TrainzDEM Done It!

[steamboateng]

I have just completed loading a new route into my T2010. The entire route was generated in TransDEM and exported to Trainz via TrainzDEM. The route includes UTM objects containing usgs map data. The map data is from 1940's usgs 7.5 minute map quadrangles. The map data follows the generated route and includes sidings, yards, and facilities.
The route is the complete Boston & Maine (now defunct; lives on as Guilford) trackage in NE Massachusetts. It runs E to Rockland, N to Andover, NW to Lowell, SW to Lexington and Concord, with Boston at the SE corner. The total trackage is about 150 miles. The Trainz route, at its extremes, is 122 base boards North to South, and 99 base boards East to West. It contains 1,210 UTM map tiles. The entire route was exported (as 5 meter grid) into Trainz at one shot. For interested Trainzers, I have included the following data:
DEM model size in Trainz: 279 Mb
UTM objects: 44.1 Mb
Total install: 323 Mb
TrainzDEM converted the DEM data to Trainz in about 4.5 min.
TrainzDEM converted UTM data to Trainz in about 13 Min.
TS2010 imported the entire route in 7 min.
Surveyor loads the entire route in several seconds.

I understand that processing and loading times will vary with individual computer specs and OS. FYI I am running Win7 (64) with an i7 quad core processor, clocked @ 3.99 GHz.

I have posted this data to give interested Trainzers an idea of the capabilities of TransDEM. And no, geophil didn't pay me to post it!

 

[belgian46]

I have just completed loading a new route into my T2010. The entire route was generated in TransDEM and exported to Trainz via TrainzDEM. The route includes UTM objects containing usgs map data. The map data is from 1940's usgs 7.5 minute map quadrangles. The map data follows the generated route and includes sidings, yards, and facilities.
The route is the complete Boston & Maine (now defunct; lives on as Guilford) trackage in NE Massachusetts. It runs E to Rockland, N to Andover, NW to Lowell, SW to Lexington and Concord, with Boston at the SE corner. The total trackage is about 150 miles. The Trainz route, at its extremes, is 122 base boards North to South, and 99 base boards East to West. It contains 1,210 UTM map tiles. The entire route was exported (as 5 meter grid) into Trainz at one shot. For interested Trainzers, I have included the following data:
DEM model size in Trainz: 279 Mb
UTM objects: 44.1 Mb
Total install: 323 Mb
TrainzDEM converted the DEM data to Trainz in about 4.5 min.
TrainzDEM converted UTM data to Trainz in about 13 Min.
TS2010 imported the entire route in 7 min.
Surveyor loads the entire route in several seconds.

I understand that processing and loading times will vary with individual computer specs and OS. FYI I am running Win7 (64) with an i7 quad core processor, clocked @ 3.99 GHz.

I have posted this data to give interested Trainzers an idea of the capabilities of TransDEM. And no, geophil didn't pay me to post it!

Hello Steamboateng.

Always nice to know, how many baseboards can be created by using Transdem.

I would like to create the complete Belgian railroadtrack with transdem

My pc has an intel core 2 quad 8400 2,66 ghz - mem 6 gb .



Best regards

Kurt :wave:

 

[geophil]

[Somewhat off-topic]

TrainzDEM converted the DEM data to Trainz in about 4.5 min.
TrainzDEM converted UTM data to Trainz in about 13 Min.

There is still room for improvement. Future versions of TransDEM will hopefully see more parallelization. Currently, TransDEM employs a temporary background worker thread for some computation-intensive operations which can only keep two CPU cores busy. It's also suitable for just a few functions.

More efficient parallelization has to take a different approach: parallel loops. And it should not require much change in the source code. The recent extensions to the C++ language (C++11), with lambda expressions and the enhanced Standard Template Library on the one hand side and the MS Concurrency Runtime on the other hand should make this possible. While the former is all vendor independent standard, the latter is MS proprietary, but appears to be a very elegant addition to C++11.

In the end, computation-intensive loops like converting a map to UTM or saving a georeferenced map with its optimised colour lookup table will make use of all available CPU cores of modern PCs and definitely raise the temperature inside the cabinet.

