 could use the built in content and at a higher performance level.
Now, Auran is still selling 2009. An out dated experiment that will never reach the hype on the box, a dead end, but they are still pushing it out the door. If you want all that performance hype you need to buy 2010, paying twice just to get the basic game working properly.
Again, I do not want the content, that I will gladly pay for when they do something about those trees. All I want is for 09 to have the performance I supposedly upgraded for. The ability to use older content and take advantage of the new game's speed without the alpha problems. THAT is my problem with all this.
Dave.....
Hmmm - everything in TS2009 seems to work fine in compatibility mode, and a good proportion of folks seemed happy that it runs faster than earlier versions. Native mode was included so as to allow creators to get their act in order for later versions (I think Auran always expected to sell more copies of EE than WBE the way they talked). If native mode wasn't included would anyone be complaining about the trees and alpha blending?
There was plenty of info about TS2009 before it's release, and a lot of discussion about the limited content available for native mode. TS2010EE isn't selling for any more than TS2009EE would have done, but with a lot more unexpected features (like surveyor, layers and speedtree).
Personally, as we are promised an SP4 for TS2009 that will apparently ensure complete compatibility with TS2010, then it's quite possible that the alpha handling will be improved as part of this. Auran are a small team, and can't do everything yesterday.
And if this makes me a fanboy, so be it. If it wasn't for Auran, we'd be playing Railworks...
Paul
There was plenty of info about TS2009 before it's release, and a lot of discussion about the limited content available for native mode. TS2010EE isn't selling for any more than TS2009EE would have done, but with a lot more unexpected features (like surveyor, layers and speedtree).
Personally, as we are promised an SP4 for TS2009 that will apparently ensure complete compatibility with TS2010, then it's quite possible that the alpha handling will be improved as part of this. Auran are a small team, and can't do everything yesterday.
And if this makes me a fanboy, so be it. If it wasn't for Auran, we'd be playing Railworks...
Paul
Paul,
I missed your post, we must have been posting at the same time. My response was aimed at someone else who was being insulting. I apologize if you felt it was aimed at you, or anyone else as it wasn't.
As far as this matter and Auran, I'm pretty much done with both. I have older versions that run better for me so I'll stick to those. I've said my piece and still feel all this was a scam so refuse to ever buy another Trainz product.
Dave.....
I missed your post, we must have been posting at the same time. My response was aimed at someone else who was being insulting. I apologize if you felt it was aimed at you, or anyone else as it wasn't.
As far as this matter and Auran, I'm pretty much done with both. I have older versions that run better for me so I'll stick to those. I've said my piece and still feel all this was a scam so refuse to ever buy another Trainz product.
Dave.....
I didn't think it was aimed at me, but I did think your post was a little strong (mind you so was John's perhaps?).
Perhaps we should all just take a moment and repeat the mantra, "It's only a game" a few times.
I really don't see how you could come to the conclusion it was a deliberate scam. I've been in product and technical development for a fair few years now, and I've never come across a place where it's the best policy to release a product that isn't all it could be. It's in Auran's best interests to release the best and most competitive product they can at the time the release it. Now they could have spent another year working on it, but then that's no revenue from Trainz for another year, and shareholders don't like that.
Was TS2009 perfectly ready for release? No. But then bigger software companies have released much bigger dogs (Windows ME, Vista anyone?). And Auran are still talking about service packs for TS2009. It took them about a year to release the much needed only service pack for TRS06.
If you never buy another Trainz product again who loses most? Personally I've moved to '09 and '10 completely (one on each machine). The frame rates and draw distances are so much better.
Anyway, I suspect that this is one of those arguments where everyone just re-states the same case with every post until we all get bored, so there's probably a limit to how much it's worth me saying.
Paul
p.s. I agree with sirgibby...
Perhaps we should all just take a moment and repeat the mantra, "It's only a game" a few times.
