TRS2010 vs. TRS2012?

bwfeldsee said:
Sorry but it isn't that simple. Tell me to mind my own business if you like because I'm still on good old fashioned TRS2006 but it's a bit like buying a car, no strings attached, then being told at your first service that you can't have the work done unless you have a GPS tracking system installed. It is ethically quite wrong to sell something and then move the goalposts concerning future upgrades.
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Not really. Unlike cars, computer software doesn't typically fall apart if you don't 'service' it for a year. In many cases, software may continue to work 5-10 years after purchase. Furthermore, software updates don't really extend the usable life of the product. The chances are that the support will have ended long before you start to encounter compatibility problems with a new computer generation.

Remember also that you're paying $300 (or whatever) for the luxury of getting your car serviced.

No, a patch is more like getting a free GPS unit for your car which previously did not have one. We're offering the GPS unit on two conditions: that you didn't steal your car, and that your GPS is permitted to contact our servers from time to time to get new maps.

Sure, that's not a perfect analogy, but it's perhaps a lot more accurate than your hypothetical free car services.

kind regards,

chris
 
WindWalkr said:
Not really. Unlike cars, computer software doesn't typically fall apart if you don't 'service' it for a year. In many cases, software may continue to work 5-10 years after purchase. Furthermore, software updates don't really extend the usable life of the product. The chances are that the support will have ended long before you start to encounter compatibility problems with a new computer generation.

Remember also that you're paying $300 (or whatever) for the luxury of getting your car serviced.

No, a patch is more like getting a free GPS unit for your car which previously did not have one. We're offering the GPS unit on two conditions: that you didn't steal your car, and that your GPS is permitted to contact our servers from time to time to get new maps.

Sure, that's not a perfect analogy, but it's perhaps a lot more accurate than your hypothetical free car services.

kind regards,

chris
Click to expand...

That's fine, but a patch can also be like a warranty or recall repair for said car. Just to play Devil's Advocate, shouldn't people be entitled to the repair without the free GPS if the so desire?

I agree that SP1 and it's fixes are improvements and make the game better for the most part. I'm on the fence about the DRM thing but I won't lose sleep over it. My only real issue was the way it was all implemented. Hopefully that will improve moving forward.
 
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I'm really not sure that people pay attention to what is written. If I understand it correctly it is only the N3V DLC that requires online reactivation at intervals. If you don't like that, don't buy the DLC content. TS12 the core program is used in the same way as all the other versions of Trainz have been.
 
WindWalkr said:
The fixes and updates are available to you, free of charge. If you choose not to install them, that's your choice. We have never and most likely will never allow users to 'pick and choose' which parts of the game they update. That simply isn't practical for a product as intertwined as Trainz. We release the patches, and you evaluate whether or not you wish to install them.

There is none now. We haven't magically gone and retroactively changed what you bought. IF you choose to upgrade to SP1, then you will be required to adopt the new way of doing things. IF you don't want to adopt the new way, then don't upgrade. It's that simple.
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Perhaps you misunderstand me. I'll explain it again. When I purchased both TS12 as well as each piece of DLC, there was no stated requirement, either in the advertisements or the EULA, that I need an internet connection. So, it's both an issue of advertising and contract law.

You have, in fact, retroactively changed what I have bought. I need SP1 to fix numerous manufacturer defects. Had these been coded correctly the first time, neither SP1 nor any of the several hotfixes issued since then would even be necessary.
 
WindWalkr said:
Not really. Unlike cars, computer software doesn't typically fall apart if you don't 'service' it for a year. In many cases, software may continue to work 5-10 years after purchase. Furthermore, software updates don't really extend the usable life of the product. The chances are that the support will have ended long before you start to encounter compatibility problems with a new computer generation.

Remember also that you're paying $300 (or whatever) for the luxury of getting your car serviced.

