TS12-ANN: Is AMD Radeon HD 6570 okay for TS12?

A fair bit of your shuttering can come from low 2GB Ram and under on your video card and also wether it is a 64bit 128bit 256bit or 384bit video card the high bit and ram size the less bottle necking.

The GTX680 is a 256bit with only 2GB of vram so it creates bottle necks, one would imagine that those specs are plenty! well they are are if you run the game straight out of the box and don't add anything to it most of the time,
but for the person who wishes to add to a route or creat you own large route with heaps of assets {it is not enough}

So lets dispence with this crap about Fanboys either way, truth is Nvidia hardly ever come out with a 384bit video card or give that card more that 2GB VRAM right here is a big problem with Trainz and shuttering, yes Nvidia Titan has 6GB DDR 5 Vram
at 384 bit, but ATI AMD video cards have well over 2GB DDR 5 VRam on most of there cards and have had 384bit even on there 2gb cards for God knows how long now.

So when it come to shuttering there is a big possibility it is your video card not the game
 
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The GTX680 is a 256bit with only 2GB of vram so it creates bottle necks

wow, you are so full of crap... saying that so powerfull card have to stutter in such old game as this...
from the system req for the game

Processor: Pentium D 3.4GHz (or equiv)
Memory: 1 GB RAM
Hard disk space: 16 GB of hard drive space
Video: nVidia GeForce 7200/128MB or equivalent

we have now PCs that are at least 4 times more powerfull in each aspect if not not more yet the game lags and move like crap... and they you come and say that you have to lag but you know what... what is the point of playing then? im not fancy looking on slideshow
it kinda pisses me off as i bought this game and can't even try to play it as driving anywhere is giving me huge headache

and srlsy... its your card not the game... lol... just lol... so what card i need to have to run it good? SLI Titan? Xfire 7990? i could run Crysis 3 in 4K on it but i can't run TS12 with let's not be afraid to say it, poor graphics... and again the system req for this game is nv 7200, which was 64bit with 256mb DDR2...

and actually i've found the problem that stands behind it, as i get low fps on my GTX460 and 965BE is that my gpu is used in 25% and cpu in like 35%, so i wonder about any fixes for that...
 
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wow, you are so full of crap... saying that so powerfull card have to stutter in such old game as this...
from the system req for the game

Processor: Pentium D 3.4GHz (or equiv)
Memory: 1 GB RAM
Hard disk space: 16 GB of hard drive space
Video: nVidia GeForce 7200/128MB or equivalent

we have now PCs that are at least 4 times more powerfull in each aspect if not not more yet the game lags and move like crap... and they you come and say that you have to lag but you know what... what is the point of playing then? im not fancy looking on slideshow
it kinda pisses me off as i bought this game and can't even try to play it as driving anywhere is giving me huge headache

and srlsy... its your card not the game... lol... just lol... so what card i need to have to run it good? SLI Titan? Xfire 7990? i could run Crysis 3 in 4K on it but i can't run TS12 with let's not be afraid to say it, poor graphics... and again the system req for this game is nv 7200, which was 64bit with 256mb DDR2...

and actually i've found the problem that stands behind it, as i get low fps on my GTX460 and 965BE is that my gpu is used in 25% and cpu in like 35%, so i wonder about any fixes for that...

Trainz isn't a game as such but a sim with lots of user created content, the difference is with a game professionals have a poly budget per screen shot and stay within Trainz doesn't. So if you carefully select your assets and run with the sliders to the right it will run on the recommended hardware. Realistically any hardware you come up with I can select a few assets from the DLS that will bring the machine to its knees. Typically content creators make something that runs on their machine and some of their machines are quite high end, so when N3V brings out TS12 then the content creators simply add polys to make their assets look more realistic.

To reasonably accommodate end user created content that doesn't always have lod or has multiple textures or even just a high poly count I'd say you need something of the order of a HD5850 with a gig of memory or better, 64 bit and 5 gigs or more of main memory and even then you have to watch out for the really demanding assets and avoid them. Some users run Trainz successfully on lap tops but the equivalent money will always buy better performance in a desktop.

Normally Trainz runs on two cores and will run 100% CPU usage on at least one of those cores.

There have been some discussions about the game engine and the consensus seems to be it would be nice but we don't think N3V can afford to develop it.

Cheerio John
 
Slightly better http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html however I would agree that both are optimistic.

