Trs2010 Very Poor Draw Distance! Driver Mode Even Worse

[LieLestoSbrat]

You say that assets not created up to the correct 2009+ standards are most likely to cause the draw distance issues. If this is the case does the performance statistics monitor in surveyor show which asset is causing the largest problem in the scene viewable? If it doesn't could this be something that can be added into the next update? I do know that the performance indicator has a stitched track section and a speedtrees count, what other info should we be looking at on those read outs should we be looking at?

Rob

 

[Tidgney]

Hi WindWalkr.

Its all the standard stuff that was installed on TRS2010. No matter the map the same thing happens. No matter the draw distance, Ran in both compatibility and native same things happen. Ill run the video in a sec. So will upload later today.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

i still cant help but disagree. i get much worse drawing distance in both content and baseboards in native mode at some points, maybe a higher fps slightly but that is not worth it. maybe i have an inefficient content in use in the scene, but that is a lousy excuse. the terrain never reaches 5000m yet you answer all of your questions as if it does. it does not. sure that might be the theoretical limit but if it did reach it while using the program then maybe we wouldnt be having this conversation. soon as you put a texture on it its down to 1k maybe 2k. when i ask for greater draw distance you seem to act as if im saying 5000m isnt enough, it should be, but since we never get to see that we dont know. again i am saying this with all content drawing distances aside. i dont think i need trees or whatever drawing so far away, however i think it is important to draw the ground as much as possible. again the terrain drawing distance on any finished route is NEVER 5000m, i would like you to show me where it is. our in house route that socalwb909 is working to build would be beautiful with longer terrain draw distances but most of the time the effects are ruined because out of anybody on the team the distance never gets so far - even taking heavy sacrifices on scenery to make sure it remains as far as possible, still the damn limiter kicks in and makes us watch the edge of the world show or worse disappearing and reappearing parts. how can you say the software is working properly when this is the case? if by work you mean the stopgap measurement you put in to stop it from killing itself then yes, i suppose it is, but there must be a reason it cannot handle what it is supposed to do. you cant say that 5000m is more than enough when that isnt even achievable, and if it is - please please SHOW us an example of what to do! merely saying it works does nothing.

 

[ess1]

Sorry, but seems like a dog chasing it's tail.

I've used trainz tuner with excellent results. So now, same computer, same old content, the new version is hampered? Where is the efficiency if the new can't accomplish what the old did with inefficient content. That supposedly faulty content hardly gave 06 or TC a burp.

It does fall on Auran, they are the ones who built a better mouse trap. 09 was packed with older, faulty content. Are you saying 10 has to be dumbed down and that it's the third party's fault since they haven't produced new content?

Auran released the sim knowing full well the compatibility issues. All I see is an excuse and laying the burden on third party's feet.

Dave......

We all have purchased various editions.
Auran already "have" us. If they are not going to improve the present (2010) programme. Surely the answer is not to purchase 20?? The enthusiasts at Auran (they are still there I assume) have to convince the "suits" that the bottom line might well suffer.

Auran, Auran oh how you have changed since those heady days...

 

[Tidgney]

This was a relative good day from what i remember (I dont venture on trainz at present as this random bug irritates me like crazy).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APjP7YjwWMY

Shows random draw distance, and random tree bug?

You will notice some Frame Freezes yet im running at 60+ FPS constantly.

Normally end up with no scenary and just a blue sky everywhere and rails running on nothing.

 

[bolivar]

You have my sympathy, Tidgney. The video shows exactly how un-prototypical the cab view is. Even TRS2006 with Trainz Tuner running and the slower fps looked way better. Unfortunately I think the powers that be, have decided to go the way they have and we either lump it or leave it.

 

[WindWalkr]

You say that assets not created up to the correct 2009+ standards are most likely to cause the draw distance issues. If this is the case does the performance statistics monitor in surveyor show which asset is causing the largest problem in the scene viewable? If it doesn't could this be something that can be added into the next update? I do know that the performance indicator has a stitched track section and a speedtrees count, what other info should we be looking at on those read outs should we be looking at?

Yes, it does. It lists the KUID of the current worst offenders in the scene on various relevant metrics. These are the assets that you should be looking at first.

chris

 

[RRSignal]

Yes, it does. It lists the KUID of the current worst offenders in the scene on various relevant metrics. These are the assets that you should be looking at first.

chris

How big a factor do Progressive Meshes factor into this? I have a lot of assets with PMs that I have not been fixing. However, if PM2IM's trawl mode works the way I think it is supposed to, then perhaps it's time to give it a shot.

 

[WindWalkr]

the terrain never reaches 5000m

I've just given you an example scenario (above) showing that it does. If you follow the few steps I've listed, you will indeed see a 5000m draw distance.

chris

 

[WindWalkr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APjP7YjwWMY

Shows random draw distance,

Okay, so you've picked one of the heaviest scenes in the TS2010 built-in content, and you're still getting what looks to be somewhere up around 3k draw distance? That's a far cry from "I can never see above 1000M no matter the distance".

and random tree bug?

I'm not as familiar with this specific issue, but it looks like this might be a well-known compatibility issue with SpeedTree on certain hardware. It's a bit off-topic for this thread but if it's a concern for you then you may wish to take it up with Helpdesk. Also, if you're still running on the initial release of TS2010- please update! There have already been a number of bugfixes relating to SpeedTree hardware compatibility.