No, a patch is more like getting a free GPS unit for your car which previously did not have one. We're offering the GPS unit on two conditions: that you didn't steal your car, and that your GPS is permitted to contact our servers from time to time to get new maps.

Sure, that's not a perfect analogy, but it's perhaps a lot more accurate than your hypothetical free car services.

kind regards,

chris
Click to expand...

How does a GPS, free or not, repair manufacturer defects?
 
amigacooke said:
I'm really not sure that people pay attention to what is written. If I understand it correctly it is only the N3V DLC that requires online reactivation at intervals. If you don't like that, don't buy the DLC content. TS12 the core program is used in the same way as all the other versions of Trainz have been.
Click to expand...

Some of us do. Nowhere was it stated that an internet connection might be needed to use the DLC when I purchased it.
 
RRSignal said:
Some of us do. Nowhere was it stated that an internet connection might be needed to use the DLC when I purchased it.
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I've just been to see if the DLC I purchased under the old system is still available to download. It is.

Can I suggest that you can still download the DLC into the build that you had at the time of purchase and use it without having any change in the circumstances of purchase?
 
I always prefer the hard copy discs when available. If they get the pricing thing sorted out go for the Anniversary edition. It's a great price and the collector's tin with all the extras is nice to have.
 
In that case, you may be OK with a digital download, but be aware that the files are very large (~1-1.5GB each), so you may have have a problem if you have a capped connection.

Shane
 
Good Morning RRSignal
I would suggest you have a read of the EULA, which you agreed to when installing Trainz... We actually very clearly state in there that we are not required to provide updates, however we may do so at our discretion.

We have not changed the requirements for the software as it is currently installed on your computer. If you do not have SP1 installed, then you are not required to be online in any way to use the DLC packs.

If you wish to use SP1, then you will need to use the new DLC system. We really can't offer a middle ground with this, except to have not released SP1 at all, and made it a completely new product. To not include some features would have meant lacking others, and quite possibly lacking some of the important fixes as well. We did not feel this was appropriate, and instead made it as a free update for TS12.

REgards
 
I have been away from Trainz for some time only because I haven't had the internet on, but sounds like I would be better off getting another version of TRS 2010, given all the hassles that members here have been having with TS12.... one of the things that really annoyed me with TS 12 is all the problems that crop up when changing the engine and horn sounds that were quite simple in TRS2010 and older verssions like 2006...(which now you can only get from buying Trainz Classics 2) with all the earlier versions of Trainz in it.... try doing this with TRS12 and you really start to wish you had stuck with your old tried and trusted Trainz Versioins...Oh! all the errors (Red and Yellow Exlcamation Marks that now appear in the CMP of 2012!...OMG!....Yes! TRS 12 was supposed to be the be all and end all for TRS, but what a Mess.....A box full of headaches and utter frustratioins... It just goes to prove that the old trusted things of old are often the best....
 
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ZecMurphy said:
Good Morning RRSignal
I would suggest you have a read of the EULA, which you agreed to when installing Trainz... We actually very clearly state in there that we are not required to provide updates, however we may do so at our discretion.
Click to expand...

I've read the EULA. I'm also familiar with contract law as well as advertising law. You are not required to provide patches. You ARE required to truthfully, accurately and clearly describe your product in your advertisements, descriptions, and agreements. The bugs in your product are shortcomings; the product doesn't do what you claim it to do. That's why you go to the trouble and expense of producing and distributing patches. Hence that's why bugfixes are called FIXES. Likewise, users go to A LOT of trouble downloading and installing said patches in order for the product they paid for to work as it is supposed to. None of which would be an issue had N3V done the job right the first time, and some of which are serious flaws.

The U.S. may have extremely weak consumer protection laws, but even ours have remedies for deceptive advertising as well as breach of contract.
 
WindWalkr said:
This says it all really.

chris
Click to expand...

But you are required to provide the product you claim to in your advertisements. That N3V continually ignores that fact says a lot about N3V's marketing ethics as well as the your contempt for the law.
 
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