Cheerio John

its gf 7200, not gtx 720... the recomended card is lightyears old...
HD6570 is something around GTX460SE


To reasonably accommodate end user created content that doesn't always have lod or has multiple textures or even just a high poly count I'd say you need something of the order of a HD5850 with a gig of memory or better, 64 bit and 5 gigs or more of main memory and even then you have to watch out for the really demanding assets and avoid them. Some users run Trainz successfully on lap tops but the equivalent money will always buy better performance in a desktop.

well HD5850 is really similiar to GTX460 same results in different tests, anyway i dont use any mods, i have only clean instalation of trainz and i try to run the tracks that come with the game
i can move the details/AA sliders and nothing happens, the game gets a little nicer but i still have the same FPS with the same 0,5s stop each like 10s or when i want to turn camera 180deg, the only thing that is reducing performance is distance draw which is understandable
also i moved trainz to my SSD to reduce the loading times but nothing really changed... tried to run in compability mode with XP and admin rights also nothing changed... tommorow i think ill try with win7 compability maybe something will change...
 
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its gf 7200, not gtx 720... the recomended card is lightyears old...
HD6570 is something around GTX460SE




well HD5850 is really similiar to GTX460 same results in different tests, anyway i dont use any mods, i have only clean instalation of trainz and i try to run the tracks that come with the game
i can move the details/AA sliders and nothing happens, the game gets a little nicer but i still have the same FPS with the same 0,5s stop each like 10s or when i want to turn camera 180deg, the only thing that is reducing performance is distance draw which is understandable
also i moved trainz to my SSD to reduce the loading times but nothing really changed... tried to run in compability mode with XP and admin rights also nothing changed... tommorow i think ill try with win7 compability maybe something will change...

I think the default is OpenGL but switching to directX can make a major difference it does depend on the card but try it in the options.

Cheerio John
 
Hey makabrax
I know im full of crap my wife tells me all the time and it is always best just to agree with them, with that said and done, what are the spec's of your computer,
i have Gigabyte mobo which means Motherboard. GA-Z68X-UD7-B3, Intel 2600k CPU, Ram DDR3 21000 12GB, Video card Sapphire 7970 6gb GH Edition, SSD 256 GB
I have 2 Sapphire 5970 dual GPU's 2gb video cards, also i have 2 Nvidia GTX 9800 1GB Video cards, 2 Nvidia GTX 580 1.5GB Video cards
1 Sapphire 6970 i think 3gb Video card, and 2 Sapphire 7970 3gb oc video cards and 2 Nvidia GTX 8800 Video cards.
I have no stutters shutter freezing or sneezing, Maybe your computer isn't as good as you think it is, but each to there own.
There is a lot of parts as in hardware that come in to play here and if one is not up to scratch then that will not help at all, many people use there computers without knowing that they have a stick of Ram faulty and wonder why it isn't running right or a bit sluggish or blue screening.
there is one stand-out factor with all my video card from the Sapphire 6970 up they all are 384bit
It is so easy to say it is the game.
All these video cards have been tested in the same machine with all the same parts in that machine.
If you say you are running the game straight from the install and it is shuttering, then id say something is wrong with your computer provided you have half decent hardware.
So if you had all these video cards to test on 1 machine and the one's it ran best on was the 384bit video card what would your conclussion be and all tested on the same route.
Simple test put an old video card in and see how your route runs compared to a more up to date video card, now imagine what would happen if all your part were updated

signed
full of crap
 
i just upgraded my video card, but i was using a 4890 on trainz 12 at 1280x1024, and on normal settings did most everything with 30 to 80 FPS in mojavi run without much stutter. right now i'm using a 7970, no card overclocking, at 2560x1440 maxxed out settings for all, and getting very high frame rates in mojave, 80-160FPS and no stutter. But, really, the scenery in trainz is so comic-book that there's no real point in maxxing out for anything but the surface of rolling stock. also, your 6570 should be about the same as video card as the amped out 4890 -- which was a 500$ card back in the day.
 
