HoTT Junction Control- kuid 9999:61004. Should be in your 2012 cm.
Trainz derailment
- Thread starter ffccnn
- Start date
HoTT Junction Control- kuid 9999:61004. Should be in your 2012 cm.
Hi JCitron,
please take a look at this video, it is a bird view in surveyor of the section of track causing derailment. Hope you would see something to help fix this ugly problem.
trouble-maker junctions are #2146 & 6874
thanks in advance.
(video almost ready, pls wait a minute)
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Actually, I just recently patched up to 61388 and now have the same problem as described by the OP. On a WIP route was testing signals and routed an AI train to a refuge loop equipped with catch points at the loop entrance, meaning two switches for the AI train to negotiate before being in the clear. A derailment in the same spot, same consist, and I became concerned. The second switch is being thrown before the train has cleared the main, casing a derailment of the rear two wagons. I don't actually use driver much, preferring to start and scrap routes in a never-ending cycle, but I do have enough experience to note that this behaviour is unusual, and it is a recent occurrence.
I am using a junction link object, as in the area I have several switches that need to be thrown together; crossovers catch-points and the like. I do wonder if the problem would be alleviated by unlinking the junctions? will have to test and see.
Matt.
Hi,
Looks like you've been through the mill. As I mentioned before, I laid out a similar piece of track just as your video shows; tried different tracks, different switches, various signals, long and short trains and didn't find any problems whatsoever. I am running TS12 with Build 58414 and have not upgraded to the latest patches as yet (I'll wait until they are automatic). What version are you using? Have you downloaded any 'obsoletes' on the DLS? Was this your own layout design or was it a 'download'? If it's your own, try a new 'dummy' route to see if it still happens. If it's a downloaded layout, I'd scrap it and look for something better. Don't waste your time. I believe if it can't be fixed, (it must be a bug) delete it and start again. Good luck.
Roy3b3 -New Era Backer & Collector
Looks like you've been through the mill. As I mentioned before, I laid out a similar piece of track just as your video shows; tried different tracks, different switches, various signals, long and short trains and didn't find any problems whatsoever. I am running TS12 with Build 58414 and have not upgraded to the latest patches as yet (I'll wait until they are automatic). What version are you using? Have you downloaded any 'obsoletes' on the DLS? Was this your own layout design or was it a 'download'? If it's your own, try a new 'dummy' route to see if it still happens. If it's a downloaded layout, I'd scrap it and look for something better. Don't waste your time. I believe if it can't be fixed, (it must be a bug) delete it and start again. Good luck.
Roy3b3 -New Era Backer & Collector
Hi Roy,
I am running TS12 patch 61388. I started this map from scratch and I checked all my assets and they are not obsolete nor faulty. I saw some faulty assets in someone's maps like invalid wav files so I don't use any of those in my own routes.
I am waiting for JCitron who mentioned he saw something with my signals, I hope he would find something. I am stuck with this map, I don't want to continue improving it until I get a fix for the derailment problem. Very disappointing issue.
Hey Matt,
Wow! I am not the only one having this nasty derailment problem. That may confirm we have a bug with the signaling system. You can't imaging the number of hours I spent trying to figure it out.
Does N3V have something to say about it? are they listening?
Looks like you don't want to use the HOTT points. You should, if any, just to see what happens. Now, try to turn around the last car and repeat the test (I mean, change the orientation of it). Try to use a car with two axle, run a loco with only one car, then use 2 and 4 axle car. About the junction links: Yes, they will cause this problem, but if you carefully set things and just for the test, deactivate them, you will be able to find if this is caused by it. Another peculiarity I found is that the points change to default after the last car passes, sometimes before, making the derailment; So, what is a default? Lets say the original session is set for the point to be to the right. A consist controlled by AI comes and is directed to go left, and the last car derails. So, before the consist arrives you change the points so that now they are set to let, and he consist passes and it does not derail! That could be a half solution, but since the points in question are controlled by AI, another consist before changed them to another direction! and you are unaware of it... the bottom line here is that the points should not change after a consist passes, and if they must do, have a little delay to allow for the last car safe passing over them. Is that so hard to do?
I forgot to mention: I tried several signal combinations Nohing! it still happens. I had this problem since 04. So it has nothing to do with the latest patches and all that pandemonium. I second what ffccnn said... Is N3V seeing all this? At least a statement saying "we are aware and looking into it" would relieve the pressure down here.., yes?
