TS12 trashes my Windows 7 64bit?

[teddytoot]

My electronic engineer son, while down here on trials, built up my new computer in the old case and installed and updated Windows 7 64bit (my previous PC was 32 bit). When he left I started to re-install my software. As he works in the Defence Industry I cannot reach him again until he is back home in Wales (200 miles away). The spec of the new computer is:

Mobo Asus P8Z77-V
CPU Intel i5-3570K
RAM 8GB Corsair Vengeance
GPU Gainward GTX670
Drive C Samsung 830 SSD 128GB for system and programs that insist on loading there.
Drive D Samsung 830 SSD 256GB for Trainz only
Drive E 1GB partition of 3GB Seagate Barracuda HDD for everything else
Drive F DVD

Everything went OK until I loaded TS12 on Drive D and had a trial drive with the train session in the urban program (I can't remember the name as I am on my wife's laptop). Three quarters round the loop everything froze and I could do nothing. I was just about to press reset when the blue screen of death appeared briefly and the computer rebooted. However it only got as far as the black windows starting screen with the coloured square on it and froze. This happened every time I tried.

I then inserted the Windows 7 DVD and got as far as the first screen. I selected Repair and after a long time the repair screen came up but it had only found Windows 7 on drive F. Also it froze at this point with the eternal rotating blue circle. It looks as if the only choice is a re-install and the loss of four days work. However before doing that I am hoping that one of the PC experts on the forum can offer any suggestion as to why this could have happened as no other program was running apart from any background ones and I don't want a repeat performance.

One final request. To keep this thread short, please do not post unless you can offer some useful help. Thankyou.

 

[gawpo50]

My electronic engineer son, while down here on trials, built up my new computer in the old case and installed and updated Windows 7 64bit (my previous PC was 32 bit). When he left I started to re-install my software. As he works in the Defence Industry I cannot reach him again until he is back home in Wales (200 miles away). The spec of the new computer is:

Mobo Asus P8Z77-V
CPU Intel i5-3570K
RAM 8GB Corsair Vengeance
GPU Gainward GTX670
Drive C Samsung 830 SSD 128GB for system and programs that insist on loading there.
Drive D Samsung 830 SSD 256GB for Trainz only
Drive E 1GB partition of 3GB Seagate Barracuda HDD for everything else
Drive F DVD

Everything went OK until I loaded TS12 on Drive D and had a trial drive with the train session in the urban program (I can't remember the name as I am on my wife's laptop). Three quarters round the loop everything froze and I could do nothing. I was just about to press reset when the blue screen of death appeared briefly and the computer rebooted. However it only got as far as the black windows starting screen with the coloured square on it and froze. This happened every time I tried.

I then inserted the Windows 7 DVD and got as far as the first screen. I selected Repair and after a long time the repair screen came up but it had only found Windows 7 on drive F. Also it froze at this point with the eternal rotating blue circle. It looks as if the only choice is a re-install and the loss of four days work. However before doing that I am hoping that one of the PC experts on the forum can offer any suggestion as to why this could have happened as no other program was running apart from any background ones and I don't want a repeat performance.

One final request. To keep this thread short, please do not post unless you can offer some useful help. Thankyou.

Firstly, you should change the title of your post....TRS does not trash computers, not possible.

From what you are describing, being as this is a brand new system, it sounds like your primary SSD has failed. If you still have your HDD with the previous windows install on it, try plugging it in and see how far you get through the boot process. Another possibility is you have had a failure of the drive controller on the motherboard, uncommon but I have had it happen to me with an ASUS board, hence the reason I don't use ASUS any more. Apart from that, without more details, it is a little hard to give a reasonable answer to your problem.

Peter

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi John

It may not be Trainz that is causing this problem. Earlier this year I had something similar with my old computer starting to lock up, mainly when running Trainz, but also when I was on the Internet. My first thought was that it was a graphics card issue and a new ATI 6870 card seemed to cure it for a week but the problem then returned. I then replaced the power supply in case it was a bit underpowered but again the problem came back after a few days. After running various test programs which all found no problems I finally bit the bullet and rebuilt the whole thing. While things have improved considerably now I still get the odd lock up, never when running Trainz but usually when on the Internet.

I went back to some old graphics card drivers from before the time when the problem started for the new build and, while things have improved considerably now, I still get the odd lock up when on the Internet. Trainz however runs without a hitch.

I suspect some form of software conflict but I have exhausted my computer knowledge and haven't been able to find a complete solution. It has never caused an issue like you are having however as I have always been able to boot into windows immediately after a lock up without any trouble.

I'm sorry I can't give you a solution but I thought I would let you know that you are not alone with this type of issue.

My computer is

Mobo Gigabyte GA-Z68AP-D3
Intel i5-2500K
6 Gb Ram
Powercolour 6870 1 Gb Graphics Card
C: Samsung 830 SSD 128 Gb
D: Samsung 830 SSD 256 Gb for Trainz 2012 only
A couple of old HDD for general storage and a DVD drive.
Win 7 64 bit

It's very similar to your setup and it runs great between lockups.