 

[steamboateng]

Well, Dr. Z, I am mighty pleased with the program to date. I have saved the DEM's and georeferenced usgs quads for future use. As large as the route is, it appears that, at least in TransDEM, it can be expanded still more. The program, as it stands is a fine one, no coughs or hiccups. It handled the entire route, as I added to it piece by piece, with no problems at all. Looking forward to your upgrades.

Belgian46, my coclusion is that a stable OS and a good computer can much enhance the TransDEM experience. At present I see no limitations within TransDEM for route size. Nor do I see any limitations on generating route data for Trainz. I supose there are practical limitations within Trainz.

 

[steamboateng]

Well, Dr. Z, I am mighty pleased with the program to date. I have saved the DEM's and georeferenced usgs quads for future use. As large as the route is, it appears that, at least in TransDEM, it can be expanded still more. The program, as it stands is a fine one, no coughs or hiccups. It handled the entire route, as I added to it piece by piece, with no problems at all. Looking forward to your upgrades.

Belgian46, my coclusion is that a stable OS and a good computer can much enhance the TransDEM experience. At present I see no limitations within TransDEM for route size. Nor do I see any limitations on generating route data for Trainz. I supose there are practical limitations within Trainz.

 

[steamboateng]

Well, Dr. Z, I am mighty pleased with the program to date. I have saved the DEM's and georeferenced usgs quads for future use. As large as the route is, it appears that, at least in TransDEM, it can be expanded still more. The program, as it stands is a fine one, no coughs or hiccups. It handled the entire route, as I added to it piece by piece, with no problems at all. Looking forward to your upgrades.

Belgian46, my coclusion is that a stable OS and a good computer can much enhance the TransDEM experience. At present I see no limitations within TransDEM for route size. Nor do I see any limitations on generating route data for Trainz. I supose there are practical limitations within Trainz.

 

[steamboateng]

Please excuse multiple postins. The 3pm schoolboy rush slowed Forums to a crawl!

 

[Thai1On]

Hi Steamboat, the only problem I had wasn't with TransDEM but with Trainz import. As you know I'm working on a big map and I had to feed it into Trainz piece by piece. For some reason Trainz can't handle large maps all at once

Count yourself lucky if you don't have to cross any UTM zone lines (I think that's right) as it requires a few extra steps but Dr. Z walked me through it. My route crossed zone 17 and 16 three times but TransDEM knitted them together seamlessly! I can't imagine not have TransDEM after using it and for a freelance route based on real places it's a must.

Now back to fixing the grades on the mainline east of Levi.:hehe:


Dave

 

[steamboateng]

Yeah, I have a tendency to stick closer to my native UTM zone these last 10 years or so. It's the Chief Mates wish...........not permitted to cross UTM zones anymore, without her attendence..............

 

[backyard]

One more time...

Well, Dr. Z, I am mighty pleased with the program to date. I have saved the DEM's and georeferenced USGS quads for future use. As large as the route is, it appears that, at least in TransDEM, it can be expanded still more. The program, as it stands is a fine one, no coughs or hiccups. It handled the entire route, as I added to it piece by piece, with no problems at all. Looking forward to your upgrades.

Belgian46, my conclusion is that a stable OS and a good computer can much enhance the TransDEM experience. At present I see no limitations within TransDEM for route size. Nor do I see any limitations on generating route data for Trainz. I suppose there are practical limitations within Trainz.

Ole' Steamer, you don't have to save the route...these DEM downloads are public domain so they will not go away...they are being constantly reprocessed (interpolated) for clarity and definition.

When you open the .zip file and unpack, you have duplicated quite a bit of information. Then you make a map. That means four times the size of the original download at least!

I unpack and immediately delete the .zip, process and delete the folder, save the Metadata file for location and arc/sec reference and delete the processed file after importing into Content Manager Plus. I always download the same file anyway when needed to get the latest version.

I am glad you like TransDEM, it has become quite a hobby for me!

Also thanks for the thread, Roland's update is an inspiration for all 3rd Party Content Creators for N3V Auran Trainz!