I really don't see how you could come to the conclusion it was a deliberate scam. I've been in product and technical development for a fair few years now, and I've never come across a place where it's the best policy to release a product that isn't all it could be. It's in Auran's best interests to release the best and most competitive product they can at the time the release it. Now they could have spent another year working on it, but then that's no revenue from Trainz for another year, and shareholders don't like that.
Was TS2009 perfectly ready for release? No. But then bigger software companies have released much bigger dogs (Windows ME, Vista anyone?). And Auran are still talking about service packs for TS2009. It took them about a year to release the much needed only service pack for TRS06.
If you never buy another Trainz product again who loses most? Personally I've moved to '09 and '10 completely (one on each machine). The frame rates and draw distances are so much better.
Anyway, I suspect that this is one of those arguments where everyone just re-states the same case with every post until we all get bored, so there's probably a limit to how much it's worth me saying.
Paul
p.s. I agree with sirgibby...
Yes Paul, my post was strong, it was meant to be. I don't throw around personal insults and take great exception when I am insulted. Believe me if I posted what I wanted to say, lets just say I'm not ready to get banned yet.
Like I said, I have enjoyed the Trainz releases up until now. Each has had their bugs and quirks but for me this is a bit to much. As far as losing out, I'm no better off than I was with 06 so don't really see I'm missing anything.
For those who are happy with 09/10, by all means I'm happy for you and hope you continue to enjoy it. For me enough is enough and I'm done derailing SirGibby's thread. My apologies to him for that.
Dave....
Like I said, I have enjoyed the Trainz releases up until now. Each has had their bugs and quirks but for me this is a bit to much. As far as losing out, I'm no better off than I was with 06 so don't really see I'm missing anything.
For those who are happy with 09/10, by all means I'm happy for you and hope you continue to enjoy it. For me enough is enough and I'm done derailing SirGibby's thread. My apologies to him for that.
Dave....
Well Dave; I, for one respect your indignation...
Content has always been Auran's 'Achilles Heel'. It's true they built a lot of it for the initial release, but then bequeathed the content making chore to the community. They produced more content for 2004, and TC, but obviously could not produce all the content for all the nations and all the different RRs in the world. That's understandable.
They have taken the course of upgrading the program for each new release, and they have not necessarily let that effort be hamstrung by the available content. They have tried to be accommodating by protecting legacy assets from error checking, and by including the compatibility mode in the newer versions, and that's more than plenty of game designers do.
I look at it like this: Let's assume we each have a model RR, and then someone releases a new controlling system that promises better braking, acceleration, and many new features. The problem is it is not compatible with older track, buildings and rolling stock, and each of those will need to be upgraded. Some will upgrade each of those to enjoy the new controller, and some will forgo buying the new controller at all. Knowing that each release of the new controller will contain new features, and NOT knowing how that will impact your current content makes the buying decision difficult.
I am tired of "fixing" content that was not broken before, and I am tired of paying top dollar for each new release as well, so I have decided to wait until this year's version is in next year's bargain bin. True, that tack does not exactly support Auran with my discretionary income, but "them's the breaks"!
Now, I am not predicting doom for Auran, but the numbers will decide their future. As each new version changes the use of content, there should be an attrition of those willing to purchase and fix content "yet again". Perhaps one day they will release a new version and only about five or six people who have posted in this thread will purchase it. Perhaps one day all the creators of the content on the DLS will upgrade it to the latest version. Perhaps one day a version will be released that AUTOMAGICALLY corrects all the older content...who knows?
The decision to buy or not is always yours...and mine.
Content has always been Auran's 'Achilles Heel'. It's true they built a lot of it for the initial release, but then bequeathed the content making chore to the community. They produced more content for 2004, and TC, but obviously could not produce all the content for all the nations and all the different RRs in the world. That's understandable.
They have taken the course of upgrading the program for each new release, and they have not necessarily let that effort be hamstrung by the available content. They have tried to be accommodating by protecting legacy assets from error checking, and by including the compatibility mode in the newer versions, and that's more than plenty of game designers do.
