TRS2010

[john259]

The only way to have a neat download station is for Auran to start a new database with 09 native mode as the starting point

There's a lot to be said for that. TS09 Native is effectively a brand new standard.

How about also enforcing these rules for the new section:
1. Don't allow any assets to be uploaded to DLS unless they either have no dependencies, or all their dependencies are already on DLS or built-in.
2. Don't allow any assets to be uploaded to DLS unless they (and their built-in dependencies if any) are 100% compliant with the TS09 Native spec (and get the checking program very very thoroughly tested first) and have also been passed by a volunteer panel of expert user beta testers.

If this reduces the number of items to a trickle of high quality assets, that wouldn't be a bad thing IMHO.

John

 

[martinvk]

For those who were wondering, an abri is a shelter. And no, it's not mine. I would have called it a wachthokje :hehe:

 

[coRioGrandeSouthern]

There's a lot to be said for that. TS09 Native is effectively a brand new standard.

How about also enforcing these rules for the new section:
1. Don't allow any assets to be uploaded to DLS unless they either have no dependencies, or all their dependencies are already on DLS or built-in.
2. Don't allow any assets to be uploaded to DLS unless they (and their built-in dependencies if any) are 100% compliant with the TS09 Native spec (and get the checking program very very thoroughly tested first) and have also been passed by a volunteer panel of expert user beta testers.

If this reduces the number of items to a trickle of high quality assets, that wouldn't be a bad thing IMHO.

John

I agree completely, John. There are those who think sheer mass in numbers is cool... even at the expense of quality, or anything near quality. Standards matter. Standards exist for a reason. Railroads run on standards/rules.

 

[Paulsw2]

There's a lot to be said for that. TS09 Native is effectively a brand new standard.

How about also enforcing these rules for the new section:
1. Don't allow any assets to be uploaded to DLS unless they either have no dependencies, or all their dependencies are already on DLS or built-in.
2. Don't allow any assets to be uploaded to DLS unless they (and their built-in dependencies if any) are 100% compliant with the TS09 Native spec (and get the checking program very very thoroughly tested first) and have also been passed by a volunteer panel of expert user beta testers.

If this reduces the number of items to a trickle of high quality assets, that wouldn't be a bad thing IMHO.

John

Yes, yes, yes! :clap:
Auran should start a new 'native' 09/10 DLS with rigorous quality standards - no errors; dependencies on DLS; and standard nomenclature of xxx-yyy-zzz type. It would also be good if we could have a sort of 'energy efficiency' rating for assets; ie. how much load will this asset impose on the game in terms of framerate, memory usage etc.

 

[celje]

any comment about my post # 117 in this thread.

And i'm sorry, type mistake , correct is alphabetic order

regards

 

[NSWGR_46Class]

The use of X is most likely to "sound cool"

actually probably because it'll be the 10th edition of TRS:
Trainz/SP3
UTC
TRS2004
TRS2006
TC1
TC2
TC3
TS09
TS10
Then
TSX

peter

Ok but you missed the first version of trainz called CE

 

[martinvk]

OK. here you are, my take on #117

I'm afraid that confusion in 09 will continue in 10.

1. in 09 builtin content don't work properly, e.g signals ( germans routes) and of course the sessions are unplayable. Installing 10 over 09 will not solve this problem

2. some rules in 09 don't work

So what if some don't work. You would think there was some law that said that everything from previous versions must continue to work or else. We should be happy that most do work directly or with minor modifications. Many people demand new features. There is a price and not just $ :wave:

3. there is no analfabetic order of assets. Auran didn't demand this from authors of new assets for 09, e.g. what is MTK BB1 BYLD4, if we will have
B-MTK BB1 BYLD4 then we will know that this is building, or Jankvis... (great author of native trees) T-Jankvis..., T mean tree etc. In 09 it's the big chance to sort this because this moment there are not plenty assets for native mode.

This is an old story. Without rehashing the whole thing, it is the creators prerogative to name his objects anyway he likes. If you don't like the names, feel free to rename your local copy. And naturally it will all be alphabetical according to your names

4. it's time that Auran put in serveyor the seperate sort for native assets

This is already possible using Surveyor filters

I hope that 10EE will have a plenty new native assets.