 

[steamboateng]

Well, I don't know if it's an issue, but I had to georeference 21 usgs quad maps to the TransDEM generated DEM model. Generating the DEM was relatively easy; but noting usgs map data, coordinate points and georeferencing, then saving in UTM format was a bit of a chore. The usgs 'historic' maps were all referenced to a specific DEM in TransDEM. I can undertand that once georeferenced to a DEM, and converted to UTM format, they should be avilable to any future DEM maps of the same area. I still don't know if this so, and I just can't throw away several weeks of processing.

 

[backyard]

way different...

It sounds like you got the 1/3 arc/sec DEM's from the National Map...1/9th are so resolute that the memory demand makes it harder than it should be, anyway the 1/9-arc/sec maps are limited in availability.

The MS-Research website still downloads Topo maps, georeferencing US-American data is just another way to do...

You have to use the Simple route editor for directing the map downloads, I use the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, Railroad Regions for the correct placement, ms-Snipping Tool to copy that & draw the route. I redraw one map each side of the first downloads.

I use a map size of 2000x2000, a scale of 20,000 and Global scale of 10,000. This uses quite a lot of memory in the development, Dr. Ziegler recommends a scale of 30,000 to save memory, however the resolution of the map is so good I just stay with what I found.

You can change the Topo maps to an older version if the rail route is abandoned and not displayed.

 

[steamboateng]

Yes, the NED data was 1/3 arc-sec. When I first started the route I tried to get 1/9 arc-sec data. Unfortunately, none is available for the area I'm modeling at this time. I have the memory to handle the data, and I wish I could get it. Probably in another year or two usgs will come through?
1/9 arc sec data would have saved a lot of time route building; smoother and more accurate roadbed, cuts and fills, etc. As it is, I have to refer to the quad maps to define the roadbed with any accuracy, and roadbed hights and grades are still somewhat of a guess!
As far as NED data downloads go, I do delete them. Only takes a few minutes to grab a dowload from the NED server, and as you say, data is always being updated. I'm looking into the sources you referenced, but I fear no joy, as I prefer to model railroading as it was 60-70 years ago. A great deal of trackage has dissappeared in this area since then.
I grabbed several maps of the Hoosac Tunnel area, circa 1944, and am looking at modeling that line from Albany, NY to Springfield, Mass. Milage-wise it's half the trackage of my recent route, and fairly direct. An interesting history and an interesting route.
Regards

 

[belgian46]

Well, Dr. Z, I am mighty pleased with the program to date. I have saved the DEM's and georeferenced usgs quads for future use. As large as the route is, it appears that, at least in TransDEM, it can be expanded still more. The program, as it stands is a fine one, no coughs or hiccups. It handled the entire route, as I added to it piece by piece, with no problems at all. Looking forward to your upgrades.

Belgian46, my coclusion is that a stable OS and a good computer can much enhance the TransDEM experience. At present I see no limitations within TransDEM for route size. Nor do I see any limitations on generating route data for Trainz. I supose there are practical limitations within Trainz.

Hello steamboateng.

If I would like to create the complete Belgian railwaynet with Transdem, then Transdem would have to create a lot of baseboards

EW 363, NS 313

I tried it, using using win 7 - intel core 2 quad 8400 2,66 ghz - mem 6 gb and an error was received at the end.

Errors writing file. Errors writing section to .gnd file .

I was able to create half of the Belgian railwaynet with Transdem.

baseboards EW 182 - NS 205

Best regards

Kurt :wave:

 

[geophil]

With 6GB of main memory I assume you run 64bit Windows. In this case the TransDEM process can allocate up to 4GB.

All geo data loaded in TransDEM resides in process memory, TransDEM does not swap out.

Vector data takes the least and can most often be disregarded (memory-wise).

DEMs are different. Here it all depends on raster width. European SRTM in 3 arc sec are harmless. 1 arc sec would be 9 times as much, 1/3 arc sec 81 times and 1/9 arc sec 720 times as much!!!

Finally raster maps and/or aerial images. as long as there are not rendered, TransDEM retains them in compressed mode (more correctly MS GDI+ does this for TransDEM). Number of clippings and size in pixels is important, not scale.

However, when it comes to exporting to Trainz, additional memory is required for this task. This could be quite a lot. It depends on the overall amount of data currently loaded, the size of the project and the extent of the export mask. If no more memory is available, TransDEM will receive a memory allocation exception and will issue an error message.

