TS2010 is the best release so far!!

[Hot_Box_Detector]

Just to help keep a balance on on all the negative TS2010 comments I want to say that, in my opininion, TS2010 is the best release of TRAINZ since TRAINZ itself .... and this is, in part, due to the inclusion of Speedtrees which I find brings TRAINZ alive...

I know that there are users who have had negative experiences with TS2010. However I also know that a lot of users have had no problems with it. I know that there are some bugs that Auran are working on but, overall, I give TS2010 a full thumbs up.

Michael

I'll have to agree. I think many operational problems, mine included, are related to PC hardware/software & housekeeping. Trainz has been the driving force behind my computer upgrades for most of the 1990's. I can never seem to keep up...
I have 04 06,09 & 10 on this HD ( I shelved TC). I suppose the naming of Trains with the year of release is a marketing scheme (planned obsolesence). I do agree with some that we could have stopped with 04 and simply paid a small "upgrade" fee yearly, like buying a FCT. But, N3V games does have to support their revenue stream. Speaking of N3V games, I did notice the absence of the name "Auran" on my boxed copy of 2010...also missing from the header of this forum.
Mike

 

[Paul_Bert]

I've been a Trainz fan for over 6 years. Version 2004 has been my 'go back to' version even after purchasing versions 2006 and 2009. Version 2009 was a great improvement, for me at least over 2006 because of improved sound. I could run most everything in compatibility mode with better performance than I had in 2004.

But I agree with Michael and John that TS2010, especially in native mode, is the best version ever. I have been using it for almost 2 months now and it a great step forward. The only reason for me to go back to version 2004 anymore is to transfer over some of my legacy routes into TS2010.

I have not had any crashes, the framerates are much improved, the graphics are improved, and the speedtrees give a glimpse into the future of what is possible. (I am running TS2010 only in native mode with error free content.) And all of this for less than a dinner out with a family of four.

Two thumbs up to Chris and the development team at Trainz for their innovative and hard work to make TS2010 a major step forward. Also thanks to all the independent developers who are working on content that will further enhance this release.

 

[Winglessbird]

Where have they gone now?

Hi All,
I have read every post and can understand those who are happy and those who are not.As I have stated elsewhere verbal slanging achieves nothing in the long run.
My only question now is,when are Auran staff going to start talking to people like they did in the old days? Here we have people asking genuine questions,and guess what, theres no one around!! Quiet is it not?Dont be deceived by my join date.That is something else Im waiting to be fixed!!!
Rusti

 

[WindWalkr]

My only question now is,when are Auran staff going to start talking to people like they did in the old days? Here we have people asking genuine questions,and guess what, theres no one around!!

Actually we still talk a fair bit

chris

 

[Winglessbird]

Actually we still talk a fair bit

chris[/quote

Hmmmn,
Hi Chris.Mate you should know that Lurking is not good for your health.Mate if you have contact with Zec,could you please tell him Im missing my fun times on the DLS,and could he please fix my old account as I have sent the info he asked for.
Sorry Sirgibby,but I try never to let a chance slip by.
Regards Rusti

 

[falcon500]

While TS2010 may be the best Trainz version released, can't agree that Speedtrees is one of the reasons. If you take a good hard look at a lot of these you'll see many are way oversize, others don't look like the real trees.
Try placing a person beside some of these and see, or check the birches to name only one they don't have great thick trunks. The only group of trees that seem to be reasonably realistic are the African ones acacias and baobabs. Palms not too bad. But for most of the rest they seem to have been made with an "anything will do as long as it looks something vaguely like a tree". Really some are verging on the grotesque. The wind movement isn't all that noticeable after awhile. I had sneaking suspicion that Speedtrees were included with TS2010 because 3rd party creators hadn't made enough trees to release an Engineers Edition. Or is that being a bit cynical?
Sure there is a lot to like about TS2010, great draw distance, great graphics, excellent frame rates. But anyone who has even a little knowledge of trees would find the majority of Speedtrees laughable.

 

[paulzmay]

I think to say the majority of speedtrees are laughable is a bit harsh. I make it more like a third...

It would be a great bonus to have some more, and more variety, and either less wind or configurable wind. I think the guys in Brisbane need to realise that Australia is a relatively windy country, so the level of wind they commonly see is rare (and seasonal) in Europe (for instance).

Paul

 

[sirgibby]

anyone who has even a little knowledge of trees would find the majority of Speedtrees laughable.

Well, again, its good that we all have the freedom to be different.

Personally I find the Speedtrees outstanding, not perfect, but outstanding.
As a layout builder the animated high-quality trees ADD A BREATH OF LIFE to my layout biulding.