Start building.

 

[celje]

Hello martinvk

Because you put smile for the first your answer, I'll not comment it.

About alphabetic order I repeat, this moment there are not plenty assets for native mode, with small effort Auran can make the guidline with initial for all kind of native assets and then creator who , of course, has the prerogative to name his objects anyway he likes, just put this initial before the name of asset.So if e.g. the name of asset is T- Jankvis..., then we would know that this is the native asset and Jankvis... is the old edition before native. All old assets stay untouched. I think that this isn't rehashing and is easy solution without any big effort for Auran.

regards

 

[martinvk]

Not to be contrary but

1 For some reason, many people are very particular about the names they give to their assets. I think there would be a lot of resistance to having Auran telling them what the name of an object can be. Besides, since many objects can be cataloged in multiple ways, it would still result in a mess. Less than now perhaps but still a mess.

Remember when the kuid system was also used to provide a sort of classification by having asset use different ranges of numbers? Nice idea but that was quickly messed up when people used any number they felt like. Now the kuid number is just a sequence without any special meaning.

2 The is already not much room in the visible part of the name slot in Surveyor. If some of that will be used to display what for some would be redundant information, it will be an even harder sell. I say redundant because filters can already isolate asset by user, rating, keyword(s) etc so that having this information also part of the name would be a waste of space.

3 Back in the days of TRS2004 and TO, there were many discussions as to the best way to recategorize assets. There were almost as many ways as there were proponents. And of course everyone was right. The best classification is the one you are comfortable with, not what someone else like.

So having for example T-Jankvis preceding all of his trees would not work if someone wanted to classify them by season or by country or by height or by any other method. When it comes to Trainz object classification, the old adage of "one size fits all" really doesn't fit.

In the end, I don't think there will ever be a single right answer. Too many people believe their method is better, including me :wave:

 

[StorkNest]

I think the problem regarding asset naming is this.

In CM2 you cannot filter the TS2009 assets under the Download Station tab. Using Minimum Build Version does not work unless you already downloaded then deleted the item (no fun at all). So it is a guessing game unless you also open a browser window, log into the TRS2004 Download Station website and check only the TS2009 box then search.

This however will bring up assets that are set to trainz-build 2.9 but do not use some new features like normal mapping. Then there are the few older build assets that do use normal mapping.

EDIT
Ok, I'm at a loss on one point. TS2010EE is stated as able to patch over TS2009WBE.
Why?
Everything TS2009WBE has I just found in several posts is in TS2010EE.
Why patch something if the new one has it all?
If it patches TS2009WBE, then TS2009WBE should have something TS2010EE shouldn't.
Don't know why Surveyor was added but now I found a post stating all the routes (therefore their content) will be in TS2010EE. So what point is there to keeping TS2009WBE on my system and patching it?

 

[amigacooke]

So what point is there to keeping TS2009WBE on my system and patching it?

Presumably so you don't have to transfer any non-builtin content you may have added from 09 to 10.

I imagine you can if you really want to.

 

[Smileyman]

Well, from someone who lost all faith in Auran and Trainz, what with it's fragmentation and the ridiculously drawn-out texture compression errors, this actually looks quite interesting.

Having been using Photoshop for so many years, the addition of layers will be a godsend, and I remember several people, including myself, asking for this years ago.

Another feature that I joined in calling for was seasonal assets, and now it looks like we'll be having that too.

Not convinced about SpeedTree or whatever it's called.
Not that bothered actually.

And maybe they've given up the ghost on splitting up Driver and Surveyor for different versions, which was/is a pet hate of mine.

So, if they get it stable enough, and include the features that they mention, then maybe Trainz will be worth having again.
And because I didn't listen to the TRS2009 hype and didn't buy it, or any of the nonsense versions that followed, TRS2010 will actually be more value for money to me. :wave:

I still won't be on here very often, but at least I'll have a version of Trainz worth playing again.

Will I be one of the first to snap up TRS2010 when it's released?
No, I've been there and got the T-Shirt.

From now on they will have to prove to me that it's worth having, so expect to see me lurking on here in the short term, so I can see what people think of it.