Therefore I always recommend to build smaller modules and merge in Trainz Surveyor. It's best for TransDEM to keep all data in memory and it's best for Surveyor to swap out a lot of data, particularly ground file baseboards.

 

[steamboateng]

Thanks, guys. Your comments are very helpful in this discussion. We can get a better idea of how much trainz we can fit into a imported route.

 

[belgian46]

With 6GB of main memory I assume you run 64bit Windows. In this case the TransDEM process can allocate up to 4GB.

All geo data loaded in TransDEM resides in process memory, TransDEM does not swap out.

Vector data takes the least and can most often be disregarded (memory-wise).

DEMs are different. Here it all depends on raster width. European SRTM in 3 arc sec are harmless. 1 arc sec would be 9 times as much, 1/3 arc sec 81 times and 1/9 arc sec 720 times as much!!!

Finally raster maps and/or aerial images. as long as there are not rendered, TransDEM retains them in compressed mode (more correctly MS GDI+ does this for TransDEM). Number of clippings and size in pixels is important, not scale.

However, when it comes to exporting to Trainz, additional memory is required for this task. This could be quite a lot. It depends on the overall amount of data currently loaded, the size of the project and the extent of the export mask. If no more memory is available, TransDEM will receive a memory allocation exception and will issue an error message.

Therefore I always recommend to build smaller modules and merge in Trainz Surveyor. It's best for TransDEM to keep all data in memory and it's best for Surveyor to swap out a lot of data, particularly ground file baseboards.

Hello Roland,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes indeed, I'm using the win 7 64-bit version.

I wanted to know what my current pc-configuration was capable of doing if I wanted to create the complete Belgian railwaynet by using Transdem.

Up to now, I can create half of the Belgian railwaynet. I would like to have a least 3/4 of the railwaynet, because I want to keep the merging option to a strict minimum.

Best regards

Kurt :wave:

 

[belgian46]

Hello,

I continued my search and hooray ( :clap: ) , Transdem succeeded in creating the complete Belgian railwaynet ( baseboards are 355 EW, 300 NS ).

So I quickly wanted to import the content into Trainz2010.

The content had a size of nearly 4gb.

Unfortunately, a taddaemon.exe error popped-up saying taddaemon had encountered a problem and needs to close. The report contained 3 files ( registry.txt, errorlog.txt, crash.dmp ).

Extract from the errorlog.txt

taddaemon caused a Microsoft C++ Exception (0xe06d7363)
in module kernel32.dll at 001b:7c812aeb

I tried the same with a content size of nearly 2gb and received the same error.

It seems that content manager can handle content size of about 500MB, depending on the pc-configuration.

I tried both content import using OS WinXP sp3 and Win 7 and with both OS I had the taddaemon error popping up.

Back to the drawingboard.

Best regards

Kurt :wave:

 

[Thai1On]

Kurt, you have run into the same problem I did, the dreaded TADDAEMON. TransDEM can handle the big maps but it seems Trainz can't :'( The work around that worked for me was to make smaller maps and fit them together in Trainz.

It took me weeks to get where I am now (210 miles of track) and once I finish my second mainline I have another 50 miles of maps to make for the southern side of my route and 100 miles of maps on the northern side of the route. Best of luck.

Dave

 

[RoysTrainz]

Kurt this is an N-VA problem

you cannot export entire 4 gb into 2010. It would not make sense too practically as you want to work in map sizes around 1-1.5 gb more than big enough and join them detailed at the very end of your project.
By the way i did not see if the export was plain transdem without any trainz stuff still strange the 2Gb not worked as i did export bigger (2GB files in win 64 bit)ones incl trainz stuff to 2010 and 12 but i have to remember how i did it exactly which is a bigger problem, i just do things without log.
Also Kurt Transdem is sensitive to regional problems on location and you might want to try to make a Flemish N-E-W region and a S-E-W Wallone region and when finished fit them together than you have a perfect Belgian map that taddeamon would accept.:hehe:
Again 1 to 1.5 gb nice size to work with and fit them later in one big map.

Roy