I wouldn't use them all, and theres more variety that I would like, but ... to me ... what Speedtrees I have been given help to make TS2010 the best release yet.

the level of wind they commonly see is rare (and seasonal) in Europe

Living in New Zealand the movement of the trees is entirely believable.
However I do agree that when the leaves are gone and the trees are bare the SPEEDTREES thrash around too much. With no leaves to catch the wind they would not move around as much as a tree with full foliage.
Mind you this does not in the slightest keep me from fully enjoying them in the other seasons.

cheers
Michael

 

[EdrickV]

While TS2010 may be the best Trainz version released, can't agree that Speedtrees is one of the reasons. If you take a good hard look at a lot of these you'll see many are way oversize, others don't look like the real trees.
Try placing a person beside some of these and see, or check the birches to name only one they don't have great thick trunks. The only group of trees that seem to be reasonably realistic are the African ones acacias and baobabs. Palms not too bad. But for most of the rest they seem to have been made with an "anything will do as long as it looks something vaguely like a tree". Really some are verging on the grotesque. The wind movement isn't all that noticeable after awhile. I had sneaking suspicion that Speedtrees were included with TS2010 because 3rd party creators hadn't made enough trees to release an Engineers Edition. Or is that being a bit cynical?
Sure there is a lot to like about TS2010, great draw distance, great graphics, excellent frame rates. But anyone who has even a little knowledge of trees would find the majority of Speedtrees laughable.

You know, I've seen lots of talk about SpeedTrees being too big. If it's really such an issue, why not fix it?
Just clone one and play with the scale till it's the size you want. If you want to get fancy, you could use the mesh-asset tag and create modified SpeedTrees that consist only of config.txt files so you don't have to mess around with the meshes or textures. Take a look at Tree StressedPine 02 <kuid:523:1317> for an example. I haven't checked all the trees out (since my video card is a bit old to be using lots of them and I'm nowhere near that point in my route building) but I checked out one of the pine trees that I thought was oversized, placing it next to an office building to get an idea how tall it was, and it turned out that it was within that tree's size range. I'm not so sure about some of the non-tree plants, (which I only recently looked at) but I haven't looked them up online yet either.

 

[skyking20]

Settling Down

First I want to saw Auran is an awesome company. I bought the beta of 2009 back in late 2008. I just last week (don't ask its a long story) got around to downloading my released version of 2009 as it was still sitting there waiting for me along with my voucher for 2010!

Now I have mildly fooled around with Trainz since the first edition but never got as into it as I want to now. So I have a couple of questions.

What is the real differences between 2010 and 2009? 2010 lets you build routes and it sounds like the tools are better (layers etc). If I get 2010 should I uninstall 2009?

Also can you update older routes to the quality (those pics are impressive) of 2010? I am looking for American Ng routes and The Hungry Horse Timber Company.

I am looking forward to interacting on this forum. You guys all seem very knowledgeable!

TIA

skyking20

 

[sparky15]

I'll probably get flamed for this but here goes.

RailWorks is everything Trainz lacks visually and graphics wise.
Trainz is everything RailWorks lacks operationally and content wise.
"Surveyor" between the two are more alike than different.

Personally I would like to see Auran "finish" 09/10 and abandon Trainz in it's current state. A merger of these two games would have many benefits to us users. Auran has the programming staff to improve and modify RW. RW has the creators available to convert, create or upgrade content. The two are closer than it seems.

Trainz users will get their much needed graphics change, RW users would get their much needed operations and content improvements. The DLS could remain as is for the backwards compatibility for older versions and those who continue to create for them. A new section added for the new sim. No more backwards mess in game. As a bonus all those creating for RW, and their users, would expand the user base.

Probably off the wall but hey, at least I'm trying to be positive this time.

Dave.....

 

[johnwhelan]

I'll probably get flamed for this but here goes.

RailWorks is everything Trainz lacks visually and graphics wise.
Trainz is everything RailWorks lacks operationally and content wise.
"Surveyor" between the two are more alike than different.

Personally I would like to see Auran "finish" 09/10 and abandon Trainz in it's current state. A merger of these two games would have many benefits to us users. Auran has the programming staff to improve and modify RW. RW has the creators available to convert, create or upgrade content. The two are closer than it seems.

Trainz users will get their much needed graphics change, RW users would get their much needed operations and content improvements. The DLS could remain as is for the backwards compatibility for older versions and those who continue to create for them. A new section added for the new sim. No more backwards mess in game. As a bonus all those creating for RW, and their users, would expand the user base.

Probably off the wall but hey, at least I'm trying to be positive this time.

Dave.....

I'm missing something here. Railworks has a few reasonable locos and carriages but I don't think TS2010 is missing these. Looked at la trainz en France recently?

http://www.lafranceentrains.com/lab...d=112&osCsid=d0e962c90556de2236c22a1bc255fab6

There is some very good locos and rolling stock now available for TS2010.

Change the graphics engine and you lose the ability to use all the existing content, so you'd end up with nothing except maybe a few locos and rolling stock that work in Railworks today.