I can't help thinking that if they'd just done this 2 years ago, they could have avoided a lot of grief.

Smiley.

 

[JCitron]

I can't help thinking that if they'd just done this 2 years ago, they could have avoided a lot of grief.

Smiley.

This is a good point, Smiley. However I think 2 years ago they were going great guns with the ill-received Fury, which nearly put the whole organisation out of business. They pretty much had put all their cash into the one product and let the Trainz franchise kind of whither away as the resources were placed elsewhere.

We're lucky to have Auran around today.

John

 

[pinkiepienter]

I cannot resist to answer and agree on this one

Ferngren you hit the rusty Forum nail on the top. Now its shiny again!
these guys HAVE to make money to be able to run business and how knows yes even make some profit or even a lot.Good for them.

That's how it works its that simple in words and that different in the forum people's world and F...up minds with the brain size of a peanut or most cases the brain size of a granule of rice.
Yes Woody(looking at your threads your 41 i.o 14 years old which gives me chills on my back seeing you talk to youngsters on the internet) you too!
I still focus on you for the hillbilly meaningless words off reactions to my suggestion to Auran to make a yearly software support fee.

What these guys try to do now is the same only different cover and packing and more worth, no guarantee people will buy because of the WRONG attitude created in this forum about what can be expected for what you NOT pay for.

ONE good meal or bottle of malt a year compared to a totally different and professional approach to making things work because the budget allows to do things NOW more the way it should.

I will buy this stuff again because I know nothings else can be expected as long as nobody is willing to pay for something more profound.

To the forum people as long as YOU guys not change youre attitude DO NOT expect the manufacturer in this case Auran to fulfill your expectations at Aurans cost. I would not do that in 1000 years.

I WOULD PAY every year 30-50 usd for good professional services and updates NO DOUBT at all.

WINDWalkr small advice do not get to entangled in a discussion which is not meant to be constructive the way you expect from reasonable minds out there. Every word you write can be used against you and interpreted in many different ways than the way you or Auran meant so keep it simple and basic. You do not deserve to be served to the jackals and sorts of.

To Auran I will buy as for following reasons:

1. the layer system so common in my world and so basic and essential.when building and designing stuff in 3D Back in 1978-79 when I developed the worlds first full 3D integrated AEC (Architectural Engeneering and Construction software for the high End market). Before the PC was 'invented' we run it on big main frames and later on workstations like Silicon Graphics. We had a superb customer base willing to pay software maintainance and special developments. I can hear many of you that's a different world. Nope not that much different. Yes easier for us as manufacturer AS long as you are professional and dedicated to your PAYING customer base and fulfill with every year going the extra mile for Customer satisfaction. Most of you guys rant and complain for something called hot air and make the relationship to your Provider the way it is: UNPREDICTABLE for the short run but on the long run for sure YOU cannot grow on these kind of relationships and for Auran with a 'customer' base like this.
2. Speedtree. I more than welcome it I talked about it ion the forum when 2009 was released and Vegetation etc was completely missing!
3. Speedtree i almost bought a license but decided to wait a little longer to see where Auran was heading and to my big relieve the right direction(it seems;have to see the details of their speedtree link into Trainz and what options fo content and route builders like me.
4. Customizable user menu.
5. Backward compatibility to 09 although hey this is not so difficult right.
6. The feeling that the Jet-engine is at is end and ready to morph into a up to date modeler. Normally you cannot implement a layering system the way I know into your existing modeler unless the modeler changed, same for the link to Speedtree. Certain things need newer modeling techniques unless you have have ways I have not heard of ( yes i am retired but every one still boils water to cook with)
7. Auran's attitude to go forward gives me good feeling I would pay for. If they cheat to much well they got my bottle of whiskey(i never drink) to remember i.o. of a steady yearly income to keep Trainz movin.

Thank you Auran, you have my vote and please do not 'cheat' to much as it will be soon a deadly catch 22 for you.

Lookin forward to test this baby

y'all have a nice day

Roy

I would like to thank Chris for taking the time to answer many questions here on the forum. I'm happy that developing work on Trainz is continuing. Sure, other train-sims can do certain things better - but as a whole - Trainz is the leading product on the market. Versatile and very userfriendly.