Normally end up with no scenary and just a blue sky everywhere and rails running on nothing.

You haven't pictured this in your video, but this sounds unrelated to draw distance. The limiter can't cause this particular effect.

chris

 

[WindWalkr]

How big a factor do Progressive Meshes factor into this?

They don't. PM files were a type of LOD which Jet used back in ~2001-2004. After that point LM files were introduced as a more effective alternative. Modern Trainz builds are still capable of reading the basic meshes from PM files but they no longer have any kind of LOD control and are effectively treated as IM files.

chris

 

[paulzmay]

Yes, it does. It lists the KUID of the current worst offenders in the scene on various relevant metrics. These are the assets that you should be looking at first.

chris

It's a handy tool, but looking forward, would it be possible to get some kind of performance yardstick for any piece of content? Sometimes I can't live without the worst offender, but there are probably a stack of other pieces of inefficient content I could do without. It also could give me a better idea of whether it's advisable to even place a piece of content before I use it...

Paul

 

[WindWalkr]

It's a handy tool, but looking forward, would it be possible to get some kind of performance yardstick for any piece of content?

This features rather prominently on our wishlist as well. I can't say when we will get to it however.

Sometimes I can't live without the worst offender

True enough, although more often than not if you're not willing to remove the worst offender, there's not much that can be done to help the route. The difference between an efficient object and an inefficient objects is usually in orders of magnitude.

kind regards,

chris

 

[paulzmay]

This features rather prominently on our wishlist as well. I can't say when we will get to it however.




True enough, although more often than not if you're not willing to remove the worst offender, there's not much that can be done to help the route. The difference between an efficient object and an inefficient objects is usually in orders of magnitude.

kind regards,

chris

True, but I may be able to remove 8 out of the 10 worst offenders. Some indication of how bad an item is, and why it's bad (polys, texture size, material count, etc) would be massively helpful. I'm glad to see that it's on the wish-list - it will certainly help both route builders and content creators move forward...

Paul

 

[Tidgney]

Okay, so you've picked one of the heaviest scenes in the TS2010 built-in content, and you're still getting what looks to be somewhere up around 3k draw distance? That's a far cry from "I can never see above 1000M no matter the distance".

Happens on every route, can upload a lighter route if you wish, this is just the main route i want to play + another route in that video.

I meant Basic Trainz plus the Service packs :S, as for the trees and such i've been on the help-desk since January.

As for the nothing on screen apart from the UI, no scenery land rails running in the air (Perception), no idea why it didnt happen normally does. But i only try the game once a month just to see if anything new is out, etc. As i get so irritated with the random graphical bugs randomness.

An example with textures and nothing else bar a bush (Rooting through old screen shots)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3036/unnamed201001110004.jpg

Seems like the fully disappeared screenshots have been deleted of image-shack, non the less the helpdesk already has them.

Im just asking for help/contributing to the thread, not trying to cause any offence or anything.

 

[WindWalkr]

True, but I may be able to remove 8 out of the 10 worst offenders. Some indication of how bad an item is, and why it's bad (polys, texture size, material count, etc) would be massively helpful.

One workaround here might be to uninstall or break the worst offender temporarily, so that Surveyor will show you the second-worst offender. It's obviously not a complete solution, but if you're trying to optimise a specific route then it can be a worthwhile technique.

chris

 

[WindWalkr]

An example with textures and nothing else bar a bush (Rooting through old screen shots)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3036/unnamed201001110004.jpg

Okay, this looks like, and I'm just guessing here, that your PC is running out of virtual memory space for some reason. This isn't at all related to the draw distance limits - it's simply unable to bring any new objects into the scene because there's no available RAM. Why this might be happening on your PC is something that I can't easily answer. It's feasible that you have some settings, drivers, or software that is consuming memory from Trainz' virtual memory space. One workaround might be to activate the /3GB switch but I'd only recommend attempting that if you really know your way around your computer.

chris

 

[Tidgney]

Sorry if this is off topic now.

Its the only program on my machine which has any problem and i have 20-30 games on here, simulators to RTS's

What can i do from here then?

I've been on the help desk since January and its been over 3 months since the last response.

 

[CAB]

... ... ...

 

[CAB]

Hi everyone,

I'am not very happy with this discussion. From my side, and I think a lot of other users have more basic priorities.

I'am not interesting to view up to 5000m distance definetely. I have brought the 3D game to play at first and not to make large distance screenhots of my personal interest permanetely. "Trainz is not a Hello Kitty Photobucket Tool".

"I want a stable and (jerky and choppy free) performance, with at last a minimum of 30 FPS at perhaps realistic 1000m" If some wants more then he have to pay for simply, with better hardware or anything is related to.

Limiter: From what I see on dense areas, the limiter cause very heavy shuttering effetcs, while driving or moving inside a vehicle. So I already suggested to extend the DrwDist Setup to 500m 750m. I would recommendet to disable the limiter at lower distances eg. 500m 750m or 1000m.

We also allow "backdrop" billboards which extend out to 15km which can be used to good effect to make the draw distance appear greater in some cases

+ Would you explain us what is required in the config to get this "backdrop" billboards to work?
+ Would it possioble to reenable to existing option NoFog 1 on the billboard assets?



Kind regards
Cab