Not a flame I just don't understand your logic. Oh it takes about two years for a programmer to become proficient in a particular environment so even if Auran took over Railworks there it would take a year or two to sort out the software.

Cheerio John

 

[alazose]

I remember the days of the older Auran Forums (before November of 2006 when this current Forum came into existence) where there were countless comparisons of Trainz to Microsoft Train Simulator. Most of these comparisons gave Trainz the nod as being the better of the two, but there were always some who stated that they were going to jump ship and buy MTS because Trainz wasn’t providing them with every little bell and whistle and knick-knack that they wanted or expected, or the support wasn’t there, or promises were unkept, etc. etc..

Times haven’t changed. MTS is long gone, but it seems that Auran’s chief competitor these days is Railworks, lurking there in the background just waiting to grab all the unhappy Trainzers who aren’t getting their way. Not much we can do about that I suppose, except let the dust settle and see who comes out on top. In the meantime, I’m enjoying TS2010 immensely, and that enjoyment is enhanced immeasurably by the addition of Speedtrees. The only thing wrong with Speedtrees, IMHO, is that there aren’t enough of them.

 

[Paulsw2]

I'm gradually 'easing' into TS10 (ie. I haven't rushed to move over my 'local' folder from TC3) and, as the proud owner of an ATI card, I certainly have my issues with the new version of the game.

However, I think this is probably the best version of the game so far. I transfered over my first 'home grown' layout from TC3 the other day and the framerates just immediately doubled! I don't know if this performance will continue (interestingly, this layout has no foliage yet, the reason I thought it was suitable for transfer), but TS10 does have the 'feel' of the kind of Trainz I've always dreamed of having (you know, loads of stuff and built-up areas, but still smooth performance).

I've argued for years that we need a version of the game that can re-unify the community around a version that 'works' and TS10 could do this, but it is vital that Auran:
(a) stay focused on this version of the game and seek to improve it over the next 18 months before considering releasing another version;
(b) sort out the Download Station so that corrected assets suitable for TS09/10 native mode are available. It must be bewildering for new users, unfamiliar with the ways of Trainz, who have bought TS10 and start downloading from the DLS only to find that assets require 'fixing'. If they are not on these forums, as most are not, how will they work that out? Frankly, I'd be tempted to purge the DLS of all 'legacy' content that isn't or can't be corrected to work in TS09/10. Supporting backward compatibility and 'legacy' versions of the game is fine, but becomes commercial suicide if it incentivises users to refuse to adopt newer, more developed versions of the game.

I can certainly understand why many Trainz users are extremely frustrated by Auran's chaotic business model that has brought us 5 different versions of the game in less than five years. If I'd bought TS09 I'd be pretty fed up with what's happened (having bought TC3, I've had a glimpse of how they feel). It's important for Auran to understand that, if they issue further new versions of the game in the next 12 to 18 months simply in order to generate cash flow, they risk completely alienating their customer base and the asset creators who've played a major role in the development of this game.

We've got enough versions of Trainz! We need to concentrate on making TS10 the most definitive and popular since TRS04.

Paul (doing the vision thing...)

 

[Paulsw2]

It's important for Auran to understand that, if they issue further new versions of the game in the next 12 to 18 months simply in order to generate cash flow, they risk completely alienating their customer base and the asset creators who've played a major role in the development of this game.

I should add that I completely understand Auran's need to generate cashflow as a small company struggling for survival in a mean economic environment. But surely a better business model, rather than just issuing a plethora of new versions of the game that just confuse and alienate everyone, would be to issue a series of add-on or expansion packs for TS10 over the next 18 months that would (a) generate cashflow for the company, (b) incentivise users and creators to adopte TS10 as the new Trainz 'standard'.

After 18 months or so, most people would be ready for the next upgrade and then TS12 could be offered to the market. That way we re-unify the Trainz community around one version of the game and then move them on to the next as it is developed. Simples!

Paul

 

[sparky15]

John, no flame taken. I think you understand what I'm saying despite my wording. Paul's last post pretty much hit it.

If I were a new purchaser, I would probably be happy with the version I've complained about here. Since I'm not, each new version comes with frustrations that out weigh supposed improvements as far as content and compatibility.

Each new version is released in the shadow of the DLS, even your mention of older content reflects this. This backwards compatibility is just frustrating a lot of people. If they want to move this product forward they should just do it without relying on the DLS. What's there is there, trying to fit it in new versions that reject some of it by design is a lesson in futility. You can't have both. 09 is packed with content from 06 and has to be run in compatibility mode. 10 is released with most of the same content finally updated for native mode or the game patched to display it properly. SpeedTree was introduced for what I see as a stop gap for trees that should have been in place before releasing 09. For what? The DLS, some of which can be touch and go as far as will work.