@N3V
if you observe carefully the many videos I have posted, it is clear that the switch changes in the middle of the last car. Unfortunately the implementation in class JunctionBase is native code:
public native void ToggleJunction(void);
I can't suggest anything because there is no code available. Could it be possible that a trigger assigned to the junction has a short activation length that may cause the junction to flip too soon? or is the length of the passing train measured shorter than it should be?
We need N3V to look into this problem asap. And yes, as Llebrez mentioned, at least N3V should say something.
if you observe carefully the many videos I have posted, it is clear that the switch changes in the middle of the last car. Unfortunately the implementation in class JunctionBase is native code:
public native void ToggleJunction(void);
I can't suggest anything because there is no code available. Could it be possible that a trigger assigned to the junction has a short activation length that may cause the junction to flip too soon? or is the length of the passing train measured shorter than it should be?
We need N3V to look into this problem asap. And yes, as Llebrez mentioned, at least N3V should say something.
Good luck! got my route? if so please let me know of missing assets if any.
840 odd mb on dls.
102 unknown kuids but unless it's track or points it doesn't matter.
The 2 switches-2146 and 8804 (for my route it's 6862).
Charlie derailed as he does with you, both switches.
So I set them towards the forestry pick up, Charlie went in got the logs etc. While he running round I set them against him. Switches changed as they should and out he went, no derail.
You have a consist just before the forestry, manually drove that in. The switch 2146 unlocked after 5 wagons (which is why you derail), also when going away from the forestry it doesn't lock until 2 wagons have passed over.
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Glad to hear you were able to reproduce the derailment problem in your system. It may confirm that my system is not at fault.
I don't know what else to try next. Maybe changing the layout in that area to avoid the diverging paths causing the derailments. However, it could be a waste of time -- just moving the problem somewhere else, no way I can avoid diverging paths which is the essence of railroading. Crap! I am stuck this with sucker game.
Do what I did, try setting the switches towards the forestry. Goes in ok and comes out ok. Just keep an eye on the next consist to go through the switches which doesn't go to the forestry. There was only Charlie's train moving so you can forget another consist taking control of the switch.
I did flip the switch so the path is now towards the forestry. (I deleted Charlie'd train that was close by for quit testing).
Then the 1st train to come was a passenger train (1 loco + 4 cars) that flipped the switch to go the diverging path away from the forestry. (see video).
No derailment since I know it happens mainly to larger trains. However, observe that the switch is flipping too soon and the train luckily passes all right.
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On returning, the passenger train met the forestry train on the main line, the passanger train got first to the main line and then the forestry train left the main line into the branch and BOOM! derailment. see video.
This is not a solution to the real problem. I am not going to flip the switch on the main line because it is the main line! where larger trains are passing by.
This is not a solution to the real problem. I am not going to flip the switch on the main line because it is the main line! where larger trains are passing by.
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Had a go with the area, replaced all signals with safetrain ones.
NS 05 before jnct 2386 (before 2146). An 04 before 8800 (I shortened the loop by 50yards or so as well). NS 05 before 8794. C light 08 before jnct to forestry. Replaced track from forestry jnct to the single track (to cucata maybe). An 04 just before the forestry.
13 40 foot boxcars and 5 4 bay hoppers now go all junctions to the forestry. Put 7 tankers on the rear and junctions through to Cucata were cleared (twice).
No idea how or why it works but it does.
NS 05 before jnct 2386 (before 2146). An 04 before 8800 (I shortened the loop by 50yards or so as well). NS 05 before 8794. C light 08 before jnct to forestry. Replaced track from forestry jnct to the single track (to cucata maybe). An 04 just before the forestry.
13 40 foot boxcars and 5 4 bay hoppers now go all junctions to the forestry. Put 7 tankers on the rear and junctions through to Cucata were cleared (twice).
No idea how or why it works but it does.
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I would love to see what you did. Could you please send back the map to me?
I like very much Safetran signals and I want to better use/understand them.
thanks.
Sent my version back to you. It will need tidying up, I only got it working.
As I said I've no idea why it works, the signals may be incorrect for the junctions but I'm not a purist. Leave the switch towards the forestry, works fine with trains (22+ wagons) towards Cucato. That reminds me, the stub at Cucato used for running round needs extending, to short for a dash9 .
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