I look at it like this: Let's assume we each have a model RR, and then someone releases a new controlling system that promises better braking, acceleration, and many new features. The problem is it is not compatible with older track, buildings and rolling stock, and each of those will need to be upgraded. Some will upgrade each of those to enjoy the new controller, and some will forgo buying the new controller at all. Knowing that each release of the new controller will contain new features, and NOT knowing how that will impact your current content makes the buying decision difficult.
I am tired of "fixing" content that was not broken before, and I am tired of paying top dollar for each new release as well, so I have decided to wait until this year's version is in next year's bargain bin. True, that tack does not exactly support Auran with my discretionary income, but "them's the breaks"!
Now, I am not predicting doom for Auran, but the numbers will decide their future. As each new version changes the use of content, there should be an attrition of those willing to purchase and fix content "yet again". Perhaps one day they will release a new version and only about five or six people who have posted in this thread will purchase it. Perhaps one day all the creators of the content on the DLS will upgrade it to the latest version. Perhaps one day a version will be released that AUTOMAGICALLY corrects all the older content...who knows?
The decision to buy or not is always yours...and mine.
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I just wish I could get a working copy so I could make my own judgement about the game.
Ordered 9 DEC 09,
Got it through mail 9 JAN 10, inserted disc, ERROR: corupt setup.exe files get new program. Reported problem
Got a reply 10 JAN 10 that a new disc 1 would be sent.
Well it is 22 JAN 10 and I'm still waiting. I don't think I'm being unreasonable by saying
"I'M PISSED OFF".
Ordered 9 DEC 09,
Got it through mail 9 JAN 10, inserted disc, ERROR: corupt setup.exe files get new program. Reported problem
Got a reply 10 JAN 10 that a new disc 1 would be sent.
Well it is 22 JAN 10 and I'm still waiting. I don't think I'm being unreasonable by saying
"I'M PISSED OFF".
Best yet! Back on topic
I think that Trainz 2010 is the best yet. I have been around since before the first release and am still here. I don't post much, but I do appreciate Trainz.
I have tried all the others, and they are ok, but not near as good as Trainz. I have wasted money on these others, but I did not go on the forums and gripe about how much they lacked. I just dropped out of sight and pursued the best one, Trainz.
This is a game, not life and death. Very little money goes into the purchase of every new release and keeps Auran (or whoever) in business and producing Trainz and the download station. I hope this goes on for a long time.
Jack
I think that Trainz 2010 is the best yet. I have been around since before the first release and am still here. I don't post much, but I do appreciate Trainz.
I have tried all the others, and they are ok, but not near as good as Trainz. I have wasted money on these others, but I did not go on the forums and gripe about how much they lacked. I just dropped out of sight and pursued the best one, Trainz.
This is a game, not life and death. Very little money goes into the purchase of every new release and keeps Auran (or whoever) in business and producing Trainz and the download station. I hope this goes on for a long time.
Jack
yea, I would fully expect a reputable company to sell me a discounted next version. A $10 2010 edition would do me fine. In fact it would be better for them to do so than to make me wait the "year" for the next service pack. In a year this new customer will have purged the ill will but I will still remember how bad 2009 is to a newbie like myself.
Here are some alternate names I came up with for Trainz 2009
2009: The "Why didn't you buy the 2010?" edition.
2009: The "Know this history before you speak," edition
2009: The "We all knew what to expect why didn't you?" edition
2009: The lack of information/search the forums edition
2009: The "half of what you need" edition
2009: next stop KUID edition
2009: Someone else will help you edition
2009: All the cool stuff is too old edition.
2009: The "easy for some" edition
2009: The "Now buy something else" edition
2009: The "Fun With Scripts," edition
2009: The "Its' Your Own fault" Edition
and my favorite
2009: The Earie Lackamanual Edition
Bitter? Maybe. Those that have been here forever no doubt can work their way around everything I have said. But I am a new customer. Do you know how it feels to see this thread title after only 3 months?