Regards

Brian

 

[clam1952]

Very similar set up to what I have just built here, P8H77-V LE, only using OCZ SSD's and keeping my GTX460 and using an i7 3770k and 16GB.

May not be the same problem as I had however.
It literally took me a week to get the system running properly, loads of problems with Windows updates, didn't help that Win7 was apparently downloading updates for AMD64! then it got stuck in a loop, reverting windows updates, this resulted several times in a frozen system.
OK at this point, worth mentioning that when I initially installed, Win7 Pro with SP1, I hadn't got internet access, no ethernet driver at this point so couldn't download the install updates.
After trying every fix on the internet for screwed up Windows updates, did find I had a corrupted dot net install. I decided this time to reinstall but did it as an upgrade, to avoid having to reinstall everything again.

Started from within Windows which I had finally got to start, sometimes it did sometimes it didn't and froze. This time setup was able to download the installer updates, System now up and running, downloaded the Windows updates again, not all at once but around ten at a time, no problems and everything now behaving normally including Trainz.

I'm inclined to think it was the failure of the setup to download updates for the installer, probably related to newer hardware.

Tip.
Been caught out by Windows repair a while back.
If attempting a Windows repair and you have any other drives with a copy of windows on it or that has had windows on it, disconnect them, avoids the wrong one getting fixed, even by selecting the correct drive I have ended up with the boot on the system drive and trying to run Windows on D drive, which hadn't got anything on it but had previously been used as a system drive and on another occasion booting to the wrong copy.

 

[djt]

It literally took me a week to get the system running properly, loads of problems with Windows updates, didn't help that Win7 was apparently downloading updates for AMD64! then it got stuck in a loop, reverting windows updates, this resulted several times in a frozen system.

The updates that refer to AMD64 are just another term for 64-bit processor whether it’s AMD or Intel.

Using the same procedure I’ve used for the last ten years for installing Windows I’ve never seen any of issues you’re describing with Windows updates. I just reformatted two machines this past week with Windows 7 Ultimate 64/SP1 and experienced absolutely no issues with updating the operating systems.

If you follow Intel’s recommended procedure for Windows installation and driver installation you shouldn’t have any problems.

Here’s a Windows OS install guide that follows Intel’s recommended procedure and can be used for any Windows OS.

http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34558

 

[William0d0]

Since it's a new computer and your problems extend well beyond Trainz (win 7 only seeing the F: drive) the first thing I would do is thoroughly inspect all of the cable connections.

Make sure all cards, mem sticks etc are seated firmly.

These things have bit me in the past.

 

[shaneturner12]

I would also suggest looking in Disk Management as well, in case there's a drive letter duplication issue.

Disk Management can be reached by right-clicking Computer in the Start Menu, then clicking Manage.

Shane

 

[clam1952]

The updates that refer to AMD64 are just another term for 64-bit processor whether it’s AMD or Intel.

Using the same procedure I’ve used for the last ten years for installing Windows I’ve never seen any of issues you’re describing with Windows updates. I just reformatted two machines this past week with Windows 7 Ultimate 64/SP1 and experienced absolutely no issues with updating the operating systems.

If you follow Intel’s recommended procedure for Windows installation and driver installation you shouldn’t have any problems.

With respect I have been building and maintaining Computers since the 80's, I do actually know a problem when I get one, which isn't very often, OK so the AMD64 may not have been relevant however that's when the problems started started midway through the updates. This isn't the first Install I have ever done of Win7 or any other version of Windows or any other operating system you care to name. I've actually done a clean install on this PC yesterday and that was problem free.

 

[djt]

With respect I have been building and maintaining Computers since the 80's, I do actually know a problem when I get one, which isn't very often, OK so the AMD64 may not have been relevant however that's when the problems started started midway through the updates. This isn't the first Install I have ever done of Win7 or any other version of Windows or any other operating system you care to name. I've actually done a clean install on this PC yesterday and that was problem free.

With respect I’ve seen plenty of people out there that have been building and maintaining computers for very long time but still don’t know how to properly install an OS, nothing new, the forums are full of them.

How exactly did you install it, explaining the steps from reformat, driver installation to Windows updates? What drivers did you install before going on-line and updating the OS?

 

[fran1]

I'm guessing the SSD's are in PCI-e type slots. Take D out and put C in it's place ( or an empty slot if you have one), if it still doesn't boot I'd go with the SSD has failed.
If it goes in a 3.5" bay switch the power leads and connectors.

 

[djt]

I'm guessing the SSD's are in PCI-e type slots.

Why would the SSD’s be in PCI-e type slots and not on the native Intel SATA III controller?

 

[clam1952]

With respect I’ve seen plenty of people out there that have been building and maintaining computers for very long time but still don’t know how to properly install an OS, nothing new, the forums are full of them.