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took some time for trying to figure what is wrong with the game... so 1st of all starting with my specs that would be Asus M3A79T, Phenom II X4 955BE @ 3,8, 4GB, GTX460, 128GB Agility3, (newest drivers on everything, also the temps are not going over 60C in full load) i know its nothing even close to really good but still i can play games like new Tomb Raider on high, also playing WoT on High with stable 60fps all the time, but in games like that i have close to 99% of GPU usage, and close to 90% of CPU usage... and in Trainz i have like 40% of GPU usage and 50% of CPU (i would like to know your steve123) then it means that either the game can't use the card like it should or the game doesnt need that much power
as i said in Trainz i also have stable 60fps regadless of the details high/low, the only thing that is reducing fps is distance but thats normal and understandable, but if i'll stick with 2-2,5km then its still on 60fps the problem are the 0,5stops each like 10s not the fps itself...
however... i made some testing, directX, opelGL, compability modes with diff os, admin rights, played with the nvidia settings setting maximum performance/maximum quality, AA, texture buffering etc, nothing really changed the game
the i run the game and start looking, took a steam loco so i could see the stops, didn't move the loco just sit there looking at the steam going out of it w8ing... once the game loaded everthing around me the wasn't any single stop, i could move the camera, nothing... everything was the same, no stops... then i start riding, 0,5s stop, then normal work... and again the same... so then i made a simple small circle track, put the train there and ride around... nothing, the game worked perfectly, 60fps, no stutering no nothing, like like it should
the problem is with the big maps, trees and other stuff that are constantly loaded into the game since the game stops only to load it up and i have it installed on SSD but that doesnt really improve anything, nor the loading times of the maps... so i dont really know what else i can make... its annoying me as i dont like stuff like that happening when i play thats one thing
the other, steve123, is that the game had nowhere "you need to have NASA computer in order to run this game smoothly" sing, so saying "i have 7970 and its working ok for me" yea... thats full of crap... u could have run any new game that is there and i think each other new game that will come in next 6months in 4k on ultra without any problems...
 
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yes, i wonder if the video card is the problem for us? you've got, what, 1 gig or less on the 640? even though the SSD is quick for your swaps, i think the video card itself has to do the math? the ATI card i use has 3gb memory but shouldn't be astronomically different in math processing from yours... i built a 20gb ram disk ( 64gb total RAM, win64 on win 8 ) and loaded the entire game into it and ran it, and there was no difference in play --FPS was the same, and yet there was still the sometimes awkward single stagger when the game hit some processor intensive object... it choked on it. so, it's obviously not a problem with hard-disk swap file. your nvidia has the rep as just eating through that sort of thing, but this game is some kind of anarchy of objects, different texture counts which all need to be rendered. some people have animal cards with 6gb's of ram... humm, how would that run Tranz? but, what does that mean, having that much memory on the video card? that it can grab an entire math object immediately to its bosom while it folds it into a VW bug? i do not know.

how about when you zoom out? does that change the staggering and FPS? and, also what about the route itself? -- the appalachian coal route runs very smooth for me, but mojave is the one that's always been lumpy -- all those little desert shrubby's add up to more renderable objects than those lush but fewer green-wood trees?
 
The image i have of video card and memory interaction, is that of a warden having to air 200 prisoners; but knowing it's going to rain,has to have each prisoner put on a yellow slicker. they can put on the slicker in a 5x5 foot room, 3 at a time (as when we had 16k video ram,) or all go out into a 100x100 foot yard... or, better, a 500x500 foot yard, where they can each have elbow room enough to change at the same time. the impression i have is that the video card's memory amount provides that sort of space, even though each individual is capable of dressing at the same speed? ... even though changes in bus type and speed made the doors bigger, and GPU's now come with built-in slickers-objects...

is this something like what's happening with GPU's?
 