I am not "Trainzer," I have only put my toe into this so far. What does that make me? A CUSTOMER.
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johnwhelan
Well-known member
Strange my TS2010 was discounted as a result of purchasing TS2009. Compare the price to software for consoles and its not bad, compare the price to a few HO locos and carriages and its not bad at all.
Cheerio John
How did you swing that? All I see is an offer to get TRS 2004 with a purchase of 2010. That's a little screwy, I think.
I am not going to compare price to buying an HO box car. I am not in the market for an HO box car. I expect what I buy to work well, or at least have a manual.
I would dare say that an HO box car would cause far less frustration.
Alright guys, last time.
2010, I do not want it, do not want it's content, do not want a discount on it, I do not want it if it was free.
I bought 09 for three reasons:
Signaling, much improved, good job to them.
5m grid, nice edition but useless with the performance issues.
Better performance, again useless with the alpha problems in native mode and compatibility mode is at best the same as 2006, worse in some cases.
09 has been out for quite some time, all the issues have been sorted in 10. Since becoming its own entity and not 09EE, 09 has been pushed off in favor of a new sim which was to be a content add on to the original. People bought 09, warts and all, to keep "poor" Auran afloat yet again.
The promised fixes for 09 turned into the purchase of yet another game with it's inherent problems that need fixing. Sorry, no staff or time to fix that, you need to upgrade to these problems instead. No thanks.
Its been a year, you have two new versions selling, fix the problems, its done, you did it to create 10. Upgrading to get fixes is not an option anymore.
Dave....
2010, I do not want it, do not want it's content, do not want a discount on it, I do not want it if it was free.
I bought 09 for three reasons:
Signaling, much improved, good job to them.
5m grid, nice edition but useless with the performance issues.
Better performance, again useless with the alpha problems in native mode and compatibility mode is at best the same as 2006, worse in some cases.
09 has been out for quite some time, all the issues have been sorted in 10. Since becoming its own entity and not 09EE, 09 has been pushed off in favor of a new sim which was to be a content add on to the original. People bought 09, warts and all, to keep "poor" Auran afloat yet again.
The promised fixes for 09 turned into the purchase of yet another game with it's inherent problems that need fixing. Sorry, no staff or time to fix that, you need to upgrade to these problems instead. No thanks.
Its been a year, you have two new versions selling, fix the problems, its done, you did it to create 10. Upgrading to get fixes is not an option anymore.
Dave....
Hey, I'm not try to convice ya...
LOL, yeah I know.
Derailing this thread was my fault, a post set me off and I lost track. SirGibby had a nice thing going showing he was happy with 2010, lets let him continue on with it.
My piece has been said. If anyone wants to continue lets do it in another thread. No sense in beating this in someone else's thread.
Again, my apologies to SirGibby for stealing his thread. I'm usually a very reasonable guy but let my anger get the best of me.
Dave.....
Derailing this thread was my fault, a post set me off and I lost track. SirGibby had a nice thing going showing he was happy with 2010, lets let him continue on with it.
My piece has been said. If anyone wants to continue lets do it in another thread. No sense in beating this in someone else's thread.
Again, my apologies to SirGibby for stealing his thread. I'm usually a very reasonable guy but let my anger get the best of me.
Dave.....
Hi Dave ... I guess thats the great thing about democrocay ... we get to have our say.
That's what my intention was with this thread. To let others know that there are users out there who find TS2010 an excellent program. In my oppinion (and I have been with TRAINZ since before their first release) this the best release so far.
Its not perfect and it still can be improved but, for me, its an excellent upgrade and an excellent program.
And NO!! I am not paid to say this .... I just know that a lot of people who could be enjoying TS2010 are being put off by all the negative comments about a program that I think is fantastic and has given ME a fresh enthusuiam for TRAINZ.
cheers
Michael