How exactly did you install it, explaining the steps from reformat, driver installation to Windows updates? What drivers did you install before going on-line and updating the OS?

You have a nerve, the same was as any one who knows what they are doing and thats all you are getting. Having seen the disruption you have caused in virtually every technical thread you have posted on in here, If you think I'm indulging in one of your childish I know more than you games you are out of luck.

I had a problem I fixed it, end of conversation.

 

[djt]

You have a nerve, the same was as any one who knows what they are doing and thats all you are getting.

Just a simple question, I asked a moderator in another train-game forum who claimed to have extensive computer hardware experience about how he installed an OS and he flat out told me it was beyond his capability.

You said you have experience using Linux, what about the various 64-bit versions that for years are designated as xxxx-amd64.iso? Does that mean I can’t install the Ubuntu 12.10 amd64.iso on a system using a 64-bit Intel processor?

Having seen the disruption you have caused in virtually every technical thread you have posted on in here

Has it been disruption or just disputing misinformation?

Good luck to you clam on your future computer hardware endeavors.

 

[William0d0]

I'm guessing the SSD's are in PCI-e type slots. Take D out and put C in it's place ( or an empty slot if you have one), if it still doesn't boot I'd go with the SSD has failed.
If it goes in a 3.5" bay switch the power leads and connectors.

There are PCI SSD's but most are SATA.

 

[djt]

There are PCI SSD's but most are SATA.

The Samsung 830's are SATA III, I've got two of them with the 840's on the way.

 

[pcas1986]

Like others have said I have been building and rebuilding computers for years. In one rebuild the motherboard had a very intermittent fault but exhibited characteristics similar to the original post. I put up with it for months and then gave up and replaced it with another. My guess is that there is a hardware fault somewhere. My current system is very stable and I have added two SSDs to it. I use an SSD for Win 7 and another for Trainz.

If it were me I would remove the second SSD and the Seagate Barracuda and run the computer for a week or so to see if it is stable. Then add the SSD and run it for a while and then add the Barracuda. This may give some problems with drive lettering but you can go into the system and relabel them.

 

[teddytoot]

Thanks for all the replies. I am now typing this on my PC.

@gawpo50 There was a question mark at the end of my title.

The SSDs are SATA3 and connected to those sockets.

Last night on trying it again, it decided to go on from the starting window and do a checksum on Drive E (the HDD). By cancelling this, Windows booted up OK so it looks as if the HDD has corrupted. I can still access it and have backed up its contents so will now reformat it to see if this cures the problem.

I do now notice another anomaly. Explorer shows Drive D (the Trainz SSD) as empty but Trainz still works! My son couldn't offer any help on this so is there any cure for this other than reformatting. As neither of us has had experience of using SSDs before, is there any special technique or precaution in reformatting a SSD. I know one must never defrag them.

Once again thanks for the help.

 

[clam1952]

Is the drive showing space available in Explorer and does it equate to the space that would be left after a Trainz install?
Possibly the files have somehow got hidden and are not showing up? Control Panel > Appearance and settings > Folder Options > Advanced Settings > tick Show Hidden Files Folders and Drives > click OK see if they appear then? Quickest way to unhide is open a command prompt type D: then enter, then type attrib *.* -H /S /D then enter, which will unhide everything.

Formatting, assuming the disk has been initialised, is no different to any other drive. As it has a drive letter and Trainz is working on it although invisible, it must have been initialised.

I'd be inclined to format it in case there is some corruption.

 

[pcas1986]

...
I do now notice another anomaly. Explorer shows Drive D (the Trainz SSD) as empty but Trainz still works! My son couldn't offer any help on this so is there any cure for this other than reformatting. As neither of us has had experience of using SSDs before, is there any special technique or precaution in reformatting a SSD. I know one must never defrag them.

...

AFAIK SSDs are treated just like any drive or at least I do! Your comment regarding SSD defragging is interesting since I hadn't seen that before and am curious why. But I seldom defrag these days anyway given the size of (rotating) hard disks. I'd be more inclined to defrag a 128mb SSD than a 3GB hard disk.

I'm a bit puzzled why Explorer would show the drive as empty but your shortcut/icon link to Trainz still works. At the system level both must use the same information. Something else must be wrong. But, since you are in re-installation mode, I'm inclined to agree with Clam1952 and try a re-installation of Trainz.

Note that when I added an SSD to my system strictly for Trainz purposes, I just copied the whole thing across from my previous (rotating) hard disk. Apart from changing a few links in some icons, Trainz continued to work fine.

I'm starting to get a little nervous about updating my own system to Win 8. I bought a couple of licences a few days ago but they remain in the box.

 

[shaneturner12]

Re the non-defragging, this is due to the type of memory used in a SSD, that can only be written to a limited number of times. Defragging would cause more writing than if it was not defragged, which if done enough times will severely reduce the drive's lifespan.

Shane