In threads like this one, we always get some people with very specific requests of improvement, often just a single one, and they get very angry if it's not implemented in the next version. The flaming takes on... Sadly we're not hearing all the satisfied customers, who has to be hundreds of thousands.

People feel cheated of having bought one version and quickly the next one is to be launched. Try to see it as a donation. Without new money, there will be no development. In the end - it's only money...

"Some weeks ago I got myself a bottle of single malt whisky for some $30. Every now and then I had a glas or two. Today the bottle is empty and my $30 are gone. Was I fooled ?? "

(Still got my Trainz DVD's)

 

[winjmoore]

I am a route builder, and I love the aspect of better content with less lag. But the fact of the matter is that Multiplayer capabilities is the most requested feature for Trainz since the 04 version. It was said it was being worked on for 06, but the people who were working on it were told to halt. Since then it has been asked to be put in future releases but keeps getting left out.

__________________
KDShanks (aka Clinchfieldfanatic)
TrainzProRoutes
Board Member
Route Creation Team

I don't see anything on the DLS from KDShanks or Clinchfieldfanatic. Maybe supporting auran rather than keeping all your stuff on your own boards would be better. AND!!! then when we download something we would not have to troll the net to make it work

 

[sterrett]

My Two Penn'orth!

I have loyally supported Auran since Trainz was a concept (I used to avidly look for the latest 3D model on the auran web site in those days!) I have bought Trainz, SP3, Paint Shed, Ultimate Trainz, TRS2004, TRS2006, TC3 and now TRS2009.

It is not my intention to slate Auran - I have had a tremendous amount of fun out of the trainz programmes and I am very pleased that the company survived after coming to the brink a few years ago! I will continue to support Auran and I would really like to go for TRS2010 when it is released, but probably won't be able to afford it for quite a while.

Since TRS2004, each version has had its glitches (TRS2006 never properly worked for me, even with all the patches), but to me Trainz Classics 3 is the sweetest of the lot - especially as the team continue to give free content add ons or updates every Friday!

I am running TRS2009 quite happily, and the only thing that gets me a little bit excited about TRS2010 is "Speedtree" (and there is always the hope that frame rates might improve a bit too). Is that worth paying £39 or £40 for in these troubled times when my job and livelihood hangs in the balance? I think not!

Do you think it is fair someone who has progressed through all the Trainz versions, and gets only a slight improvement, should pay the same as someone who joins the community for the first time or upgrades from an old version of the game?

C'mon Auran - how about a discount of say 50% for those who upgrade from TC3 or TRS2009, and a 25% discount if upgrading from a TRS2004/2006? I would say you'd stand a much better chance of converting the die-hards!

What a Happy Christmas that would be for the community!

 

[martinvk]

It is fairly certain that I will be getting TS2010 when it is released if no other reason than the new Surveyor features. Everyone should evaluate the total package and come to their own conclusion as to whether or not to get it. It all depends on what is important to you. Don't let others decide for you, make up your own mind. :wave:

As for a deep discount, I'm sure most if not all of us would like one. Whether it is realistic to expect one is another matter. Will a 50% discount result in at least a doubling of sales? If your crystal ball is that good, you should be selling your advise. I don't think Auran is a charity so unless they are profitable there certainly will not be another upgrade.

 

[sterrett]

Will a 50% discount result in at least a doubling of sales? If your crystal ball is that good, you should be selling your advise

Yes - I guess the harsh economic reality is such that my hope is a vain one. I do feel a bit miffed, though, that I would have to pay the same as someone who has never previously owned a copy of Trainz!

It would be nice to see some sort of "loyal customer" recognition, even if 50% or 25% is beyond reality. How about a period of complimentary First Class Download Ticket if you are a TC3/TRS2009 upgrader?

I can always ask my wife or my son to put TRS2010 on Santa's wish list - I'll probably still end up with a useless shirt and tie though!

 

[john259]

UK online retailers will probably sell it for under ten pounds within a few months of release - if you can wait!

John

 

[emiliete1990]

How can I play multiplayer online with TRS2010? I can't find that on the manual.