took some time for trying to figure what is wrong with the game... so 1st of all starting with my specs that would be Asus M3A79T, Phenom II X4 955BE @ 3,8, 4GB, GTX460, 128GB Agility3, (newest drivers on everything, also the temps are not going over 60C in full load) i know its nothing even close to really good but still i can play games like new Tomb Raider on high, also playing WoT on High with stable 60fps all the time, but in games like that i have close to 99% of GPU usage, and close to 90% of CPU usage... and in Trainz i have like 40% of GPU usage and 50% of CPU (i would like to know your steve123) then it means that either the game can't use the card like it should or the game doesnt need that much power
as i said in Trainz i also have stable 60fps regadless of the details high/low, the only thing that is reducing fps is distance but thats normal and understandable, but if i'll stick with 2-2,5km then its still on 60fps the problem are the 0,5stops each like 10s not the fps itself...
however... i made some testing, directX, opelGL, compability modes with diff os, admin rights, played with the nvidia settings setting maximum performance/maximum quality, AA, texture buffering etc, nothing really changed the game
the i run the game and start looking, took a steam loco so i could see the stops, didn't move the loco just sit there looking at the steam going out of it w8ing... once the game loaded everthing around me the wasn't any single stop, i could move the camera, nothing... everything was the same, no stops... then i start riding, 0,5s stop, then normal work... and again the same... so then i made a simple small circle track, put the train there and ride around... nothing, the game worked perfectly, 60fps, no stutering no nothing, like like it should
the problem is with the big maps, trees and other stuff that are constantly loaded into the game since the game stops only to load it up and i have it installed on SSD but that doesnt really improve anything, nor the loading times of the maps... so i dont really know what else i can make... its annoying me as i dont like stuff like that happening when i play thats one thing
the other, steve123, is that the game had nowhere "you need to have NASA computer in order to run this game smoothly" sing, so saying "i have 7970 and its working ok for me" yea... thats full of crap... u could have run any new game that is there and i think each other new game that will come in next 6months in 4k on ultra without any problems...

When you measure the CPU utilisation you are taking the average over four cores. Trainz does most of its processing on one core and spreads some work out to a second core. It's actually much easier to write software that runs on one core and Trainz jet engine was written well before multiple cores became available. So if you look at the load per core you'll find one at 100%, one probably at 97% and 1% on each of the other cores. There is a tradeoff software written to run well on multiple cores doesn't perform well on a single core machine. The speed of the single core is probably the main bottleneck on your system. The Phenom II X4 955BE doesn't have the fastest caches and getting information into the CPU and out again is another typical bottleneck.

Unfortunately Trainz has the richness of content that other SIMs don't have so the choice is either throw enough hardware at it to make it run, choose your content carefully or do something else like read a book.

Cheerio John
 
ok, i did a re-clocking from 4.1 mhz to 1.5, and it's just as john suggests, that my frame rates were cut in half and staggering was drunken and almost passed out. textures were clean and bright, of course, but it does look like the CPU is the factor. And, as John points out, only one core of my 6 was involved in the processing. Thanks, John, for the heads up and information.
 
well johnwhellan maybe on intel it works differently, on amd it looks like that

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6076/pck2.jpg

from playing for like 1 minute, looks like its just spreaded on each core...

so if you are right, then i would need to somehow make to force is run on only 1 core to see if there is any difference, if it would at least reach 100%...

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ok i set it 1st to run on 1core, and it was on 100% but it also cut my fps in half so its way not enough to run it, but... i still got that staggers, next i run it on core 2 and 3 and it was like 90% on 1 and 50-70% on 2nd with normal fps yet still with staggers... will try to run it in window on some low resolution now and will see...

another edit:
tried with 1024x768 in 16bit both windowed and full screen, directx (in opengl i get really low fps), and... nothing the fps is the same, the load is the same and yes... the staggering is the same... i think that would remove the "get better graphic cards" ;)
but then... ugh im not sure what else i can do, changing to make it run only on 1 or 2 cores made the difference in fps, so its most likely more CPU then GPU game, yet that staggering is annoying and i have no idea now from where its coming...
 
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that's pretty interesting that the AMD uses all cores. my intel, the app causes the core use -- like, when i'm premiere pro rendering in CS6, all 6 cores are 100%. if the app won't use them, though, as Trainz, then it's all done in the one core for that one app. i'm not even sure that it spreads. this, of course, implies that your AMD actually a single core and fractures the output into 'cores'. can that be so? for sure, when i clock my chip, Trainz responds.
 
but that would show that either my graphic card and my cpu is able to run the game good, the question is, does anybody have any idea what else could be the reason for stuttering...
 
well, i gave the data that when i run my i7 3930 at 1.5 mhz i get way bad stuttering when i max out all graphic values in trainz; when i run o/clocked at 4.5 mhz i get very minor or no stuttering. my gpu is an MSI build of an ATI 7970 -- which is really only about being able to run at 2560x1400 with comfort. so, for intel at least the clock speed and inherent processing capabilities, as john suggested, are the limiting factor. i have to say, that when i was running an intel 9550, also on an asus mo-bo, i'd regularly o/c to 3.9 and could hold a maxed out stutter free session at 1280x1024.
 
but still i got the same fps (maybe +/- 8) regardless of the resolution and graphic details, also windowed or full screen... i need to find any other thing that i could hook into and check...
 
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