If scrapping the game engine is the cost of progress they should just do it. Problem is they rely on third party for any content, therefore stuck. Any real progress will need an infusion of new content, not milking the DLS. My whim wasn't about making the two sims, RW and Trainz, compatible. It was about two small companies combining resources to produce a substantial train sim product instead of competing. Why waste time "fixing" older content when you could use those resources to create something new. A true upgrade instead of a rehash at the cost of older content so we can stop muddling around in between.

For the first time in several years the seller will have to do that first instead of waiting for the community to give it to them. There is a lot to like about the two new versions. They would be much better if they would lose the promise of backwards compatibility and start fresh.

Dave...

 

[amigacooke]

If scrapping the game engine is the cost of progress they should just do it. Problem is they rely on third party for any content, therefore stuck. Any real progress will need an infusion of new content, not milking the DLS.

I wonder how much you would be prepared to pay for a product like this? Numerous companies have tried to make a profit in the train sim/game area, but there are only two (and maybe Zusi) left standing. I don't think the economics are in our favour.

 

[johnwhelan]

John, no flame taken. I think you understand what I'm saying despite my wording. Paul's last post pretty much hit it.

If I were a new purchaser, I would probably be happy with the version I've complained about here. Since I'm not, each new version comes with frustrations that out weigh supposed improvements as far as content and compatibility.

Each new version is released in the shadow of the DLS, even your mention of older content reflects this. This backwards compatibility is just frustrating a lot of people. If they want to move this product forward they should just do it without relying on the DLS. What's there is there, trying to fit it in new versions that reject some of it by design is a lesson in futility. You can't have both. 09 is packed with content from 06 and has to be run in compatibility mode. 10 is released with most of the same content finally updated for native mode or the game patched to display it properly. SpeedTree was introduced for what I see as a stop gap for trees that should have been in place before releasing 09. For what? The DLS, some of which can be touch and go as far as will work.

If scrapping the game engine is the cost of progress they should just do it. Problem is they rely on third party for any content, therefore stuck. Any real progress will need an infusion of new content, not milking the DLS. My whim wasn't about making the two sims, RW and Trainz, compatible. It was about two small companies combining resources to produce a substantial train sim product instead of competing. Why waste time "fixing" older content when you could use those resources to create something new. A true upgrade instead of a rehash at the cost of older content so we can stop muddling around in between.

For the first time in several years the seller will have to do that first instead of waiting for the community to give it to them. There is a lot to like about the two new versions. They would be much better if they would lose the promise of backwards compatibility and start fresh.

Dave...

At what cost though? Currently Trainz even has GWR Broad gauge content although I suspect this is a minority taste. Good content takes time to research, create and test, say an average of 200 hours per asset, at $35 per hour to include overheads, but isn't really a wonderful rate of pay, you are looking at $7,000 per asset. 100,000 assets plus on the DLS by $7,000 each $700,000,000 that's a lot of cash for even two small companies combined to come up with.

Then how many would buy it? When I create I often do a TC3 version and a lower quality TRS2004 version. The download counts on the TRS2004 version are much higher than the TC3 versions.

Cheerio John

 

[sparky15]

Price wise, if you look at the progression of the current versions, the same as 09/10 combined, pretty much where it would seem I'm at now if I continue with 09 and not go back to 06/TC. IF it worked out of the box without a hidden need to upgrade again later I would pay that all day.

As far as who, don't count out a large MSTS community itching for something new as well. They won't budge until they find something suitable.

These guys like RW for the graphics but won't touch it because of the signaling and AI.
They also won't touch Trainz because of the graphics and stigma of being a model railroad simulator, but do acknowledge it's AI capabilities. A very large and untapped market with a large library of it's own. Some of whom would gladly convert their content, and have already done so, if one could suit their needs.

Combining with another company may or may not be a good idea. But an overhaul of the graphics over these small increments, that we pay for in each version, may be better in the long run. Its been noticed in other sim communities as well and puts many off. Its also frustrating many current users, I'm not the only one I'm sure.

Dave.....

Again, you mentioned all the assets on the DLS. No need for over 100,000 to begin. A suitable amount to begin with "in the box", just like any other version. A separate section of the DLS for the new stuff as its made and allow the older content to stay. Let each continue to grow or fade on their own. No affect on those who continue with the older versions and can still upload if they like.

 

[johnwhelan]

Again, you mentioned all the assets on the DLS. No need for over 100,000 to begin. A suitable amount to begin with "in the box", just like any other version. A separate section of the DLS for the new stuff as its made and allow the older content to stay. Let each continue to grow or fade on their own. No affect on those who continue with the older versions and can still upload if they like.

So which set of users are you going to alienate by saying the bit of the DLS they like isn't important enough to be redone?

If it was up to me I'd say anything after 1930 isn't important and certainly anything not UK based.

Cheerio John